The College Crisis

Off Topic
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"Coupled with and central to a crisis in the status of the middle class, we are witnessing a growing crisis in which college graduates are finding it increasingly hard to find jobs. As record numbers of students graduate, they do so into a dwindling and ever-decreasing job market. With so many students having gone into extreme debt to attain an education, and graduate into a jobless market, we see the growth of a â??crisis in expectations.â??

As the Guardian reported in September of 2008, at the height of the global financial crisis, â??Universities are producing too many graduates, leaving more than a million people in jobs for which they are over-qualified.â??[25] Thus, there are too many graduates and too few jobs.

Alan Krueger, an economist at Princeton, explained in December of 2008 the misrepresentation of the official statistics for unemployment as put out by the Bureau of Labor Statistics. As he explained, to be counted as â??unemployed,â?? it is required that someone:

“1) was without a job in the reference week; 2) made an effort to actively search for a job in the last four weeks; and 3) was available for work. A person who is not employed and does not meet this definition of unemployed is considered out of the labor force.”[26]

So, if you are unemployed and have given up on searching for a job, you are not counted in the statistics of unemployment. Further, if you are surviving on part-time work, you are not counted in the unemployment statistics. Students who canâ??t find a job and return to school are not counted among the unemployed. Thus, the official government numbers are a gross misrepresentation of the true degree of the crisis in employment."

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article18282.html

I have a LOT of students who go to the Ohio State Univ, Miami (Ohio), all sorts of great schools…and come home with degrees and no job. It is really sad. One, with a degree in engineering, joined the service and is now in Afghanistan. Guess the ‘recovery’ has yet to kick in here.

Anyone else here in this situation?

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Not I. I’m a civilian contractor in Iraq. All I have is a High School Diploma and I’ve been making six figures for the past 5 years. I know that I’m lucky and fortunate to have this job. And I’m actually scared as all hell to come home and look for a job without an education. And when I read articles like yours, Headhunter, it scares me even more to go back to school.

I’ve developed working skills as a Logistician and that’s what I’m good at and what I’m going to stick to. Now, I just have to market myself very well since I have the knowledge and experience to run a warehouse, without a college education.

It’s looks and sound shitty, and I know it must be miserable for my fellow educated Americans back in ‘The World’ as we call it here, that they’re educated, and can’t find a job in which they went to a university and learned it’s function. Life’s a bitch, and then you feel shitted on. I wish the best of luck to everyone out there that’s unemployed, or working a job that they’re over-qualified for. Keep your spirits up.

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at the same time, kids are expecting employers to give them good salaries for possibly attending classes and having theoretical knowledge with not a whole lot of experience, if any. how many college kids do you know thats parents just cut them a check a month becuase ‘school is their job’ so they dont have to work and can ‘focus on their studies’?

i held a job all throughout college, the last one was an internship i was invited to stay on with after i graduated, but all 3 jobs i had offers from. kids are too busy partying to get internships and get experience in the field. 3 months after i graduated i was made an offer by a rival company and im still there 3+ years later. currently, i have 5+ years in the field which is great for my age and makes it easy to interview and get offers even in a slower job market.

my sister is a junior in college, works at a restaurant as a waitress/hostess. so do all her freinds and roomates, none of them has an internship in any of their respective total BS majors, so im not going to be sympathetic at all when she doesnt get a job because ive told her to get an internship for the past year.

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Graduating next year, holding three part-time gigs atm. Honestly I’m not all that concerned. I think it’ll be hard to get a job that I’m really interested in, but not necessarily any job. I have experience relevant to the fields I’m looking to enter and I consider each mini-job a stepping stone to a better opportunity.

Plus the government is hiring all over the place (let’s not get partisan here), so that’s at least once sector that isn’t trimming their staff.

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I think part of the problem is what people major in. I went to Tufts for undergrad…they call it a little Ivy now so it’s a damn good school. But there were people there on loans (tuition was $46k a year) majoring in things like art history and American studies. WTF do you do with an American studies major?
I was a bio major and I’m in med school now. For anyone nowadays, without a useful major, internships (good resume), and possibly a graduate degree, it will be rough finding a job.

