T Nation

The Catholic Thread


Are you offering to provide said help? I started the thread and said I am simply a lay Catholic. I love being wrong because I can learn something, especially in this case because it would be about my Faith.

What have you offered? Oh that’s right, nothing. I wonder why?

Please enlighten me though. Evidence is a glorious thing.


Stop telling lies would be a good first step toward recovery. The whole cardiac muscle and Shroud of Turin claims you made are absolutely false.


I am going to guess you are attacking me? * shrug *

Do you have ANYTHING to back your claim? You can bust me for copying the Catholic Church, but that is not any different from what I have said from the beginning. Can you provide any evidence? In my defense, mine was involving the current Holy Father, Pope Francis. But who is he, really??


I don’t need to back up anything, you do however.


With the evidence which I provided your response was literally "This is wrong." If my point was wrong you have to prove it, simply ranting you are wrong means nothing, especially without proof. Jaa jaa jaa jaa, this must be that ignorant kid from New Zealand, malakyi(sp?) because your insults are the same. Maybe I should just block you too, then I would never have to respond.


I don’t have to prove wrong, what you have failed to prove right.


When eating the body of Christ do you guys prefer white or wheat?


No preference here.


There is tradition and then there is Tradition.


Homosexuality is the problem of the day in the Church. Until this problem is addressed then the Church will continue to crash. The Catholic Church will certainly fall from her former glory and at the end a greater and more devote group will emerge.

Men are attacking younger men. If the Church wasn’t having a homosexual problem then why does over eighty percent of the sex abuse cases involve males versus homosexuality being in the single digits of percent of the population??

And for the people who don’t want to pad the video count of Church Militant. Here are the text from the video.

"I’m Michael Voris coming to you from the Vatican where there are conflicting reports about a potentially explosive 6-year-old dossier, up to now largely forgotten. The 300-page dossier dates back to the final months of Pope Benedict’s pontificate, and reports from multiple sources is that it is now circulating in various corners of the city.

"Conflicting reports about its disturbing content seem to hinge on uncertainty about whether possible redacted versions of it are being seen by some, while others are seeing the original. Additionally, questions are arising whether the original dossier was just the groundwork for a possible dossier containing much more damning information.

"What we can tell you is: One, Church Militant has more double sourced this; and two, these sources for have never been wrong about anything else they have tipped us off to. Now, the original dossier was compiled in the wake of what was tagged “VatiLeaks,” a reference to the theft and release to Italian journalists of various private documents of Pope Benedict.

"The Holy Father ordered an investigation into the thefts but various media reports said what began as an investigation into one area quickly diverted into an entirely unforeseen area: homosexuality within the hierarchy here at the Vatican.

"Three cardinal-investigators eventually compiled their findings into a dossier and presented it to Pope Benedict just a couple of months before his surprise retirement in February of 2013.

"Despite the intrigue surrounding the dossier and rumors of its salacious details and various prelates and cardinals being named, it fell off most people’s radar and into obscurity once Benedict’s retirement and Francis’ subsequent election began dominating the headlines.

"Still, for the past six years, people here in Rome and elsewhere have had some quiet interest in whatever became of it, and now there may be some answers.

"According to reliable sources, it was stumbled upon by authorities at a drug-fueled homosexual party on the top floor of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in March of last year — 2017.

"It was the apartment of Fr. Luigi Capozzi. The Pope had given him the apartment at the urging of homosexualist Cdl. Francesco Coccopalmerio.

Reports are when the bust happened, Coccopalmerio himself was present but permitted to leave before arrests started being made and during the raid, authorities confiscated the dossier in a sweep of the apartment and vehicles.

"From there, reports are that awareness of the dossier started slowly growing and being circulated around Rome, and, according to insiders, Church Militant is in communication with the dossier and/or additional documents contain frightening and disturbing information that many people are nervous about releasing them.

