T Nation

The Catholic Thread


#241

Is this post somehow supposed to be related to what we were discussing? If so, my apologies, I don’t see the connection.


#243

Bestiality is an evil that occurs in this world but I do not understand the actions. Homosexuality is the same type of behavior to me. Serious mental instability has to happen to even explain the behaviors. Homosexuality is not genetic, it is not a learned behavior, it cannot be explained in any way that I have ever heard. Except for the case where a young male is traumatized and sexually abused. It makes sense that a man that was molested as a boy seeks to find understanding to that trauma later in life by repeating the behavior. Now I am not a psychology major, a psychologist or anything like that. But it does make sense that people can unlearn the homosexual lifestyle.

This thread is literally called “The Catholic Thread.”


#244

No it doesn’t. It makes him even worse than his own abuser. That doesn’t make sense at all.

Nobody’s ever tried the “God’s will” approach with you before?

image


#245

What does that say about a guy who beats his wife? Is he worse than his dad who likely taught him the behavior? To be sexually abused as a young kid/young adult has to screw up your thinking as an adult. How could it not?

Are you seriously trying to say that GOD created them gay? Or are you saying GOD allowed the people to be traumatized so severely they become gay?

Cute meme but what is the point you are trying to make?


#246

Yes. Much worse.

Are you trying to say anything has happened that wasn’t part of gods plan? Or that god is incapable of creating gay people?

If God is all powerful, it would make sense he’s responsible for the existence of homosexuality.


#247

I am just hoping to understand where you are coming from because it seems like we are having an honest conversation and I truly appreciate that. So thank you!

Why does it make the guy who beats his wife that "much worse" especially when he was taught, learned and shown that behavior as a young child?

GOD is omnipotent and all powerful, no arguments there. But look at what this amazing Being has done. To save humanity He became a God Man, then He humbles Himself and shackles His Nature and Body in Tabernacles around the world for the last two-thousand years. He only did this to save His creatures that by default, are sinful to their very nature. GOD will not take away our free will and because of that sinful nature, you see sin throughout the history of the world. If He took away our free will, where would our faith be? Would it even be authentic faith or just mindless zombies and their actions? I personally love my free will ; )

Homosexuality by its very nature and function is against GOD’s plan. GOD created us to procreate and fill the world with future inhabitants of Heaven. Homosexuality can never, ever, in any way shape or form ever create life, nor will it ever in the future. As a quick caveat, heterosexual couples who cannot naturally conceive are still a woman and man that can adopt and raise healthy children. It not only takes a village to raise a child, but an example of a woman and man to follow the healthy relationship that occurs in nature. Even our mammalian biology reflects our natural state. How many mammalian species in the world are gay? My point is that GOD cannot create something against His very nature. Look at Sodom and Gomorrah if you would like an example in the Bible of what GOD thinks of homosexuality and the inherent evils in those type of behaviors.

Just to be clear, I am not attacking homosexual people in anyway. In fact, like I said before they most likely were attacked when they were younger and that trauma led them to their lifestyle choices. Homosexual people deserve as much if not even more love than a heterosexual person, in their relation to needing healing so they become healthy, well adjusted people as they pass through this life.

pfury, can I ask what your thoughts are of firearms and gun control? Just trying to better understand where you are coming from, jajajaja.

edit - added two asterix for bold purposes and the phrase "Nature and"


#248

Because instead of breaking the cycle, he CHOOSES to keep it going knowing what he’s doing to someone else.

One of these statements has to be wrong for the other to be true.

Eh I don’t really care much about firearms. I’m of the opinion that most 2A regulation talk shouldn’t happen as it’s simply a distraction from topics that have a chance of making a difference.


#249

I am not sure I am following you and these statements, hopefully my statements will help me with your train of thought.

As human beings we are created in the image of GOD. Hopefully someone like @Sloth can come in and explain better than I might be able to, but I will try none the less ; )

Just because we are created in the image of GOD that does not stop us from performing actions that are sinful. We have to be given free will, otherwise GOD would have no reason to create us. GOD loves us so much that our love for Him is like a raindrop, while His Love is bigger than an entire ocean. This world limits our ability to grasp the wonder of GOD. However after we leave this world, our abilities and senses are no longer limited because of sin. Whichever we are granted by GOD; either Heaven or Hell, GOD simply fulfills our actions/choices that we had on earth. Yet we all deserve hell because of our sinful nature (Mary, the Mother of GOD is the only exception, she was completely human and this is where Christ gets His Human Nature) but GOD may bless us with Heaven, but it has nothing to do with or actions/choices.

My wife is in the process of converting to the Faith and she often asks where I get this information; she asks if it’s from the Bible, a writing on Scripture or maybe pulled out of a dark hole that never sees the light of day. The Bible contains a lot of Truth from GOD, but there are writings from the doctors, saints and/or holy people of the Church where I believe I learned this knowledge. I recently finished the second book in a series titled The Mystical City of God by Venerable Mary of Agreda. I was told that The Passion of Christ is pulled almost exclusively from the third book in the series. Yet of the first two books that I have read, Holy Purgatory they are heavy and full of deep, meaningful language.

Why can GOD not be omnipotent, all powerful; all while never creating something against His nature? Why does one have to be wrong?

