The Beginning

Had my Dr. visit yesterday and I went in with a ton of literature from STTM about RT3 and a history of labs showing that it was a problem for me. He instantly got pissed and told me that RT3 is not an issue and can’t be controled. He then insisted that my TSH of 2.79 is just fine even after the ENT Dr. wrote him a letter that it needs to be 1.0 or less.
After complaining long enough he agreed to do labs and said we could try some T3 treatment after the results and we could try and hit a TSH of .5-1.0. So we’ll see.
If I have no luck with him I atleast got labs to show results after 3.5wks of 3 grains/day so I can make adjustments on my own.

Can a person have tests ran for Hoshimotos and graves while they are on thyroid meds or do you need to come completely off. Im on meds and still have the imflamation issue and he states that I need to be off all meds for 1 month in order to test and I don’t understand why if the issue is still there.

Well PureChance we were absolutely correct with my starting dose of prop being to high. Before fixing my Thyroid I took 150mgTest E/wk and it gave me results of the high 600’s, so thats why we started with a higher dose on the prop. Now after being on 12.5mcg T3 every 4hrs awake for 5wks and my TRT protocol of 30mg Test prop/day. 12.5mg Aromasin E3D, and 250Ius of HCG 2x/wk my results are
TT 1925
FT 588
E2 20
So fixing my thyroid has made a huge difference. All doses will stay the same except the Test which will be lowered down to 24mgs/day which is 42mg/wk less. My target levels are TT 1100-1200 and FT 250 and up Estrogen in my opinion is good. Today is only day 3 on the lower dose and I actually feel better not so pumped all the time. I will hold this dose for another 4-5wks and retest to see if we lowered enough. After years of trying to get this all figured out I feel the best I ever have and I think I’m extremely close to my goal now.

I found your thread after you posted in KSMan’s thread, I didn’t want to clog his.

A) Are you still feeling better?
B) More importantly - did you ever test for hashi’s? Flooding your body with thyroid hormones while you’re on hashi’s can cause exactly what you described (feel better, then worse)

[quote]railrider1980 wrote:
Had my Dr. visit yesterday and I went in with a ton of literature from STTM about RT3 and a history of labs showing that it was a problem for me. He instantly got pissed and told me that RT3 is not an issue and can’t be controled. He then insisted that my TSH of 2.79 is just fine even after the ENT Dr. wrote him a letter that it needs to be 1.0 or less.
After complaining long enough he agreed to do labs and said we could try some T3 treatment after the results and we could try and hit a TSH of .5-1.0. So we’ll see.
If I have no luck with him I atleast got labs to show results after 3.5wks of 3 grains/day so I can make adjustments on my own. [/quote]

RT3 can be controlled by taking t3-only. t3-only causes your body to downregulate T4 production, which is the precursor to RT3.

Yes I am feeling very well. I droped the Nature Throid and started a T3 only protocol of 12.5mcg every 4hrs while awake. All my symptoms have gone. I have dropped my Test Prop dose down to 20mg/day due to my very high levels and I actually just got my pharma grade T3 instead of a research chem so in 4-5wks when I retest I will add the thyroid tests. I do have 1 question. Since I’m taking a T3 only should I even bother with the TT4 and FT4 tests or just stick with FT3 and TT3. No I have not been tested for Hoshimotos should I also request that at the time of testing.

Update Dr. is now wanting me to try HCG monotherapy and I’m all for it if it works. So I got my scripts filled today for both HCG and Aromasin. The Aromasin is being dosed the same as with TRT @ 12.5mg E3D, but he changed his mind on the HCG dose. I’m a little nervous that he raised the dose to 500ius daily. I contacted him about the increase and he’s wanting to do this for the first 4wks since i’ve been on exo T for so long. He said we will then do blood work and adjust dose accordingly. His labs will include TT FT and E2. So he’s atleast concerned about E.

I read alot about over stimulation and the damage it can cause. I don’t want to piss this guy off by doing a lower dose on my own as I can tell he actually gives a shit. Will this high dose be ok for a short amount of time for him to see what its going to do to me? I did notice that shippen notes he uses this amount for some indiviuals. Anybody with personal experience please chime in and share.

Whatever happened to:

[quote]
railrider1980 wrote:

So fixing my thyroid has made a huge difference. All doses will stay the same except the Test which will be lowered down to 24mgs/day which is 42mg/wk less. My target levels are TT 1100-1200 and FT 250 and up Estrogen in my opinion is good. Today is only day 3 on the lower dose and I actually feel better not so pumped all the time. I will hold this dose for another 4-5wks and retest to see if we lowered enough. After years of trying to get this all figured out I feel the best I ever have and I think I’m extremely close to my goal now. [/quote]

???

Why is your doc taking you off on a new direction? You didn’t mention anything about bloodwork or symptoms leading to this.

3,500 iu/day seems high to me, but I really don’t know what the threshold is for leydig desentiziation.