"Since arriving in Rome, Church Militant has learned more about the dossier, although we have not actually laid eyes on it.

"Some of those who have, tell us that the information is not just about homosexuality within the Roman and Vatican clergy, but also satanic rituals, which, if true, would be beyond explosive.

"On this point, faithful Catholics here in Rome and other locations of late have been speculating and quietly discussing that the evil which seems to have gripped so many levels of the Church is beyond usual human failings of sin and bad judgment, that there seems to be something directly diabolical at foot.

"Indeed, Abp. Viganò speaks about the direct work and presence of the demonic in all that is currently going on in the Church. But Viganò isn’t alone in pointing a finger at the diabolical.

"For the past few decades, there has been much argument back and forth about, for example, Fr. Malachi Martin’s declarations that satanic rituals were taking place here in Rome involving various members of the hierarchy.

"The controversial Roman exorcist Gabriele Amorth — who died two years ago — warned publicly about the very real presence of the diabolical in Rome and the Vatican.

"Adding to all this, numerous churchmen will tell you privately that among the sinister players at work in the hierarchy are various Freemasons — some in extremely influential positions, hidden in plain view.

"Aspects of Freemasonry have long been associated with satanism, so the connections between active homosexuals, Freemasons and satanic practices here in Rome shouldn’t really come as that much of a surprise.

"Freemasons have long sought the overthrow of the Catholic Church and infiltration into the clergy and hierarchy of morally corrupt agents — including active homosexuals — is a known tactic used by Freemasons as well as communists, as testified to by former Communist Party member Bella Dodd.

"So when a number of very public issues begin to collide, they feed this rumor mill, which may very well be true. For example, the staff Pope Francis came out carrying at the opening Mass of the Youth Synod very much resembled a wiccan stang used by witches, the very public display of what looked like a gay pride cross being worn by the Pope at one of the sessions.

"The Vatican, of course, had quick explanations for all of this in the face of an explosion on social media best summed as — what the Hell is all that?

"But the very fact that the Vatican had to offer explanations for what even looked like symbols of witchcraft, sorcery and sodomy adorning the person of the Pope shows — at the very least — a completely out of touch Vatican and, in many people’s minds, something far, far worse.

"Additionally, as mentioned, Freemasonry is the sworn enemy of the Catholic Church, being officially, publicly condemned by more popes than any other single thing in the Church’s history — even as recently as by Pope Benedict.

"Yet since he became pope, Francis has been lauded publicly — officially praised — on no less than 60 different occasions by Masonic lodges all over the world. And the Vatican has failed to repudiate any of them.

"This nexus between Freemasonry, homosexuality, satanism and political socialism simply fuels the believability of reports about a dossier and later documents detailing this. If this dossier or additional accompanying documents do emerge and bring this to light, the potential fallout would dramatically impact Pope Francis and his papacy because Francis received the dossier from Pope Benedict after being elected, and according to some sources, actually promoted some individuals named in the dossier.

"If that is true and it all comes to light, it could have the impact of bringing down the entire Francis pontificate as newspapers around the world would scream out the most sensational headlines perhaps ever associated with the Church.

"All of this is happening against the backdrop of increasing challenges to the Pope’s apparent embrace of homosexuality, financial scandals involving the Papal Foundation with a shady $25 million deal pushed by homosexual predator Theodore McCarrick, whose career was resurrected by Francis, the announcement of at least two federal investigations back in the United States and charges that, while he was archbishop of Buenos Aires, he protected predator priests.

"If reports of the dossier or other documentation is true, and they get leaked, a dossier revealing various prelates here in the Vatican are either involved in satanic rituals or are secret Freemasons in addition to active homosexuals, and Pope Francis has known this, it’s difficult to imagine how he and his favorites could survive.

"Rome is always full of rumors and rumors about rumors. But sources tell Church Militant the content of this is solid and reliable, and a cover-up of all this is ongoing.

