The Body Weight Factor 2

Bigger Stronger Leaner
1

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Chris Colucci wrote:

Bodyweight gain is going to coincide with most appearance-based goals. The majority of the time, a lifter will have to gain weight (at least temporarily) in order to end up looking better, whatever “looking better” means to them.

If that 6’2" 170-pound guy wants to end up looking like Vin Diesel, I’d make it clear that he’s really looking to add 40+ pounds in the long-term. That’s definitely an eye-opening surprise to most newbs. If he wanted to end up looking like Jason Statham or some random slightly-smaller dude, he might end up in the lean 170-180 range, after being closer to 190-200 for a while…[/quote]

This was a good post.

Are you saying that a trainer may have to go through some period where they do not look ideal in order to reach their end goal?
[/quote]

2

Good idea to start a new thread. You didn’t get a chance to respond to this in the other one. Now both you and Chris can make responses.

Professor X wrote:
It is the same people also all of the time. It has been 3 whole years of them acting like this…so it isn’t because I am writing anything so horrible that it is forcing them to act like this.

It is simply a bunch of facebook friends who leap together all of the time for the same action.

That’s just not true. People respond to you the way they do because of the way you present yourself here, and that’s it. You can make all the excuses you want for your own personal accountability, but in the end it is simple - you reap what you sow.

Just the other day you said you were being civil to me, so why did I have an attitude with you? First off - your idea of civil is hilarious - if that’s “civil” I’d hate to see you being “not civil” and second - you’ve been obnoxious to me for years on this site, so you feel the slate is wiped clean with each new post? Of course not.

It’s funny how we used to get along just fine when I agreed with everything you said - lots of “Good progress” and “Great post” from you when I agreed completely, but when I started to disagree with some of your ideas, all of a sudden I was a “troll” with “no progress” - and I’m not the only one.

And I don’t even disagree with you on most of this - I think you should carry as much BF as you’re comfortable with and no one should give you shit for it. You HAVE built an extremely large, impressive physique - no doubt about that. But when you make claims of being over 300 pounds and “not fat” - well, there’s Dorian Yates, at similar height and weight - and you are clearly carrying nowhere near that amount of muscle, so how can you make those claims? Not to mention, you fight with everyone on this site - you draw them into arguments and then twist it around saying they stalk you - it’s just that kind of thing that really turns people off.

I mean, just look at these threads - you literally have 30 people telling you this, and you ignore it, but then some random with 40 posts and no avatar agrees with you, and you jump all over that as proof that you’re right - and the worst part is you are the first one to tell people to post pics and be accountable, but when people like that agree with you, it’s all good and you make no complaints about them not having pictures.

Not to mention, I have extended the olive branch to you many times, only to have you piss on it. So the bottom line is you can’t expect to talk down to a bunch of grown men, and then have them just accept that. But you do that every single day here, and then twist it all to lay the blame on everyone else.

That’s not going to sit well with most people, and that’s why these threads turn to shit, not because a bunch of “Facebook friends” are out to get you simply for the sheer joy of it.

3

The description of your uncle you gave out earlier also fits for someone getting diabetes 1 since diabetes 1 comes upon suddenly and can happen in adulthood though it’s less prevalent but is becoming more common.

[quote]Professor X wrote:My uncle wasn’t “diseased” his whole life UNTIL he was diagnosed with diabetes.
[/quote]
This description made it sound like he wasn’t prediabetic and suddenly got it.

As an analogy Diabetes 2 “isn’t” supposed to be common among young kids and teens but it still happens and makes up most of a Pediatric Endocrinologist time who I know very well.

Just wondering how your uncle is managing his diabetes 2 is he just taking glucophage, weight management, healthy diet and exercise or is he also taking in exogenous insulin?

4

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
The description of your uncle you gave out earlier also fits for someone getting diabetes 1 since diabetes 1 comes upon suddenly and can happen in adulthood though it’s less prevalent but is becoming more common.

