T Nation

The Complexes of Waterbury & Cosgrove

Hi,

Started a new routine today, inspired by many coaches…seems when your losing fat and protect muscle mass you have to train for strenght.So today after my strenght session i performed this complexes;

-Bentover row
-Uprightrow
-Military press
-Good morning
-Lunges(alternate legs)
-Back squat push press combo
-Stiff leg deadlifts

all 8 reps each…about 2 min between each set…

My comments…wow, very demanding…

on the last one i used only 45pound barbell to complete it!

I will vary those with some circuit as designed by coach Thibs in Destroying fat articles.

My questions is for those who performed complexes before.

Did you perform them before or after workout. How many times a week ?? Also some suggestions are welcome!

thanks

anyone?

How does this pertain to bodybuilding? Bodybuilders do not do complexes, hence why you have not received a reply yet.

If you are just using the bar, this could be a warm up to get the blood flowing or a finisher at the end of the workout.

Cosgrove has an article on complexes search and use that routine. Sometimes a 10-20 minute set of complexes will wipe you out so that is all you do for that day, focus on strength another day.

Also check out Real Fast Fat loss by Waterbury and Cosgrove.

Complexex improve overall fitness which is what some bodybuilders like to do, improve fitness levels, instead of start internet forum arguments like bricknyce.

http://www.T-Nation.com/article/bodybuilding/complexes_for_fat_loss

It is not meant to stir arguments. Complexes belong in the strength and conditioning world as far as I am concerned. Which is why I have chosen to wage war on the S&C world, much of whom are giving out advice on how to get jacked. Meanwhile most of them, despite some being relatively strong, are not jacked and have not experienced bodybuilding themselves.

I used to do complexes as an alternative to HIIT.

I’d do them on my off days from lifting.

This is not a good way to keep your strength while you lose fat. To keep strength you should be training in the 1-3 rep range.

If you are calorie restricted, and not performing any heavy lifting you’ll probably lose quite a bit of muscle.

I use roids to maintain my strength… the ultimate technique in preserving muscle mass

JUST KIDDING!

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
It is not meant to stir arguments. Complexes belong in the strength and conditioning world as far as I am concerned. Which is why I have chosen to wage war on the S&C world, much of whom are giving out advice on how to get jacked. Meanwhile most of them, despite some being relatively strong, are not jacked and have not experienced bodybuilding themselves. [/quote]

This is that under/over-reactiction thing… First some people come using some Oly lifting mixed with kettlebells and tire flipping (on a BOSU ball of course) to get big, now seems that everybody in this forum is the other way around, and the only stuff that works is what pro bodybuilders do.

This forum dont seems to be about competitive bodybuilding, but bodybuilding in the sense of building muscle and losing fat, so if one thinks its a good tool for fat loss (or not)let them discuss it here.

On the question: while its not complexes, it follows the same logic, i’m now doing the meltdown training, and before the circuit i do deadlifts(working up to a heavy 5reps) one day, and bench and row(again 5reps) the other day. its enogh for me to keep strength, and it doesnt make me too tired for the meltdown circuts, i think this approach can work with complexes as well…

That’s Randy Couture’s complex he uses in training. He uses an olympic bar with a 25 on each side

I’ve done the Cosgrove complexes where you perform one rep of each exercise and do as many rounds as you can in 15 minutes. These are a crazy tough workout and like Otep I use them on my off days as substitutes for HIIT

I have done them and I have hurt myself doing them.

Choose your lifts carefully, I suggest avoiding olympic lifts because when you are tired you can hurt yourself even with a light weight.

I find running, jump rope and running hills gets me in better cardiovascular shape and cutting carbs is better for fat loss.

Time in the gym is a valuable commodity and I prefer to work on strength when I can.

Complexes are probably good for a wrestler or combat athlete due to the nature of the full body anaerobic demands of the sport.

Set your training up to hit your personal goals, I am sure CW and AC evaluate their clients needs before they have them do complexes.

I have tried Cosgrove-style complexes before. IMO, they are not suitable as exercises to “protect muscle mass” because they are simply not heavy enough. From a conditioning standpoint they definitely do kick your ass, but I didn’t see a big carryover to fatloss. However, I didn’t apply them in a systematic enough manner to make a hard judgement on their overall value.

i do them after boxing, but before bike sprints, 3 days a week. btw, you are supposed to still be lifting heavy along with doing the complexes.

[quote]Bricknyce wrote:
How does this pertain to bodybuilding? Bodybuilders do not do complexes, hence why you have not received a reply yet. [/quote]

I think a general fitness forum would have been a good idea and could have eliminated the need for T-Cell Alpha.

There really is no good place to post this kind of question.

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Bricknyce wrote:
How does this pertain to bodybuilding? Bodybuilders do not do complexes, hence why you have not received a reply yet.

I think a general fitness forum would have been a good idea and could have eliminated the need for T-Cell Alpha.

There really is no good place to post this kind of question.[/quote]

Kinda agree with there being no real place here for such questions.
People seem to think that the bb forum is the
“general (training) discussion” forum or something.

This forum used to be crawling with the “functional training and Waterbury” fanboys, and now its overrun with the PX wannabes and the puppypoopers reciting the SAME tired mantra time and again. Mean while the T cell actually has a whole thread devoted to skinny fat schoolboys benching 245 for a 1RM.

The future is bright!

[quote]Sagat wrote:
This forum dont seems to be about competitive bodybuilding, but bodybuilding in the sense of building muscle and losing fat, so if one thinks its a good tool for fat loss (or not)let them discuss it here.[/quote]