"For example, some Vatican sources have recently come out and completely denied earlier news reports from LifeSiteNews, for example, that a drug-fueled gay party even took place, much less arrests made and evidence taken.

"But Church Militant has confirmed with sources here in Rome that this event did happen. The problem in Rome in chasing anything down is the complete lack of transparency as well as institutional secrecy in which everything is cloaked.

"It’s why the testimonies of Abp. Viganò — now completely attested to and verified — have been so incredibly explosive and revealing.

"They have drawn back that veil of secrecy and given people a look behind the scenes at how sexual and financial corruption can run wild in such a climate of little accountability and transparency.

"Almost everyone asked about McCarrick, for example, except multiple cardinals lying through their teeth, say they had heard “rumors” about McCarrick. Those rumors turned out to be true, and the evils were allowed to continue because of this normal Roman atmosphere of skullduggery and secrecy.

“We will stay on top of this story and bring you what we know as soon as we learn more.”


So does the sub 20% hetero rape constitute less of a problem? Why isn’t rape the problem of the day? Why is it only homosexual rape?


This reminds me of an ex-girlfriend I had just out of high school. Her arguments nearly always involved things I never said. Seriously laughed out loud thinking about that whole drama filled few weeks, so that you ; )

Three points -

This is for you pfury and I have said this before; Any and all rapists of any sort (pedophiles/ hebephiles/rapists), anyone attacking someone else because they have power over them, EXTREMELY SEVERE PUNISHMENT is justified. I believe for the guys; cauterize them so they don’t bleed out but removal of the testicles is mandatory. But leave the sack open to the wind, just like a goat they should be sprayed with Blue Coat (basically an iodine spray). For the opposite sex; stitch a her up only to the point where she does not bleed out but she needs her ovaries removed as well. But leave a gaping wound so there is no question as to what these monsters have done. Of course there has to be unequivocal proof that said attack happened but that is not the point of this discussion.

Second, if a patient has cancer, does it make any sense to only treat twenty percent or less of the cancer? No, the whole growth needs to be removed and chemo is often given. Does not always work but if the person wants to live, it will at least give a stronger chance at survival.

Third, a homosexual person was very, very likely attacked while they were younger. Just like people who are abusive to their partners or children, they learn that behavior somewhere and their psyches are messed up. The Catholic Church mandates that no homosexual person even enters seminary. That past trauma needs to be dealt with long before that man can ever become a shepherd of people.


I made the comment because you’re very very consistent in saying

I would think the “problem of the day” would be whatever the most important/powerful problem going on (correct me if problem of the day DOESNT mean biggest problem to you, I could simply be misreading).

So, to ME, rape is the problem of the day, as tackling homosexuality (using your own stat) only covers 80% of the real problem. And that’s being generous, as I’d guess rapists gonna rape regardless of the gender. So when you say homosexuality is the problem of the day, that means (by default) no other problem can be the problem of the day.


I do not know how to make this more clear - any and all rape is wrong!! In the Catholic Church, the twenty-fourth of November 2018 has a major (meaning greater than fifty percent) homosexual rape problem. In the early 2000’s it was the rape of prepubescent young BOYS and now they are post-pubescent young MEN. Notice a pattern?

In the Catholic Church, if you volunteer there, you have to take a few classes about what kind of touching is allowed and what is not (I cannot remember what they are called, sorry). Yet the priests do not “need any training in this area.” Yet where are the cases of volunteers raping people?


Apologies, allow me to rephrase my question.

You have said repeatedly, that homosexuality is the problem of the day irt the Catholic Church. Why is rape not the problem of the day?


Any and all rape is wrong!! Homosexual rape is a greater evil in the Church when compared to heterosexual rape. But please don’t think one is worse/better than the other.

Earlier this century it was the rape of prepubescent young BOYS and now they are post-pubescent young MEN .

Do you not notice that men attacking of people of the same gender is the major, reoccurring problem?


You keep saying this like someone is disputing it.