[quote]Professor X wrote:My uncle wasn’t “diseased” his whole life UNTIL he was diagnosed with diabetes.
[/quote]
This description made it sound like he wasn’t prediabetic and suddenly got it.

As an analogy Diabetes 2 “isn’t” supposed to be common among young kids and teens but it still happens and makes up most of a Pediatric Endocrinologist time who I know very well.

Just wondering how your uncle is managing his diabetes 2 is he just taking glucophage, weight management, healthy diet and exercise or is he also taking in exogenous insulin?[/quote]

This thread is not about my uncle. You can start a new thread all about my uncle if you wish.

5

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
The description of your uncle you gave out earlier also fits for someone getting diabetes 1 since diabetes 1 comes upon suddenly and can happen in adulthood though it’s less prevalent but is becoming more common.

[quote]Professor X wrote:My uncle wasn’t “diseased” his whole life UNTIL he was diagnosed with diabetes.
[/quote]
This description made it sound like he wasn’t prediabetic and suddenly got it.

As an analogy Diabetes 2 “isn’t” supposed to be common among young kids and teens but it still happens and makes up most of a Pediatric Endocrinologist time who I know very well.

Just wondering how your uncle is managing his diabetes 2 is he just taking glucophage, weight management, healthy diet and exercise or is he also taking in exogenous insulin?[/quote]

I didn’t think they still prescribed exogenous insulin for D2? I just learned somethin!

6

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:
The description of your uncle you gave out earlier also fits for someone getting diabetes 1 since diabetes 1 comes upon suddenly and can happen in adulthood though it’s less prevalent but is becoming more common.

[quote]Professor X wrote:My uncle wasn’t “diseased” his whole life UNTIL he was diagnosed with diabetes.
[/quote]
This description made it sound like he wasn’t prediabetic and suddenly got it.

As an analogy Diabetes 2 “isn’t” supposed to be common among young kids and teens but it still happens and makes up most of a Pediatric Endocrinologist time who I know very well.

Just wondering how your uncle is managing his diabetes 2 is he just taking glucophage, weight management, healthy diet and exercise or is he also taking in exogenous insulin?[/quote]

This thread is not about my uncle. You can start a new thread all about my uncle if you wish.[/quote]
Just responding to your response in the previous thread.

7

[quote]While I think now I will be able to put on muscle with minimal fat gain, for the last year it really helped for me to bulk and put on more fat than would be “ideal.”

I think the real question would be, could I have made the same gains if I did something like IIFYM and added 50-100 grams to my “maintenance” levels? I think I could, but to be honest I didn’t have the knowledge to do that when I started last year. I think the whole initial overbulk thing works, but isn’t ideal. For noobs, moving forward is the key, while optimization comes later. It’s probably not even a big deal because progress is pretty fast/easy for noobs like myself. [/quote]

From the last thread.

I agree with what browndisaster is saying. I bulked to a very pudgy 220 to really push the gains. I regret doing so, although I learned a lot from the experience. I was pretty strong at that weight, but I am stronger now and only 5-10 lbs lighter, with at least 10% less bodyfat. Initially, I think it can be a beneficial experience to push weight, but I know damn sure that I am never going to do that again. Staying leaner now has much more benefits than when I was overbulking since I am much more knowledgeable. With optimization, you can have your cake and eat it too, so to speak.

8

[quote]JoabSonOfZeruiah wrote:

Just responding to your response in the previous thread.[/quote]

That is very clear. However, this thread isn’t about my uncle and the other thread was not about my uncle. Coming into this thread to ONLY discuss my uncle makes little sense. You can start a new thread all about my uncle so the rest of us can discuss the actual thread topic.

9

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]While I think now I will be able to put on muscle with minimal fat gain, for the last year it really helped for me to bulk and put on more fat than would be “ideal.”

I think the real question would be, could I have made the same gains if I did something like IIFYM and added 50-100 grams to my “maintenance” levels? I think I could, but to be honest I didn’t have the knowledge to do that when I started last year. I think the whole initial overbulk thing works, but isn’t ideal. For noobs, moving forward is the key, while optimization comes later. It’s probably not even a big deal because progress is pretty fast/easy for noobs like myself. [/quote]

From the last thread.

