T Nation

The Corporation

Just watched this movie and i highly recommend it.

I found it to be real eye opener. I found it quite distressing and at the same time uplifting, in that it is we that are part of the problem because we contribute to the profits of unethical companies. So it is we who can choose not to use them and ultimately stop the rot.

However the sheer number of corporations that do more harm than good is so high, and they are so pervasive, that it is a real ball ache to avoid buying their products!

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that movie was a load of crap. It just follows the Michael Moore format but even less responsible in its reporting – just pick out the bad apples and then hold them up as representative of all of corporate america. Plus the movie ignores the concept of free will and choice, lambasting companies for their practices but ignoring the complicity of the consumer in many of the problems. And the movie offers no alternative.

If corporations are so bad, what’s the alternative? I guess we have to wait for the sequel huh? Also, kind of ironic that the movie was produced and distributed by a “corporation,” shown in a theater run by a gigantic “corporation” and probably the majority of the people in the theater with me work for a “corporation.” And im sure the filmmakers weren’t complaining when they were cashing their paychecks. Puh lease.

[quote]robo1 wrote:
that movie was a load of crap. It just follows the Michael Moore format but even less responsible in its reporting – just pick out the bad apples and then hold them up as representative of all of corporate america. Plus the movie ignores the concept of free will and choice, lambasting companies for their practices but ignoring the complicity of the consumer in many of the problems. And the movie offers no alternative.

If corporations are so bad, what’s the alternative? I guess we have to wait for the sequel huh? Also, kind of ironic that the movie was produced and distributed by a “corporation,” shown in a theater run by a gigantic “corporation” and probably the majority of the people in the theater with me work for a “corporation.” And im sure the filmmakers weren’t complaining when they were cashing their paychecks. Puh lease. [/quote]

I disagree. It was not a load of crap. Yes it was VERY bias but a film like that needed to be made. Having watched it at least the viewer goes away appreciating the consequences of capitalism and consumerism etc.

I mean, do Nike really need to be exploiting workers to that extent? Do i really need to look cool when the consequence is that some poor bastard 8 year old kid worked a 14 hour day in some sweatshop getting paid a bowl of rice a day? That to me is ridiculous. How rich do the CEO’s really need to be?

I also work for a corporation. The biggest electricity supplier in the UK. What is the alternative? I don’t know.

I do agree that Michael Moore is a bit of a dick.

[quote]robo1 wrote:
Plus the movie ignores the concept of free will and choice, lambasting companies for their practices but ignoring the complicity of the consumer in many of the problems.[/quote]

It does not ignore that particular concept. In fact in the conclusion, that is the message.

The alternative to “the corporation” is “the government”. Throughout human history, it has not worked well in providing goods and services to its customers.

DB

[quote]AdamC wrote:

I mean, do Nike really need to be exploiting workers to that extent? Do i really need to look cool when the consequence is that some poor bastard 8 year old kid worked a 14 hour day in some sweatshop getting paid a bowl of rice a day? That to me is ridiculous. How rich do the CEO’s really need to be?

[/quote]

This kid could also prostitute itself or starve.

They seem to prefer making shoes.

The “consequences” of capitalism?

You are a college kid, aren’t you?

The “consequences” of capitalism are evil things like better medicine, better technology, MONEY, a job that your mom and dad can work at to pay for your tuition, and the ability to become an entrepreneur.

[quote]AdamC wrote:
Having watched it at least the viewer goes away appreciating the consequences of capitalism and consumerism etc.
[/quote]
No they don’t. they got 1 side of the argument. Capitalism and consumerism go hand in hand. These corporations wouldn’t exist or at least wouldn’t be as powerful without the the complicity of the consumer.

[quote]AdamC wrote:
I mean, do Nike really need to be exploiting workers to that extent? Do i really need to look cool when the consequence is that some poor bastard 8 year old kid worked a 14 hour day in some sweatshop getting paid a bowl of rice a day?
[/quote]

Then why do people continue to buy nike shoes? Seriously. Im not trying to be sarcastic. There are alternative shoes out there that aren’t stitched by children making pennies a day. But people keep buying nikes so nike will keep making them. the consumer provides nike with no incentive to stop what its doing.

[quote]AdamC wrote:
How rich do the CEO’s really need to be?
[/quote]

As rich as they want to be. It called a free economy. That’s the beauty of this country is that in theory there are no limits on what you can achieve. even if that achievement is solely material why should you be the judge of what someone else values. Having the government tell me what im allowed to make is kind of a scary thought. Corporations have shareholders. Much of the ceo pay issue lies in the failure of the shareholders and the board to be more vocal in questioning these contracts

[quote]AdamC wrote:
I also work for a corporation. The biggest electricity supplier in the UK. What is the alternative? I don’t know.
[/quote]

Sure you do. The guy I bought my house from last year was selling it so he could go live out on a commune somewhere in rural Maryland and do whatever it is hippies do on communes. I met a guy who gave up a high-paying white collar job to grow grapes. I know a couple who haven’t spent a single day working for a corporation. They jump around from various nonprofits doing whatever advocacy it is they do and have found a way to put food on the table doing it. We all make choices. Working for a big corporation is usually the easier choice.

the movie made corporations out like they are these evil runaway creatures wreaking havoc across the globe. Yes money will always be there no. 1 objective, but don’t kid your self, money is pretty much everyone’s no. 1 objective. Corporations have just fine tuned the process.

[quote]AdamC wrote:
I do agree that Michael Moore is a bit of a dick.
[/quote]

ok. well you’re not all that bad then.

