T Nation

The Best Advice for Gyno Symptoms?


#1

if someone is getting gyno symptoms from 500mg of test per week and taking adex to fix it

could he move up to 750mg per week to get better gains ?

would the gyno get worse and would the adex still be able to control it at 750mg ?


#2

Do you understand how you get ‘gyno’ from injecting Test, or how ‘adex’ works to fix this?

If so - you will have the answer to your own question. Not trying to be a smart-arse (it’s a natural gift…), just trying to help you understand why this question should never need to be asked by an intelligent AAS user…

:wink:


#3

The dosage of Adex will be proportionate to the amount of T used. The amount of adex needed in different individuals will vary but more adex is needed as more T is used regardless of the starting point.

More T means more aromatase activity. This means that more adex is needed. If you are using .25mg/d of adex for 500mg/wk you can try .5mg/d for 750mg/wk.

EDIT

Another option is to keep the T at 500 and add a non-aromatizing drug.


#4

I would add that you should get gyno under control before raising testosterone dose.


#5

its not me thank god ,i can take 1000mg+ per week without need for adex

someone just asked me whether he could/should increase his test or would the gyno get out of conytrol so i told him il check

some people cant get to grips with teh internetz yet!


#6

[quote]ironmiketyson wrote:
its not me thank god ,i can take 1000mg+ per week without need for adex
[/quote]

And you will still have an estrogen level that is going to cause problems eventually at 1000mg Test/wk - you are simply not susceptible to Gynocomastia - that is NO reason not to use an AI mate.

Be advised.


#7

[quote] Brook wrote:
ironmiketyson wrote:
its not me thank god ,i can take 1000mg+ per week without need for adex

And you will still have an estrogen level that is going to cause problems eventually at 1000mg Test/wk - you are simply not susceptible to Gynocomastia - that is NO reason not to use an AI mate.

Be advised.[/quote]

i do occasionally use adex but generally not suffering from gyno or bloat symptoms i can get away without it

the guy i train with gets gyno flare ups around the 450mg+ point so its a bit more important for him


#8

[quote]ironmiketyson wrote:
Brook wrote:
ironmiketyson wrote:
its not me thank god ,i can take 1000mg+ per week without need for adex

And you will still have an estrogen level that is going to cause problems eventually at 1000mg Test/wk - you are simply not susceptible to Gynocomastia - that is NO reason not to use an AI mate.

Be advised.

i do occasionally use adex but generally not suffering from gyno or bloat symptoms i can get away without it

the guy i train with gets gyno flare ups around the 450mg+ point so its a bit more important for him
[/quote]

Estrogen has more negative effects when allowed to climb uncontrolled than just Gyno and water retention. I am sorry if that wasn’t clear - it was supposed to be :slight_smile:

Best,

JJ


#9

I am on my 5th week of a cycle running 500mg Sust and 500mg Deca a week. 1st 4 weeks used Dbol.
I got sides after 4 weeks.
Tender nipples and HUGE bloating. Look like the Michelin Man
Didn’t have an AI (very stupidly). Had to get some Letro. It took a friggin week to get, though the sides didn’t get worse, than God.

Started today with .50mg. Hoping it’s gonna cure the bloat.

I also want to increase my Test dose, to 750mg per week. Same predicament as the OP.

Do I trust the Letro and up the Test now, or wait until the sides have subsided first?


#10

Better let sides subside first. Better safe than sorry…

[quote]shaun1rsa wrote:
I am on my 5th week of a cycle running 500mg Sust and 500mg Deca a week. 1st 4 weeks used Dbol.
I got sides after 4 weeks.
Tender nipples and HUGE bloating. Look like the Michelin Man
Didn’t have an AI (very stupidly). Had to get some Letro. It took a friggin week to get, though the sides didn’t get worse, than God.

Started today with .50mg. Hoping it’s gonna cure the bloat.

I also want to increase my Test dose, to 750mg per week. Same predicament as the OP.

Do I trust the Letro and up the Test now, or wait until the sides have subsided first?[/quote]


#11

[quote]shaun1rsa wrote:
I am on my 5th week of a cycle running 500mg Sust and 500mg Deca a week. 1st 4 weeks used Dbol.
I got sides after 4 weeks.
Tender nipples and HUGE bloating. Look like the Michelin Man
Didn’t have an AI (very stupidly). Had to get some Letro. It took a friggin week to get, though the sides didn’t get worse, than God.

Started today with .50mg. Hoping it’s gonna cure the bloat.

I also want to increase my Test dose, to 750mg per week. Same predicament as the OP.

Do I trust the Letro and up the Test now, or wait until the sides have subsided first?[/quote]

Well, you are running a very HIGH (IMO) Nandrolone dose. This wouldn’t hurt to reduce to 300mg IMO - the libido loss during/after cycle (test will not help) will be murder.
Source some caber - you may find it helpful if you find that you still have no desire for sex after PCT… Just a heads up - it may not be a problem. It wasn’t for me until a few Deca cycles (although as soon as i ran over 3-400mg/wk it became problematic…).

I find that with 1g Test, 500mg tren (read Deca) and 300mg Dbol i need as much as 1mg/day.
With 500mg Test a week i use just 0.5mg/day.