I would just ask him. Some questions that come to mind:
-Are you aware of leydig desensitization (if the answer is no, I would not continue…in fact, I’d work out and refuse copay)
-What levels of hcg cause this? What medical literature are you using to deduce this?
-How many patients do you have on this type of protocol? How are their results improved? Medical literature for this protocol?
-If 750 iu/week (in 3x divided doses of 250) maintains testicular function while patients are on TRT, why is 3,500 necessary?

[quote]railrider1980 wrote:
Can a person have tests ran for Hoshimotos and graves while they are on thyroid meds or do you need to come completely off. Im on meds and still have the imflamation issue and he states that I need to be off all meds for 1 month in order to test and I don’t understand why if the issue is still there.[/quote]

I have been taking meds for the past 6 months and still test positive for Hashimoto’s.

So I am not sure if you need to be off meds to test, in my case does not make any difference. Unless my doses are still too low to stop Hashimoto’s.

I have not been able to find any write up on how to stop Hashimoto or even if it is possible. The only way to stop it would be by adequate dosing of thyroid meds. But Endo says you can’t stop the antibodies from being produced. So again 2 conflicting stories.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Whatever happened to:

It sounds like you’ve got a pretty good handle on things. 5 weeks or so of that dose shouldn’t do much harm, though I really have no basis for that other than “feel” and belief that the body is more robust than we sometimes give it credit for.

If the hcg doesn’t work for increased sperm, ask your doctor about HMG instead. This is the compound which acts more directly on your FSH. In fact, I’ve seen a couple of guys who just added this to their exo T protocol. I believe NeelyDan was one such member, but there are others…

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
It sounds like you’ve got a pretty good handle on things. 5 weeks or so of that dose shouldn’t do much harm, though I really have no basis for that other than “feel” and belief that the body is more robust than we sometimes give it credit for.

If the hcg doesn’t work for increased sperm, ask your doctor about HMG instead. This is the compound which acts more directly on your FSH. In fact, I’ve seen a couple of guys who just added this to their exo T protocol. I believe NeelyDan was one such member, but there are others…[/quote]

I hope it goes well. Im going to keep a daily log of how I feel all day. I will remember to ask about the HMG if this dosen’t work. Thanks.

Today was day 7 @ 500ius/day and its diffinetely to much. Libido has lessoned and extreme lethargy has set in just like when I was on the clomid challenge. I’m going to switch from ED dosing to EOD and also lower it to 300Ius to see if things get any better. I feel pretty good by the end of the day when I dose the Aromasin and the day after, but then symptoms return. Im keeping a daily log to track my symtoms as I go.

So I’ve lowered the dose and my libido is pretty good and consistant. I have a major concern as today I pinched my right nipple and noticed some little drops of fluid not much but some is to much in my opinion. I then checked the left and got the same results. I’ve never experienced this before so Im pretty lost. I’ve left a message with the doc requesting lab work hopefully I hear back early monday. Can HCG cause your prolactin to rise. This is very disturbing.
Current protocol since 8-2-11
300ius HCG and 12.5mg Aromasin EOD.

[quote]railrider1980 wrote:
So I’ve lowered the dose and my libido is pretty good and consistant. I have a major concern as today I pinched my right nipple and noticed some little drops of fluid not much but some is to much in my opinion. I then checked the left and got the same results. I’ve never experienced this before so Im pretty lost. I’ve left a message with the doc requesting lab work hopefully I hear back early monday. Can HCG cause your prolactin to rise. This is very disturbing.
Current protocol since 8-2-11
300ius HCG and 12.5mg Aromasin EOD.[/quote]

I’m assuming you mistyped the aromasin dose there.

[quote]scj119 wrote:

I’m assuming you mistyped the aromasin dose there.[/quote]

Why? 12.5 mg aromasin EOD - E3D is standard.

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

[quote]scj119 wrote:

I’m assuming you mistyped the aromasin dose there.[/quote]

Why? 12.5 mg aromasin EOD - E3D is standard.[/quote]

Because I had a brain fart and read it as arimidex

Laying off the hcg for 1wk. I also noticed an extra bean size growth on my righ testicle. Hopefully it will get checked out asap.

So the results are in after the HCG treatment and very disappointing. My balls don’t work so well so I guess I don’t need to worry about them.

Total Test 93ng/dl (240-950)
Bio Test 29ng/dl (72-235)
E2 <20pg/ml
So since my balls don’t work Doc wants me to do Test E 100mg/wk and Aromasin 12.5mg E3D and retest in 2 months.

I find it strange that I was taking a more frequent dose of Aromasin at 12.5mg EOD, I was making little to no test but still the estrogen sides. So here we go again.

You don’t appear to have gotten the correct E2 test, but your E2 still appears to be pretty low. You were having the estrogenic sides because of your extremely low T levels making you estrogen dominant. It is very possible you won’t even need the Aromasin on your TRT. Personally, I would hold off on the Aromasin until your T levels have steadied and use your symptoms as a guide whether to pick it up or not (or wait 5-6 weeks for bloodwork).

I think you will see good improvements on the T/E