[quote]orion wrote:

They seem to prefer making shoes.[/quote]

As if they have a choice whether they make shoes or prostitute themselves…the ones with fast fingers stitch, the ones that can’t stitch…?

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[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:

They seem to prefer making shoes.

As if they have a choice whether they make shoes or prostitute themselves…the ones with fast fingers stitch, the ones that can’t stitch…?
[/quote]

Are finding work in another multi-nationals “sweat shop”.

More sweat shops, more choice, less sucking dick for money by half-starved children.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:

They seem to prefer making shoes.

As if they have a choice whether they make shoes or prostitute themselves…the ones with fast fingers stitch, the ones that can’t stitch…?
[/quote]

How is it the evil corporations’ fault that the only choice is between making shoes and prostitution? Seems to me if the evil corp wasn’t making shoes there - choice would not exist.

Not sure you’re blaming the corps - but it seems that the OP is.

[quote]Mick28 wrote:
AdamC wrote:

Do i really need to look cool when the consequence is that some poor bastard 8 year old kid worked a 14 hour day in some sweatshop getting paid a bowl of rice a day? That to me is ridiculous. How rich do the CEO’s really need to be?

Just exactly how gullible are you? Don’t answer that question. Answer this one instead: do you attend college?

I’d like to see some proof of that kid you are referring to. If you have the facts present them. If you don’t stop drinking the koolaide served from the lunatic left.

By the way, how much CEO’s make depends upon how much that they’re boards and shareholders allow them to make.

I hope that doesn’t confuse you, or throw a monkey wrench in your little your little fantasy world.

[/quote]

Oh come on. I wasn’t being literal but you get my point. And, believe it or not i DO live in the real world. Nike are blatantly exploitative.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
orion wrote:

They seem to prefer making shoes.

As if they have a choice whether they make shoes or prostitute themselves…the ones with fast fingers stitch, the ones that can’t stitch…?

How is it the evil corporations’ fault that the only choice is between making shoes and prostitution? Seems to me if the evil corp wasn’t making shoes there - choice would not exist.

Not sure you’re blaming the corps - but it seems that the OP is. [/quote]

You are right. It is not the corporations fault. But is it not as fair argument that they are taking advantage of the fact that their employees are often desperate poor people, by treating them in a way that they would NEVER get away with in the US? Nike don’t go their thinking “Oh lets help these poor people.”

Their motivation is 100% $$$. Fair enough, that is what it’s all about. But as a human being you have to consider the fact that it’s just not right and not necessary. I mean, i’m not against capitalism but you can do it in an ethical way.

[quote]rainjack wrote:
The “consequences” of capitalism are evil things like better medicine, better technology, MONEY, a job that your mom and dad can work at to pay for your tuition, and the ability to become an entrepreneur.
[/quote]

Capitalism has its bad points as well. It just so happens that it beats the hell out of the alternatives.

[quote]robo1 wrote:
AdamC wrote:
Having watched it at least the viewer goes away appreciating the consequences of capitalism and consumerism etc.

No they don’t. they got 1 side of the argument. Capitalism and consumerism go hand in hand. These corporations wouldn’t exist or at least wouldn’t be as powerful without the the complicity of the consumer.
[/quote]

Yes the film would have been far better if more balanced. But like I said, it raise awareness and it is for the viewer to go away and decide if the negative impacts are worth the positives.

I’m not disagreeing with you on this. People will keep buying Nike because people are people, they can be selfish, vain and ignorant…and ignorance is bliss. I am not judging because i am as guilty as any.

Yes I am being judgmental here. I guess I just don’t think you really need ALL that money when it comes at great expense to others. But where do you draw the line?

It’s like I see Brad Pitt advertising watches, and I just think “is that really necessary?” I remember a quote from Sean Penn with regards to actors and advertising/making shitty films that went something like “I know everyone has to pay the bills, but maybe you should cut down on the size of your bills” Yes you probably think he’s a liberal fuckwit but he had a point.

I find your ideas intriguing, and i’d like to subscribe to your newsletter.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
rainjack wrote:
The “consequences” of capitalism are evil things like better medicine, better technology, MONEY, a job that your mom and dad can work at to pay for your tuition, and the ability to become an entrepreneur.

Capitalism has its bad points as well. It just so happens that it beats the hell out of the alternatives.[/quote]

Come on Neph, we all know Communism is the way to go.

[quote]AdamC wrote:

You are right. It is not the corporations fault. But is it not as fair argument that they are taking advantage of the fact that their employees are often desperate poor people, by treating them in a way that they would NEVER get away with in the US? Nike don’t go their thinking “Oh lets help these poor people.”

Their motivation is 100% $$$. Fair enough, that is what it’s all about. But as a human being you have to consider the fact that it’s just not right and not necessary.
[/quote]

Name anytime in history when progress was first weighed against possible human benefit, or lack thereof. You can’t. It’s all about greed. You will never take that out of the human condition.

Who the fuck gives a shit about fair? IS it fair that, without thee jobs, the kids would be forced into prostitution? Is it fair that the american worker is so grossly overpaid for his union scale job, that businesses are finding it much cheaper to go overseas for their labor?

Join the real world, sparky - they don’t call it “dog eat dog” for nothing.

[quote]nephorm wrote:
rainjack wrote:
The “consequences” of capitalism are evil things like better medicine, better technology, MONEY, a job that your mom and dad can work at to pay for your tuition, and the ability to become an entrepreneur.

Capitalism has its bad points as well. It just so happens that it beats the hell out of the alternatives.[/quote]

I think that capitalism has significantly less bad points than is commonly believed.

Too often things that happen in every system, the facts that life sucks sometimes and that nothing comes without hard work are being seen as the problems of capitalism.