You quoted me here;

and you followed with;


#250

Just to be clear, according to you homosexuals are mentally ill?


#251

You said god CANNOT create something against his nature. If he is limited in any way (ie, the word cannot ever appears once), then he is not omnipotent


#252

Thanks, but I don’t do much defending of the faith or whatever. At least not on forums. And honestly, how others feel about Catholicism is boring to me. No offense, but folks could absolutely despise my faith and it doesn’t really register with me. I don’t need folks to follow along.


#253

GOD is One who has unlimited power and authority. Yet He limits Himself, but that never changes His Nature or His omnipotence.

If GOD were limited other than by Himself, you would be right, that is a trait He could not posses.


#254

Then what you meant to say is god WONT create something not in his image (not something anyone could actually know either way, but that’s besides the point)

So since God clearly has the power to intentionally create homosexuality, and with the context that God created everything, which means he created the concept of homosexuality.

Why exactly did god create something against his very nature, while you say he can’t do it? Something doesn’t jive


#255

Oh I do not really care about other people and their opinions of me. There are literally only two people that I care about in this world. One is my wife and the other is my grandmother who passed away nearly two years ago.

Maybe I am too bored during times when my kids nap. * shrug * As a stay-at-home father I love defending LIFE in real life or on the internet. My understanding right now of Catholicism is lacking in comparison so in life issues so this helps me practice and understand my Faith better ; )

edit - added the word ‘father’ to stay-at-home and hanged I to in


#256

There are 2 people you care about in the world…? And you proceed to name 2 people that don’t include your child?


#257

Are you saying GOD created Himself? Sorry man, that be some crazy, insane and wrong mental gymnastics ; ) If you want to know GOD, look to the natural world around you.

GOD CANNOT create something evil. He allowed angels like Lucifer to fall of their own free will but that is because of their choices. GOD cannot go against His own nature and create an inherent wrong/evil.

GOD did not create homosexuality, that is Satan’s doing and our fallen natures that are not more disgusted by the actions. So you know, something like sixty-four percent of Catholics supported gay “un-natural” marriage. That shows you what a crap job the priests have done in teaching the Faith.

Jajajaja, you need to read my entire post and not just one sentence in a post. Of course I care about my kids! Here is another example of you taking a phrase out of context. I guess I could rephrase it to; I only care about two peoples opinions of me.

In fact this is an example of what is happening in the Church today. People are told to "Follow their conscience." But that is missing a critical and an important adjective. Scripture actually reads that people should "Follow their INFORMED conscience." Christ tells us to not even change one part of one letter in Scripture.

For your knowledge I care about far more than just my children, I care about all the people of the world. My sinful nature has me care about people in varying degrees, where I am called to care about all the people of the world the same, especially those who have wronged me. Now I am responsible for teaching my kids about the Faith and if I do not, I will have to answer to GOD for my inaction or wrong action.


#258

Who created evil?


#259

No, I’m saying he created homosexuality by extension of creating everything

Again, if God CANNOT anything, he is not all powerful. If he WONT (according to you), that’s a different story.

I definitely see this stat differently.

Well you did say ‘literally.’ Apologies for taking your words at face value?


#260

The atomic bomb was created because GOD allowed it to happen. He gave mankind free will and knowledge but because of our fallen nature evil things can be created. Homosexuality is against everything GOD desires and that is why it is so disordered. The choice to do evil does not mean GOD created that choice. When GOD gave Adam and Eve free will, in the end they chose of their own free will, their choice was for disobey GOD. GOD did not create that evil, He allowed it to happen.

GOD did create free will and His creatures can make a choice between following or disobeying His commandments or basic instructions. Before GOD created the world, He created angels and those angels were without sin but they also had free will. Some of those angels chose to sin against GOD but that doesn’t mean GOD created the sin. GOD did allow for the conditions were sin was possible. Lucifer chose to sin against GOD because he rebelled against the idea of serving men and especially when Mary was the highest model of humanity.

Take for example my kids. My kids can disobey me when I tell them to clean their room. The condition was created by me to where the children can decide to follow my commands or they can rebel against me, but I am innocent of their choices, either good or bad. I also did not cause my kids to sin. All four of my kids can either follow my command or not; obey or not obey, i.e., sin or not.

Also my choice of the word cannot is wrong. GOD can do anything, but He will not go against His nature. For example, I could physically hurt my kids when they make me mad but I will not do it because it is not something I would ever do, it is against my nature as their father.

The Catholic Church teaches that marriage is between a woman and a man. Nothing taught by the Church teaches that homosexuality should be celebrated, she teaches that homosexuality is an abomination. Catholics are not called to support gay unnatural "marriage." (Sorry I put the quotes in the wrong place before = ] )

Another example of how this medium is limited.


#261

Distinction without a difference lol. When you’re the creator of the entire universe, you have quite literally created everything. He set the rules of the universe that led to everything.

Ofc he did. Because he could have created a universe where that sin wasn’t possible, and chose not to.

Would it make sense to you if I say tons of Catholics approve of the equality aspect in a societal sense without approving of it in a spiritual sense?

I know many Catholics who just genuinely don’t want gays to have equal rights in a societal sense, and many more who would love to see societal equality without giving it their spiritual endorsement.

Do you believe a Catholic can support societal equality while disagreeing spiritually?