I’m aware of the church’s colorful history, yes.

You didn’t say ‘homosexual rape is the problem of the day.’ You said

Hence my question of why homosexuality is the problem of the day. Why isn’t rape the problem of the day?

Edit: To clarify, as rape is CLEARLY a bigger problem for the church when compared to homosexuality, how did you come to the conclusion that homosexuality is the problem of the day?


Homosexuality is most likely an extreme past trauma, do you agree or disagree?


I have no idea, I left the church over a decade ago and haven’t done any research into homosexuality and why it occurs.

But on its face, I would disagree, as I have not been presented anything that would signify homosexuality is caused moreso by extreme past trauma than any other factor. Certainly not to the extent I would say ‘most likely.’


You would think a group of elected bishops that are supposed to represent the Catholic Church and partake in activities that reflect the Church also represent what the Faith teaches. That would be logical and therefore reasonable at least to me.

This is from the Lepanto Institute -

USCCB Gives $240,000 to Group Promoting Planned Parenthood, Prostitution, LGBTs

Since 2010, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) has made several large financial contributions to an organization in San Francisco that is actively promoting all manner of immorality. Through grants from the Catholic Campaign for Human Development (CCHD), which is an official project of the USCCB, the Coalition on Homelessness has received $240,000 in four grants: $40,000 for 2010-2011; $50,000 for 2014-2015; $75,000 for 2015-2016; and $75,000 for 2016-2017, the last available grants list on the USCCB website. According to the Archdiocese of San Francisco website, the Coalition on Homelessness is slated to receive another CCHD grant for 2017-2018, though the amount has not yet been disclosed.

The problem is that the Coalition on Homelessness (COH) is very vocal about its support for Planned Parenthood, birth control, homosexuality, transgenderism, legalized prostitution and even legalized drug use.

COH has its own print publication called Street Sheet, which is a bi-monthly paper that reaches about 16,000 people through homeless or low-income distributors.

In other words, COH is an agenda-driven firm that is using the homeless to spread its ideologies. What follows are a few examples of the grossly immoral propaganda.

This May 2017 issue of Street Sheets carries an article with the headline, “Where is the Reproductive Justice for Homeless Women?” (page 7). In the article, the author makes three statements promoting Planned Parenthood. She says:

Many women’s rights to reproductive health and family planning services are being violated through recent actions by the Trump administration plans to stop funding to programs such as Planned Parenthood .

Low-income and homeless women need access to services from organizations such as Planned Parenthood , Women’s Community Clinic, and Women’s Health Justice

In fact, Planned Parenthood participates annually in a fair put on by Project Homeless Connect , a San Francisco social service organization.

On June 1, 2018, Street Sheet published what it called the “Sex Work Issue.” This issue is filled with unrepeatable and filthy “poetry,” promotes transgenderism and most prominently calls for the decriminalization of prostitution. The issues contains headlines like, “Criminalizing Sex Work Creates Violence,” and a raunchy poem by a “transgender sex-worker.” Page 5 of this issue contains an ad for the “March for Sex Worker Rights,” which is aimed at combating anti-sex trafficking laws.

The last page of the Sex Worker issue contains a full-page social media ad, which says “I Support Sex Workers and Homeless People” and contains the hash-tag “#SexWorkIsWork.” This page instructs people to take a selfie, fix it to the white area of the page, take a picture of that and post it on Instagram, tagging the organization, “@coalitiononhomelessness.”

The June 15, 2018 issue of Street Sheets is their “Pride Issue.” This issue celebrates the decriminalization of sodomy, uses unrepeatable language, and advertises for the then, up-coming “Dyke March.”

In the September 1, 2016 issue, COH published an image of a mural “celebrating LGBTQ love,” complaining that it was vandalized, saying, “you cannot destroy love.”