I agree with what browndisaster is saying. I bulked to a very pudgy 220 to really push the gains. I regret doing so, although I learned a lot from the experience. I was pretty strong at that weight, but I am stronger now and only 5-10 lbs lighter, with at least 10% less bodyfat. Initially, I think it can be a beneficial experience to push weight, but I know damn sure that I am never going to do that again. Staying leaner now has much more benefits than when I was overbulking since I am much more knowledgeable. With optimization, you can have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. [/quote]

If your goal is to reach a level that is “extreme” to most people and you have the genetics for this, I often see this as part of the journey unless extremely gifted in the ability to stay lean while gaining body weight at all times.

The benefits include increased strength (which again can mean more muscle gain)
Making sure the body is being fed enough to grow optimally and the possibility of fascial stretching which can be debated but I do has some scientific merit.

10

ha this really needed a continuation? Proof that youre just out to stir the pot. Move on, it can’t be good for your mental health. For anyones mental health really. This is a board full of opinions and not all will jive with your ideals. Who the fuck cares. I thought we already came to this conclusion. Lift for yourself and fuck the rest. Give it up already.

11

…and to make a point, I have seen others write that you can not “force feed” muscles.

No one here that I have seen believes you can…but to ignore that you may build more if you are stronger (even if by body weight alone) and that this could lead to more muscle gains in the long run would seem to be a mistaken way to look at this for those with extreme goals.

12

For the record, I said you, but I wasnt directing that at any one individual in particular. Im not part of anyones facebook posse or whatever the kids are calling it these days.

13

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and to make a point, I have seen others write that you can not “force feed” muscles.

No one here that I have seen believes you can…but to ignore that you may build more if you are stronger (even if by body weight alone) and that this could lead to more muscle gains in the long run would seem to be a mistaken way to look at this for those with extreme goals.[/quote]

14

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and to make a point, I have seen others write that you can not “force feed” muscles.

No one here that I have seen believes you can…but to ignore that you may build more if you are stronger (even if by body weight alone) and that this could lead to more muscle gains in the long run would seem to be a mistaken way to look at this for those with extreme goals.[/quote]
[/quote]

This is a fair point and I would agree with it. But did it need to be reposted a minute after it was already posted? Patience man, patience.

15

[quote]SkyNett wrote:
And I don’t even disagree with you on most of this - I think you should carry as much BF as you’re comfortable with and no one should give you shit for it. [/quote]

Heh, so its only a free country until feelings get involved??

In reality, no one should be overly concerned with subjective opinions of anonymous interneters.

16

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]While I think now I will be able to put on muscle with minimal fat gain, for the last year it really helped for me to bulk and put on more fat than would be “ideal.”

I think the real question would be, could I have made the same gains if I did something like IIFYM and added 50-100 grams to my “maintenance” levels? I think I could, but to be honest I didn’t have the knowledge to do that when I started last year. I think the whole initial overbulk thing works, but isn’t ideal. For noobs, moving forward is the key, while optimization comes later. It’s probably not even a big deal because progress is pretty fast/easy for noobs like myself. [/quote]

From the last thread.

I agree with what browndisaster is saying. I bulked to a very pudgy 220 to really push the gains. I regret doing so, although I learned a lot from the experience. I was pretty strong at that weight, but I am stronger now and only 5-10 lbs lighter, with at least 10% less bodyfat. Initially, I think it can be a beneficial experience to push weight, but I know damn sure that I am never going to do that again. Staying leaner now has much more benefits than when I was overbulking since I am much more knowledgeable. With optimization, you can have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. [/quote]
yeah, in the first year of training I think my calories went too high when gaining, and too low when cutting. Tracking my macros these past couple months has helped me gain strength FASTER than before and actually lean out while doing so.

17

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]While I think now I will be able to put on muscle with minimal fat gain, for the last year it really helped for me to bulk and put on more fat than would be “ideal.”