Your dosages will likely be different, BUT it may help you to know what i use.

With 200mg/wk of Test i use just 0.25mg/day.

I think if you keep the Deca at 400mg and increase the Test (if this is for a better libido - it may well do fuck all) then you may want to run 1mg/day for a week and reduce to 0.5mg if you want/feel the need after that.

JMO - not carved in stone.


#12

[quote] Brook wrote:
shaun1rsa wrote:
I am on my 5th week of a cycle running 500mg Sust and 500mg Deca a week. 1st 4 weeks used Dbol.
I got sides after 4 weeks.
Tender nipples and HUGE bloating. Look like the Michelin Man
Didn’t have an AI (very stupidly). Had to get some Letro. It took a friggin week to get, though the sides didn’t get worse, than God.

Started today with .50mg. Hoping it’s gonna cure the bloat.

I also want to increase my Test dose, to 750mg per week. Same predicament as the OP.

Do I trust the Letro and up the Test now, or wait until the sides have subsided first?

Well, you are running a very HIGH (IMO) Nandrolone dose. This wouldn’t hurt to reduce to 300mg IMO - the libido loss during/after cycle (test will not help) will be murder.
Source some caber - you may find it helpful if you find that you still have no desire for sex after PCT… Just a heads up - it may not be a problem. It wasn’t for me until a few Deca cycles (although as soon as i ran over 3-400mg/wk it became problematic…).

I find that with 1g Test, 500mg tren (read Deca) and 300mg Dbol i need as much as 1mg/day.
With 500mg Test a week i use just 0.5mg/day.

Your dosages will likely be different, BUT it may help you to know what i use.

With 200mg/wk of Test i use just 0.25mg/day.

I think if you keep the Deca at 400mg and increase the Test (if this is for a better libido - it may well do fuck all) then you may want to run 1mg/day for a week and reduce to 0.5mg if you want/feel the need after that.

JMO - not carved in stone.[/quote]

Thanks Hum, Brook, helpful as always.

I am following the protocol set out in the Gyno Sticky in these forums that says ramp the Letro dose up to 2.5mg pd (from .5 pd) until the symptoms stop. Carry on for another week to make sure, then taper back down again.

I just saw on another post, that Bill Roberts says that’s way too much. I am getting very confused now.

Also, with the Decca, I was given that protocol by the guy who supplied me, 500mg Decca a week with 500mg Sust. I argued with him but he was adamant that 100’s of his clients use that protocol and it works. I wanted to do 750mg Test and 300mg per week Decca.

I am worried if I drop the Decca dosage now, that I will be diminishing my first cycle somewhat?

Can I up the Test now and drop the Decca a bit, or wait for the bloating and sore nipples to go away first? Seems that this the way to go.


#13

Just because it gives results - doesn’t mean it is best.

2g of Test and 1g of Deca will give results, would you run that? No.

It is recommended to stay at a given dosage one a cycle is started, BUT i personally do not think there is anything wrong with reducing the dosage if you feel it is better (usually relating to sides). 300mg Deca is plenty for most. It is a very effective drug… :wink:

500 of any Test’rone is also enough. 500mg Test is plenty for a number of cycles…

I at one time, and many others have suggested that 2mg/lb bodyweight is a good dose for (Nandrolone) Deca, and i agree to a degree… i do find that prolactin needs to be controlled when using this drug, and i used to find that 200mg/wk gave me gains and a PRO-sexual benefit, while over this gave me sexual dysfunction. This is personal i suspect.


#14

[quote] Brook wrote:
Just because it gives results - doesn’t mean it is best.

2g of Test and 1g of Deca will give results, would you run that? No.

It is recommended to stay at a given dosage one a cycle is started, BUT i personally do not think there is anything wrong with reducing the dosage if you feel it is better (usually relating to sides). 300mg Deca is plenty for most. It is a very effective drug… :wink:

500 of any Test’rone is also enough. 500mg Test is plenty for a number of cycles…

I at one time, and many others have suggested that 2mg/lb bodyweight is a good dose for (Nandrolone) Deca, and i agree to a degree… i do find that prolactin needs to be controlled when using this drug, and i used to find that 200mg/wk gave me gains and a PRO-sexual benefit, while over this gave me sexual dysfunction. This is personal i suspect.[/quote]

Thanks Brook
I will reduce the next Deca dose (tomorrow). Do I stay on the Letro dosages for another week? If not, what dosages do you recommend?


#15

I don’t know if that is necessary or not - hopefully BR will pipe in, i suspect he is the only person here who has done it and researched it enough to advise properly.

I personally would drop to 1mg or so a day, and that IMO is more than enough to put Estrogen low enough on cycle.


#16

[quote] Brook wrote:
I don’t know if that is necessary or not - hopefully BR will pipe in, i suspect he is the only person here who has done it and researched it enough to advise properly.

I personally would drop to 1mg or so a day, and that IMO is more than enough to put Estrogen low enough on cycle.[/quote]

Thanks mate.

I only took it up to that dosage because the sides had already started. On the gyno sticky, that’s what they recommend to get rid of the sides. And I must say, I’ve seen a clear improvement. So I’m going to start reducing the dose from tomorrow. Although the sticky does say to maintain that high dose of Letro for 4 to 7 days to make sure.