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[quote]ron22 wrote:
I think part of the problem is what people major in. I went to Tufts for undergrad…they call it a little Ivy now so it’s a damn good school. But there were people there on loans (tuition was $46k a year) majoring in things like art history and American studies. WTF do you do with an American studies major?
I was a bio major and I’m in med school now. For anyone nowadays, without a useful major, internships (good resume), and possibly a graduate degree, it will be rough finding a job.[/quote]

Exactly. All the frat/sorority people major in ‘general business’ at UA, why? Because it’s a super easy major that anyone can coast through. People think they can just take all the classes and graduate without actually having any goals or plans for a job after college. Then they are dumbfounded when they graduate without even making a resume and are completely unprepared for the real world.

Moral of the story: Graduate with an actual plan. Take classes that will help you get a job. It should be no surprise that you do not get a job if you haven’t actually learned anything.

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I used to be part of the hiring process at a decent sized software company. When we looked at hiring kids right out of college, the ones who had any work experience always got rated ahead of ones who had never worked. The ones that had relevant work experience generally rated higher than the ones who just had work experience.

In all the time I was involved (over 30 new college hires), none were from the group with no work experience. Basically we didn’t want to be the place where they learned how to work. Too much of a risk. FYI.

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[quote]jahall wrote:

[quote]ron22 wrote:
I think part of the problem is what people major in. I went to Tufts for undergrad…they call it a little Ivy now so it’s a damn good school. But there were people there on loans (tuition was $46k a year) majoring in things like art history and American studies. WTF do you do with an American studies major?
I was a bio major and I’m in med school now. For anyone nowadays, without a useful major, internships (good resume), and possibly a graduate degree, it will be rough finding a job.[/quote]

Exactly. All the frat/sorority people major in ‘general business’ at UA, why? Because it’s a super easy major that anyone can coast through. People think they can just take all the classes and graduate without actually having any goals or plans for a job after college. Then they are dumbfounded when they graduate without even making a resume and are completely unprepared for the real world.

Moral of the story: Graduate with an actual plan. Take classes that will help you get a job. It should be no surprise that you do not get a job if you haven’t actually learned anything. [/quote]

x2 for all of these…

Kids think getting a degree makes them employable. Internships, experiance, technical society involvement, THESE things get you jobs… plus, they expect wayyyyy to much money (too much MTV) and get useless degrees…

No student in engineering I know who had internships and was active in the societies has had a problem getting a job… Hell, I got 4 job offers at the last conference I was at and I am not looking for one…

I think this really stems back to people going to college who would have been better off getting a job / learning a trade and not taking it serious (you can still have plenty of fun though)…

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[quote]jahall wrote:

Moral of the story: Graduate with an actual plan. Take classes that will help you get a job. It should be no surprise that you do not get a job if you haven’t actually learned anything. [/quote]

But what about entitlement? ha.

I think the biggest part of this problem is that people (of all ages now) have come to expect that you can kinda coast through life and dick around a bit since someone will give you a job, right?

My parents are very well off but as soon as I hit high school, I went off to work. I worked construction for 10hrs+ a day, every weekday, every summer. At the time, that sucked and I probably hated my folks for making me work. BUT now I realize that was probably one of the best things they could have done for me. Of all the people I have met at college/med school, the ones who have had to work are the ones that least expect handouts or expect someone to just give them a job. That’s a huge plus in my book these days.

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[quote]ron22 wrote:

[quote]jahall wrote:

Moral of the story: Graduate with an actual plan. Take classes that will help you get a job. It should be no surprise that you do not get a job if you haven’t actually learned anything. [/quote]

But what about entitlement? ha.

I think the biggest part of this problem is that people (of all ages now) have come to expect that you can kinda coast through life and dick around a bit since someone will give you a job, right?

