T Nation

The Cardio Thread

Just thought somthing was missing so I’ve taken it upon myself to start a thread for all lovers of cardio be it aerobic capacity, power or anaerobic capacity,power. Testing, intervals, fartlek and whatever else ive missed.

best intervals for fat loss?

ideal time or heart rate for vo2 max impovement?

lets get some ideas goin!

[quote]EMPORIOMICK wrote:
Just thought somthing was missing so I’ve taken it upon myself to start a thread for all lovers of cardio be it aerobic capacity, power or anaerobic capacity,power. Testing, intervals, fartlek and whatever else ive missed.

best intervals for fat loss?

ideal time or heart rate for vo2 max impovement?

lets get some ideas goin![/quote]

Oh… I am all over this!

Finally a max that I can talk about!

whats your sport then pal?

got any stats?

any new research for us?

give us some details!

[quote]EMPORIOMICK wrote:
whats your sport then pal?
[/quote]
Triathlon :slight_smile: (all distances). Sure you could break that down into three but… I’m not into doing each individually.

(ready to be flamed)

6’00" 167
Relative VO2 Max 75.42
Ventilatory Threshold 71%
Lactate Threshold (approximated around 71%)
Measured Max HR: 212

what type of research are you looking for?

[quote]

give us some details![/quote]

I have my next race in September. Check out my One Lift vs Endurance thread. I’ll be starting a pretty heavy build cycle to try to prep for September. I need to get the VO2 up and work on the thresholds a bit more.

thats some vo2max.

impressive, migual indurains was only about 84-85ml/kg/min. Good stuff. I must be part fish or something as my body doesnt seem to want to take in and utilise o2 at all.

Whats your esting heart rate like? (Again, just throwing a stat about but big migs was measured at 28bpm’s before his last defense of the tour de france.

[quote]EMPORIOMICK wrote:
thats some vo2max.

impressive, migual indurains was only about 84-85ml/kg/min. Good stuff. I must be part fish or something as my body doesnt seem to want to take in and utilise o2 at all.

Whats your esting heart rate like? (Again, just throwing a stat about but big migs was measured at 28bpm’s before his last defense of the tour de france.

[/quote]

There is a HUGE difference between 75 and 85. This is especially true on a cycle. Of course this all depends on the type of training you are doing but most people fall into fatigue or cramping before they can reach a VO2 comparable to their treadmill VO2. One may argue that this is a problem with the protcol itself.

Indurain is a beast. Ventilatory and Lactate threshold is much more important than VO2 Max though. In terms of competition. Consider two athletes at 75 ml/kg/min. One athlete with a VT of 75% and one of 71%. The VT of 75% would hand the other guy his ass. You’ll notice that more and more aerobic assessments will focus on Lactate and Ventilatory thresholds. These are much more indicative of endurance aerobic ability. I’d be interested to find out what Indurain’s VT/LT was.

To be honest, I am a bit poor at monitoring my resting heart rate. I keep track of everything but I have become terrible at getting my resting heart rate. It also is a bit skewed by medication (ADHD). When I used to check it regularly it would dance around 40. I will be monitoring it much more closely now that I got my new 625x polar. I’ll be uploading all my training data into my laptop.

Endurance training is much different then body building. It is fairly easy to see if you increased strength based on the weights you lift. I have to wait 1-2 months to get a VO2/VT test just to refine my training. (I don’t want to get into a body building vs endurance training arguement though… so I’ll stop that part here)

Both Lance and Indurain’s stats impress me.

I am working to find a place that will test my VO2 and Thresholds in the pool. How’s that for a twist.

I have a question I have been wanting to ask someone. I was wondering if any distance runners bothered with cleans. I know sprinters do. But I was thinking, if sprint intervals help make you faster even over distance, then cleans might as well.

It would be nice to have another sports forum in addition to the strength sports one. I’m sure every endurance athlete here notices it is almost impossible to get real information from any running sites or forums. People thought I was crazy for eating so much protein, lifting weights (it’s dangerous :slight_smile: etc.

[quote]chrisb71 wrote:
I have a question I have been wanting to ask someone. I was wondering if any distance runners bothered with cleans. I know sprinters do. But I was thinking, if sprint intervals help make you faster even over distance, then cleans might as well.