I think the real question would be, could I have made the same gains if I did something like IIFYM and added 50-100 grams to my “maintenance” levels? I think I could, but to be honest I didn’t have the knowledge to do that when I started last year. I think the whole initial overbulk thing works, but isn’t ideal. For noobs, moving forward is the key, while optimization comes later. It’s probably not even a big deal because progress is pretty fast/easy for noobs like myself. [/quote]

From the last thread.

I agree with what browndisaster is saying. I bulked to a very pudgy 220 to really push the gains. I regret doing so, although I learned a lot from the experience. I was pretty strong at that weight, but I am stronger now and only 5-10 lbs lighter, with at least 10% less bodyfat. Initially, I think it can be a beneficial experience to push weight, but I know damn sure that I am never going to do that again. Staying leaner now has much more benefits than when I was overbulking since I am much more knowledgeable. With optimization, you can have your cake and eat it too, so to speak. [/quote]

If your goal is to reach a level that is “extreme” to most people and you have the genetics for this, I often see this as part of the journey unless extremely gifted in the ability to stay lean while gaining body weight at all times.

The benefits include increased strength (which again can mean more muscle gain)
Making sure the body is being fed enough to grow optimally and the possibility of fascial stretching which can be debated but I do has some scientific merit.
[/quote]
lolz remember when saw you marbled fat in a cadaver’s muscle, and also when you bulked up to 300 lbs and hit a 1x BW sumo deadlift.

good times, I’m glad we can relive them in every single thread

18

[quote]cally wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and to make a point, I have seen others write that you can not “force feed” muscles.

No one here that I have seen believes you can…but to ignore that you may build more if you are stronger (even if by body weight alone) and that this could lead to more muscle gains in the long run would seem to be a mistaken way to look at this for those with extreme goals.[/quote]
[/quote]

This is a fair point and I would agree with it. But did it need to be reposted a minute after it was already posted? Patience man, patience. [/quote]

If you agree with it then you see the need for the thread…and yes, there is a reason to repost it because I am making it clear that all of the usual nonsense is not wanted here.

There are people right on this board who have stated that you can NOT force feed muscles…as if anyone of us is saying you can outside of genetic ability.

All you can do is provide your body with everything it needs to grow so that when IT is ready to do all of that growing, it can do so optimally.

Changing the benefit of increased strength from leverage into “you guys are telling everyone to get fat” is why this thread exists.

In that sense, yes, you may be able to “force feed” some muscle gain, just not in the sense that those people implied.

19

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]cally wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:

[quote]Professor X wrote:
…and to make a point, I have seen others write that you can not “force feed” muscles.

No one here that I have seen believes you can…but to ignore that you may build more if you are stronger (even if by body weight alone) and that this could lead to more muscle gains in the long run would seem to be a mistaken way to look at this for those with extreme goals.[/quote]
[/quote]

This is a fair point and I would agree with it. But did it need to be reposted a minute after it was already posted? Patience man, patience. [/quote]

If you agree with it then you see the need for the thread…and yes, there is a reason to repost it because I am making it clear that all of the usual nonsense is not wanted here.

There are people right on this board who have stated that you can NOT force feed muscles…as if anyone of us is saying you can.

All you can do is provide your body with everything it needs to grow so that when IT is ready to do all of that growing, it can do so optimally.

Changing the benefit of increased strength from leverage into “you guys are telling everyone to get fat” is why this thread exists.

In that sense, yes, you may be able to “force feed” some muscle gain, just not in the sense that those people implied.[/quote]
I would agree, you can’t force feed muscles, but you can give them more than enough to grow. I think the approach is just different in that some of us (inarguably the best of us) track our macros and bump up the calories well over what we need to maintain weight, while you’re kind of winging it because school stress, motorcycle accident, etc.

20

You care too much about your own beliefs, whether they’re correct or not. Who cares if people stated that you cant force feed muscles? Really, who cares? Focus on making yourself better and move on with your life. You make some excellent points, just poorly conveyed which causes the controversy. Take out the emotion and I think you would have a lot more people agreeing with you.