My parents are very well off but as soon as I hit high school, I went off to work. I worked construction for 10hrs+ a day, every weekday, every summer. At the time, that sucked and I probably hated my folks for making me work. BUT now I realize that was probably one of the best things they could have done for me. Of all the people I have met at college/med school, the ones who have had to work are the ones that least expect handouts or expect someone to just give them a job. That’s a huge plus in my book these days.[/quote]

Ron, you should post more … you’re an example of a good '09er

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Hmmmm as an employer I think one of the main reasons why they are having a hard time finding jobs is because a university degree no longer ‘screens out’ the incompetent/lazy. I hired someone who was basically ‘aiming’ to be a marketer at a Bio-technology company, ran cross country in HS and had good grades from MSU who probably was mentally slow.

I also have picked up people who were ex-WoW players who hang out on the bb.com forums who from their appearance/work history would look like very undesirable employees but who are my most productive sales representatives.

That was just a big blow, that here was a person from MSU who did all the things that the school advisor told her to do, who had a degree in marketing, but couldn’t sell worth crap. I’m now talking to other businessmen and they are finding stories that are the exact same, the degree doesn’t guarantee any type of proficiency in the task.

I mean, some degrees mean you have to have a high degree of intelligence, engineering/math, but a large part of business is not intelligence but work ethic.

Anyways, shrinking economy etc, I’m sure those things play a larger role than this, but I know that I’m looking for work experience or ex-military when I hire.

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Can you put it all on the kids though? For the money spent on furthering our education shouldnt colleges actively try to seek out companies to partner with to give the kids internships? You think most 20 yr olds know how to just seek out internships that can help their careers. Im not saying they need to be babied 24/7, all i’m saying is you think kids would deny internships if they were readily given?

I was a business major because I was young and thought thats the major you choose if you want to work in corporate environments etc. The ONLY reason I had an internship (research assistant & HR trainee at Upenn) was because my mom has an office with Wharton business school and she sought it out for me. Colleges need to take a more active role in ensuring a good % of its enrollment (juniors/seniors) are receiving internships. Agree?

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[quote]SickAbs wrote:
Can you put it all on the kids though? For the money spent on furthering our education shouldnt colleges actively try to seek out companies to partner with to give the kids internships? You think most 20 yr olds know how to just seek out internships that can help their careers. Im not saying they need to be babied 24/7, all i’m saying is you think kids would deny internships if they were readily given?

I was a business major because I was young and thought thats the major you choose if you want to work in corporate environments etc. The ONLY reason I had an internship (research assistant & HR trainee at Upenn) was because my mom has an office with Wharton business school and she sought it out for me. Colleges need to take a more active role in ensuring a good % of its enrollment (juniors/seniors) are receiving internships. Agree?[/quote]

I partially agree. My school had great programs to get internships and since it’s a relative small university (my undergrad entering class was around ~1500 students), the alumni are very active. So along the way, I made great connections and worked in some awesome internships…most of which I dug up by myself. BUT, there are many, many websites and programs unaffiliated with universities that anybody with a computer can use to find good internships. A little effort goes a long way in the process.

In my opinion, the role of college is to educate you…to impart book knowledge and also some practical stuff too. But there’s absolutely no excuse for not doing a bit of work on your own to get to where you want to be. Hell, with how connected we are these days, you can get advice from someone halfway around the globe on training routines…why not use the same technology to plan your future?

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[quote]SickAbs wrote:
Can you put it all on the kids though? For the money spent on furthering our education shouldnt colleges actively try to seek out companies to partner with to give the kids internships? You think most 20 yr olds know how to just seek out internships that can help their careers. Im not saying they need to be babied 24/7, all i’m saying is you think kids would deny internships if they were readily given?

I was a business major because I was young and thought thats the major you choose if you want to work in corporate environments etc. The ONLY reason I had an internship (research assistant & HR trainee at Upenn) was because my mom has an office with Wharton business school and she sought it out for me. Colleges need to take a more active role in ensuring a good % of its enrollment (juniors/seniors) are receiving internships. Agree?[/quote]

Most colleges do.

