T Nation

The Body Weight Factor 2

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
while you’re kind of winging it because school stress, motorcycle accident, etc.[/quote]

I am not “winging it”. I have been lifting long enough and know my body enough to be able to estimate without pulling out a calculator. That doesn’t mean “winging it” because trial and error is how you learn your own body.

[quote]cally wrote:
You care too much about your own beliefs, whether they’re correct or not. Who cares if people stated that you cant force feed muscles? Really, who cares? Focus on making yourself better and move on with your life. You make some excellent points, just poorly conveyed which causes the controversy. Take out the emotion and I think you would have a lot more people agreeing with you. [/quote]

Then you should be against anyone posting anything here at all.

Everyone here is posting their beliefs. Why is it you only have a problem when I do it?

I am not putting any more emotion into this than anyone else.

I have no problem with it. There are too many here that are too emotionally driven on a topic that in the end is all about preference. There, I included those from both sides of the argument before I get lumped into the posse.

[quote]cally wrote:
I have no problem with it. There are too many here that are too emotionally driven on a topic that in the end is all about preference. There, I included those from both sides of the argument before I get lumped into the posse.[/quote]

But…this thread had a specific purpose…to expand the discussion.

Unless you raise this issue in OTHER threads, it seems real odd for you to have this urge to shout this out for several posts here for no reason.

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]browndisaster wrote:
while you’re kind of winging it because school stress, motorcycle accident, etc.[/quote]

I am not “winging it”. I have been lifting long enough and know my body enough to be able to estimate without pulling out a calculator. That doesn’t mean “winging it” because trial and error is how you learn your own body.

[/quote]
lol remember last year when you drank weight gainer and gained a lot of fat from it…because as you said, the calories were too high for your level of activity

tracking your macros still gives you that romantic trial and error, but just puts more controls on it and allows you to actually manipulate what you want to manipulate. In science AND art there are controls.

Anyhoo, I’m going to retire from this subforum. I hope what I’ve posted will help you free yo mind and get out of this rut that your physique has been in for the past years

[quote]browndisaster wrote:

lol remember last year when you drank weight gainer and gained a lot of fat from it…because as you said, the calories were too high for your level of activity[/quote]

After the motorcycle accident when my goal was t hold onto as much muscle as possible?

Oh wait…that actually WORKED and I kept nearly all of it in the end.

From the top of my lungs I’m shouting it out. I dont need to raise the issue any where else if I dont want to. I bring it up here. Again, as I have mentioned, this goes for you AND everyone else discussing the topic

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Bodyweight gain is going to coincide with most appearance-based goals. The majority of the time, a lifter will have to gain weight (at least temporarily) in order to end up looking better, whatever “looking better” means to them.

If that 6’2" 170-pound guy wants to end up looking like Vin Diesel, I’d make it clear that he’s really looking to add 40+ pounds in the long-term. That’s definitely an eye-opening surprise to most newbs. If he wanted to end up looking like Jason Statham or some random slightly-smaller dude, he might end up in the lean 170-180 range, after being closer to 190-200 for a while…[/quote]
This was a good post.

Are you saying that a trainer may have to go through some period where they do not look ideal in order to reach their end goal?
[/quote][/quote]


Okay…

To be clear, when I wrote that, I also quoted and was replying to a comment you had posted:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am just making it clear that yes, working on gaining body weight should be a goal in itself along with making sure most of it is muscle.[/quote]
I definitely agree that the end goal is, overall, more important than the middle steps it takes to get there. It’s why basic goalsetting involves making a long-term goal, then working backwards to determine the short and mid-term goals/steps needed to get there.

But I disagree with your statement “working on gaining bodyweight should be a goal in itself”. It’s inaccurate to say that gaining bodyweight should be the goal. The goal should be the goal, and that’s most often going to involve gaining bodyweight (presuming the long-term goal involves being more muscular).