Despite the fact that in May of 2017, Coalition on Homelessness gave a ringing endorsement of Planned Parenthood, on June 8 of this year (2018), COH’s executive director Jennifer Friedenbach co-authored a piece in America Magazine with the Archdiocese of San Francisco’s Office of Human Life & Dignity, Valerie Schmalz, titled, “SF must help pregnant homeless women qualify for housing.” Given that the CCHD claims to have “strict guidelines” and that it works to “build relationships” with the granted organizations, it’s hard to imagine that CCHD did not know about COH’s promotion of Planned Parenthood a year before this article was written. What makes this article particularly egregious is that it uses pro-life language in order to make homelessness a “pro-life issue.” This is, of course, disingenuous given the prior promotion of the world’s largest abortion chain.

But COH’s offenses against the Catholic Church are not limited to the Church’s moral teachings. COH has also grievously offended Our Lady. On Sept. 12, 2016, COH posted a blasphemous image of Our Lady called “Our Lady of Compton Cafeteria,” describing it as “brilliant.” The piece was a part of COH’s art auction, so they sold this image for their own funds. At the bottom of this horrific image is a blasphemous prayer, which beseeches “our Lady” to “grant all transwomen … safe love.” It claims that “our Lady” launched “the movement for LGBTQ freedom.”

Also in 2015, COH created an effigy of Donald Trump and then decapitated it.

In November of 2017, COH posted its support for the “Trans March of Resilience.”

According to the CCHD’s application review process:

“National grants staff, who cover multiple dioceses in specific regions of the country, also conduct site visits throughout the year, and build and maintain relationships with funded groups.”

The National CCHD Director responsible for San Francisco is Sean Wenlinder. It’s hard to say if Mr. Wenlinder was simply not doing his job in properly vetting COH, or if he is actually complicit by turning a deliberate blind eye to the above activities we just identified. Either way, the fact that COH received a grant is because he and the CCHD director for the Archdiocese of San Francisco allowed it to happen. What is interesting, however, is that Mr. Wenlinder gave a plug to the Coalition on Homelessness in June of this year, when it’s executive director co-authored the article mentioned above, so he was at least aware of them. And it’s no coincidence that the CCHD focused on COH as well on their twitter account, mentioning that they are working with “partners” (such as the “trans” marchers we spotlighted above) to eliminate homelessness.

At a time when the Church is mired in a deep crisis regarding homosexual clergy, there is no way the Church’s bureaucratic infrastructure can afford to be caught aiding and abetting the LGBT lobby and agents in support of the Culture of Death. And yet, here is just one more example of the serious problems with the moral laxity at the USCCB. If the USCCB is willing to turn a blind eye to this, or claim that it missed a problem so egregious and easy to find such as this, then the USCCB cannot be trusted to police itself at all and should be shut down until every program, every employee, and every agenda can be fully scrutinized in a completely transparent manner. At the very least, the CCHD should be eliminated and the money returned to each and every Catholic donor who believed that their money was being used in a proper, Catholic manner.

Contact the CCHD’s office and demand to know why this group was funded, and how it intends to rectify the fact that at least a quarter of a million dollars has been given to a clear enemy of Holy Mother Church and Our Blessed Mother.


Main Number . . . . . . . . . . 202-541-3210
Fax Number . . . . . . . . . . 202-541-3329
Main Email . . . . . . . . . .

Ralph McCloud Director : 202-541-3367 rmccloud@usccb.org
Lydia Jiles Grants Administrator : 202-541-3210 ljiles@usccb.org
Sean Wendlinder Grant Specialist, Area E : 202-541-3212 swendlinder@usccb.org


Ms. Valerie Schmalz
Director, Office of Human Life & Dignity
Archdiocese of San Francisco
1 Peter Yorke Way
San Francisco, CA, 94109
Phone: (415) 614-5500

copied here - http://www.lepantoinstitute.org/catholic-campaign-for-human-development/usccb-gives-240000-to-group-promoting-planned-parenthood-prostitution-lgbts/