Many colleges REQUIRE some sort of internship to graduate and gives students credits towards graduation for internships.

My school didn’t require it, but the business school made interviewing for an internship very, very easy. Just upload a resume on the business school site and apply to internships that were posted.

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Internships are the most important thing.

I have done two and am graduating this may with a degree in engineering and have a good job lined up. Many of my friends who never recieved any experience of any kind have already graduated and moved home with nothing.

Companies aren’t interested in paying fresh inexperienced engineers big money when there are experienced people out there.

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I went straight from high school to the factory floor so i’m in the dark on this but don’t colleges teach networking skills to help them find employment in the field they chose?

I was talking to my mechanic about this just last week and his daughter went into kinesiology and graduated from one of Canada’s best uni’s…no jobs. Going to be an RN, more opportunitys.

My niece is also floating around university as I call it. Her subjects seem useless unless she wants to get a job at a museum and how many museums jobs are out there.

I have a son with one more year of high school and this is making me a little nervous.

Is the old saying “it’s not what you know, but who you know” still relevent?

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[quote]CGspot wrote:
Companies aren’t interested in paying fresh inexperienced engineers big money when there are experienced people out there.[/quote]

the experienced people are clearly ruining it for everyone else. we need some sort of experience reform so that it’s more evenly distributed

i hate to put it on the kids, but my peers seem to be unmotivated, and, for lack of a better word, useless. my opinion has only solidified since i started recruiting for my company. the people that we actually want to hire already have good jobs or full-time offers because they went out and got internships, pursued career opportunities, and generally acted like they actually wanted to work.

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so… speaking of interships, anyone know of any in the DFW area for engineering? cause i’ll suck a dick for one at this point

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[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I went straight from high school to the factory floor so i’m in the dark on this but don’t colleges teach networking skills to help them find employment in the field they chose?

I was talking to my mechanic about this just last week and his daughter went into kinesiology and graduated from one of Canada’s best uni’s…no jobs. Going to be an RN, more opportunitys.

My niece is also floating around university as I call it. Her subjects seem useless unless she wants to get a job at a museum and how many museums jobs are out there.

I have a son with one more year of high school and this is making me a little nervous.

Is the old saying “it’s not what you know, but who you know” still relevent?

[/quote]

Knowing the right people is certainly beneficial, but honestly, like someone above said, most kids choose majors that lack job opportunities after graduation.

That’s why the saying “Do what you love and the money will follow” is complete and utter dog shit.

Schools try to teach networking but most students don’t embrace it, they go to the events so they can say they went and don’t actively try to improve their networking skills.

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[quote]LankyMofo wrote:

[quote]bond james bond wrote:
I went straight from high school to the factory floor so i’m in the dark on this but don’t colleges teach networking skills to help them find employment in the field they chose?

I was talking to my mechanic about this just last week and his daughter went into kinesiology and graduated from one of Canada’s best uni’s…no jobs. Going to be an RN, more opportunitys.

My niece is also floating around university as I call it. Her subjects seem useless unless she wants to get a job at a museum and how many museums jobs are out there.

I have a son with one more year of high school and this is making me a little nervous.

Is the old saying “it’s not what you know, but who you know” still relevent?

[/quote]

Knowing the right people is certainly beneficial, but honestly, like someone above said, most kids choose majors that lack job opportunities after graduation.

That’s why the saying “Do what you love and the money will follow” is complete and utter dog shit.

Schools try to teach networking but most students don’t embrace it, they go to the events so they can say they went and don’t actively try to improve their networking skills.[/quote]

Agreed. I chose my profession because there will ALWAYS be a need for doctors of all specialties. I like what I do but it isn’t a LOVE or passion like I have for weight lifting and even personal training…but life isn’t about receiving every damn thing you want. It simply does NOT work that way.

If you want to be successful, you have to take some good with some bad. Don’t do something you HATE, but this mentality like everyone deserves a fucking dream job is bullshit.

If you hardly went to class and barely fucking graduated, why do you think you DESERVE anything?