It would be nice to have another sports forum in addition to the strength sports one. I’m sure every endurance athlete here notices it is almost impossible to get real information from any running sites or forums. People thought I was crazy for eating so much protein, lifting weights (it’s dangerous :slight_smile: etc.[/quote]

I do cleans, deads, clean and jerks, snatches, etc.

Screw the running places. I don’t trust men in short shorts. (Coming from a guy who wears triathlon suits)

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
(ready to be flamed)

6’00" 167
Relative VO2 Max 75.42
Ventilatory Threshold 71%
Lactate Threshold (approximated around 71%)
Measured Max HR: 212[/quote]

OK, I’ll bite. How exactly do they measure your max HR? What kind of torture device is used for that bit of fun?

[quote]Kuz wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
(ready to be flamed)

6’00" 167
Relative VO2 Max 75.42
Ventilatory Threshold 71%
Lactate Threshold (approximated around 71%)
Measured Max HR: 212

OK, I’ll bite. How exactly do they measure your max HR? What kind of torture device is used for that bit of fun?[/quote]

Heart rate monitor ;-). For accuracy you generally use some type of transfer gel (don’t ask me what it is). And they simply measure it as you exercise. Normally a VO2 max is stopped at a certain RER value but I specifically ask to have them stop when I near pass out. I have never passed out. Unfortunately, I don’t have the mental capacity to push myself until I literally pass out; some athletes can. I can push myself at max HR for quite awhile but I always seem to hit the stop button before I pass out. That is more of a mental test as you have already hit max hr and max vo2 way before passing out.

I hate endurance sport websites. They are so clueless. They still adhere to that old 70C/20P/10F - no wonder so many of them look like crap.

But hey, that’s better for us, isn’t it?

I’m a (former) rower BTW, looking to get back into racing.

And yes, Indurain was a stallion (he was truly freakish given his size 6’1" compared to other elite cyclists. ) LeMond and Armstrong were also physiological freaks as well.

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
Kuz wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
(ready to be flamed)

6’00" 167
Relative VO2 Max 75.42
Ventilatory Threshold 71%
Lactate Threshold (approximated around 71%)
Measured Max HR: 212

OK, I’ll bite. How exactly do they measure your max HR? What kind of torture device is used for that bit of fun?

Heart rate monitor ;-). For accuracy you generally use some type of transfer gel (don’t ask me what it is). And they simply measure it as you exercise. Normally a VO2 max is stopped at a certain RER value but I specifically ask to have them stop when I near pass out. I have never passed out. Unfortunately, I don’t have the mental capacity to push myself until I literally pass out; some athletes can. I can push myself at max HR for quite awhile but I always seem to hit the stop button before I pass out. That is more of a mental test as you have already hit max hr and max vo2 way before passing out.
[/quote]

true true - most people cant actually hit a vo2max anyway. They simply peak instead. You need to be fairly fit and have a good pain tolerance for to achieve a full “max”.

Ive maxed on upper and lover body vo2max tests :slight_smile:

Anyone done any other tests? 30s wingates? 60s wingates? (puke time)

ill have to dig my stats out and put myself up for some ridicule.

[quote]OARSMAN wrote:
I hate endurance sport websites. They are so clueless. They still adhere to that old 70C/20P/10F - no wonder so many of them look like crap.
[/quote]

whats your take on the “ideal” for endurance athletes? Even sports classed as “multiple sprint sports” (rugby union for example) have literature recommending between 55-65%, so 70% for a pure endurance event like a marathon or triathletes doesnt seem that strange.