This could be us misunderstanding/miscommunicating again, but stating “gaining bodyweight should be a goal in itself” could easily be misunderstood as “if the number on the scale is going up, you’re doing good.” Instead, I’d say it’s important to treat several methods of progress-tracking fairly equal (depending on the individual lifter’s exact goal): tracking measurements/tape measuring, what the scale says, what the mirror shows/how clothes fit, and performance in the gym. The combination of those will help keep someone on track better than overfocusing on any one of them.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
Bodyweight gain is going to coincide with most appearance-based goals. The majority of the time, a lifter will have to gain weight (at least temporarily) in order to end up looking better, whatever “looking better” means to them.

If that 6’2" 170-pound guy wants to end up looking like Vin Diesel, I’d make it clear that he’s really looking to add 40+ pounds in the long-term. That’s definitely an eye-opening surprise to most newbs. If he wanted to end up looking like Jason Statham or some random slightly-smaller dude, he might end up in the lean 170-180 range, after being closer to 190-200 for a while…[/quote]
This was a good post.

Are you saying that a trainer may have to go through some period where they do not look ideal in order to reach their end goal?
[/quote][/quote]


Okay…

To be clear, when I wrote that, I also quoted and was replying to a comment you had posted:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am just making it clear that yes, working on gaining body weight should be a goal in itself along with making sure most of it is muscle.[/quote]
I definitely agree that the end goal is, overall, more important than the middle steps it takes to get there. It’s why basic goalsetting involves making a long-term goal, then working backwards to determine the short and mid-term goals/steps needed to get there.

But I disagree with your statement “working on gaining bodyweight should be a goal in itself”. It’s inaccurate to say that gaining bodyweight should be the goal. The goal should be the goal, and that’s most often going to involve gaining bodyweight (presuming the long-term goal involves being more muscular).

This could be us misunderstanding/miscommunicating again, but stating “gaining bodyweight should be a goal in itself” could easily be misunderstood as “if the number on the scale is going up, you’re doing good.” Instead, I’d say it’s important to treat several methods of progress-tracking fairly equal (depending on the individual lifter’s exact goal): tracking measurements/tape measuring, what the scale says, what the mirror shows/how clothes fit, and performance in the gym. The combination of those will help keep someone on track better than overfocusing on any one of them.[/quote]

As a general comment, I’m very hesitant to post in this forum. It seems to have become X vs the World and the World vs. X, and, frankly, that sucks.

I don’t think it’s what the crew had in mind when they created it, but if this is what the BSL forum ends up becoming - with every new thread referencing arguments from an old thread and eventually spiraling into “same shit, different thread title” - then it’s going to be entirely the fault of those who participate.

Good threads can happen if the forum members choose to create them. Shitstorms can happen if the forum members choose to create them.

And yes, I now feel like an old man telling whippersnappers to shape up and fly right. Whatever.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
As a general comment, I’m very hesitant to post in this forum. It seems to have become X vs the World and the World vs. X, and, frankly, that sucks.

I don’t think it’s what the crew had in mind when they created it, but if that’s what the BSL forum ends up becoming - with every new thread referencing arguments from an old thread and eventually spiraling into “same shit, different thread title” - then it’s going to be entirely the fault of those who participate.

Good threads can happen if the forum members choose to create them. Shitstorms can happen if the forum members choose to create them.

And yes, I now feel like an old man telling whippersnappers to shape up and fly right. Whatever.[/quote]

Completely agree. There are many who are guilty, not just one or two.

[quote]cally wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
As a general comment, I’m very hesitant to post in this forum. It seems to have become X vs the World and the World vs. X, and, frankly, that sucks.

I don’t think it’s what the crew had in mind when they created it, but if that’s what the BSL forum ends up becoming - with every new thread referencing arguments from an old thread and eventually spiraling into “same shit, different thread title” - then it’s going to be entirely the fault of those who participate.

Good threads can happen if the forum members choose to create them. Shitstorms can happen if the forum members choose to create them.