[quote]TriGWU wrote:
Heart rate monitor ;-). For accuracy you generally use some type of transfer gel (don’t ask me what it is). And they simply measure it as you exercise. Normally a VO2 max is stopped at a certain RER value but I specifically ask to have them stop when I near pass out. I have never passed out. Unfortunately, I don’t have the mental capacity to push myself until I literally pass out; some athletes can. I can push myself at max HR for quite awhile but I always seem to hit the stop button before I pass out. That is more of a mental test as you have already hit max hr and max vo2 way before passing out.
[/quote]

This is why you endurance types scare me. I love how it’s “unfortunate” you can’t push yourself until you pass out. LOL

Heh, I’m sure they think the same way about people that push or pull enough weight to tear their own muscles…

[quote]EMPORIOMICK wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
Kuz wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
(ready to be flamed)

6’00" 167
Relative VO2 Max 75.42
Ventilatory Threshold 71%
Lactate Threshold (approximated around 71%)
Measured Max HR: 212

OK, I’ll bite. How exactly do they measure your max HR? What kind of torture device is used for that bit of fun?

Heart rate monitor ;-). For accuracy you generally use some type of transfer gel (don’t ask me what it is). And they simply measure it as you exercise. Normally a VO2 max is stopped at a certain RER value but I specifically ask to have them stop when I near pass out. I have never passed out. Unfortunately, I don’t have the mental capacity to push myself until I literally pass out; some athletes can. I can push myself at max HR for quite awhile but I always seem to hit the stop button before I pass out. That is more of a mental test as you have already hit max hr and max vo2 way before passing out.

true true - most people cant actually hit a vo2max anyway. They simply peak instead. You need to be fairly fit and have a good pain tolerance for to achieve a full “max”.

Ive maxed on upper and lover body vo2max tests :slight_smile:

Anyone done any other tests? 30s wingates? 60s wingates? (puke time)

ill have to dig my stats out and put myself up for some ridicule.[/quote]

I’ve never done a windgate 30s or 60s. It’d be interesting to give it a shot. The fact that you go into the test knowing you are going to puke is quite entertaining. It’s hard to fathom 30 seconds of complete hell.

[quote]OARSMAN wrote:
I hate endurance sport websites. They are so clueless. They still adhere to that old 70C/20P/10F - no wonder so many of them look like crap.

But hey, that’s better for us, isn’t it?

I’m a (former) rower BTW, looking to get back into racing.

And yes, Indurain was a stallion (he was truly freakish given his size 6’1" compared to other elite cyclists. ) LeMond and Armstrong were also physiological freaks as well. [/quote]

I actually went out for the crew team. My cousin was the coach at the time, but he had to leave for a higher paying job. The new coach gave me the tryout and dismissed me until the feeling that I didnt have “endurance potential”. :-\

Rowing is a great sport.

[quote]Kuz wrote:
TriGWU wrote:
Heart rate monitor ;-). For accuracy you generally use some type of transfer gel (don’t ask me what it is). And they simply measure it as you exercise. Normally a VO2 max is stopped at a certain RER value but I specifically ask to have them stop when I near pass out. I have never passed out. Unfortunately, I don’t have the mental capacity to push myself until I literally pass out; some athletes can. I can push myself at max HR for quite awhile but I always seem to hit the stop button before I pass out. That is more of a mental test as you have already hit max hr and max vo2 way before passing out.

This is why you endurance types scare me. I love how it’s “unfortunate” you can’t push yourself until you pass out. LOL[/quote]

I guess you would compare it to going out to test your 1RM, putting a shit load of weight on and finding you can rep it twice. Sure, you found out you can move a crap load of weight but you never found your true 1RM.

It’s a level beyond insanity to have the ability to just go until your body gives out. Think of all the “stop now” impulses you have to overcome. Maybe one day.

The minute one is complete hell. I puked, toward the end its hard to push the pedals round. Very hard. 30 seconds isnt so bad, still, once the interval/s are over you dont quite feel the same the rest of the day.

[quote]TriGWU wrote:

I actually went out for the crew team. My cousin was the coach at the time, but he had to leave for a higher paying job. The new coach gave me the tryout and dismissed me until the feeling that I didnt have “endurance potential”. :-\

Rowing is a great sport.[/quote]

Agreed here too. Rowing is a great sport and the noise a C2 machine makes when someone who knows how to use it trains on it is unbeliveable. Its ideal cardio for big men too as there is little load bearing to take into account.

Concerning your triathon stuff ive got a few questions…

do u carbo load, have u tried it?

olympic distance or ironman?

do you have a periodized training routine? If so where do you schedule your testing VO2, lactate threshold?

good thread so far!