And yes, I now feel like an old man telling whippersnappers to shape up and fly right. Whatever.[/quote]

Completely agree. There are many who are guilty, not just one or two. [/quote]
But! But… On the bright side I’m pretty sure the bodybuilding forum is better than ever since BSL’s inception.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
As a general comment, I’m very hesitant to post in this forum. It seems to have become X vs the World and the World vs. X, and, frankly, that sucks.

I don’t think it’s what the crew had in mind when they created it, but if this is what the BSL forum ends up becoming - with every new thread referencing arguments from an old thread and eventually spiraling into “same shit, different thread title” - then it’s going to be entirely the fault of those who participate.

Good threads can happen if the forum members choose to create them. Shitstorms can happen if the forum members choose to create them.

And yes, I now feel like an old man telling whippersnappers to shape up and fly right. Whatever.[/quote]

Completely agree. The last thread became 10 guys trying to convince X he is wrong and for what purpose? Obviously the majority of this site (at least the active portion) disagree with X on that particular subject. No amount of “clarifying” anyone’s positions is going to change the other side’s mind.

I mean, it’s not like we didn’t see all sides of everyone’s argument by page 25 in that thread.

Both sides need to learn a little “Ok, agree to disagree” and move on.

(I was not heavily involved in the last thread but at times I could use a bit more of that myself).

[quote]csulli wrote:
But! But… On the bright side I’m pretty sure the bodybuilding forum is better than ever since BSL’s inception.[/quote]

^this is easily the best argument for having the BSL forum.

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
The last thread became 10 guys trying to convince X he is wrong and for what purpose? Obviously the majority of this site (at least the active portion) disagree with X on that particular subject.[/quote]
Can you clarify for my sake? I am legitimately a bit confused on what the subject of disagreement was. Is it that you shouldn’t have size in and of itself as a goal?

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:
But! But… On the bright side I’m pretty sure the bodybuilding forum is better than ever since BSL’s inception.[/quote]

^this is easily the best argument for having the BSL forum.[/quote]

Agreed.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
The last thread became 10 guys trying to convince X he is wrong and for what purpose? Obviously the majority of this site (at least the active portion) disagree with X on that particular subject.[/quote]
Can you clarify for my sake? I am legitimately a bit confused on what the subject of disagreement was. Is it that you shouldn’t have size in and of itself as a goal?[/quote]

Read: insulin sensitivty

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
The last thread became 10 guys trying to convince X he is wrong and for what purpose? Obviously the majority of this site (at least the active portion) disagree with X on that particular subject.[/quote]
Can you clarify for my sake? I am legitimately a bit confused on what the subject of disagreement was. Is it that you shouldn’t have size in and of itself as a goal?[/quote]

Read: insulin sensitivty[/quote]
Ah okay. So really we need to make a thread about insulin.

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:
As a general comment, I’m very hesitant to post in this forum. It seems to have become X vs the World and the World vs. X, and, frankly, that sucks.

I don’t think it’s what the crew had in mind when they created it, but if this is what the BSL forum ends up becoming - with every new thread referencing arguments from an old thread and eventually spiraling into “same shit, different thread title” - then it’s going to be entirely the fault of those who participate.

Good threads can happen if the forum members choose to create them. Shitstorms can happen if the forum members choose to create them.

And yes, I now feel like an old man telling whippersnappers to shape up and fly right. Whatever.[/quote]
But on some level the participants seem to enjoy or why else would they continue…then there’s the entertainment value. I mean, what else would I do at work?? Actually work?? lol.

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]Maiden3.16 wrote:

[quote]csulli wrote:

[quote]LankyMofo wrote:
The last thread became 10 guys trying to convince X he is wrong and for what purpose? Obviously the majority of this site (at least the active portion) disagree with X on that particular subject.[/quote]
Can you clarify for my sake? I am legitimately a bit confused on what the subject of disagreement was. Is it that you shouldn’t have size in and of itself as a goal?[/quote]

Read: insulin sensitivty[/quote]
Ah okay. So really we need to make a thread about insulin.[/quote]

No one is stopping you. However, in a discussion of adding bodyweight the subject of insulin sensitivity comes up. Far from being off-topic if that is what you are suggesting.