I have finished reading the stickies and I understand the TRT part but am really lagging on the thyroid part. I was on Adrogel off and on for 8yrs and never had much success. I switched over to T injections Aromasin and HCG through an Antiaging Clinic I had a lot of success in fixing the libido, energy, stamina, and over all well-being. I then started to have a discomfort around my adams apple that felt somewhat like a bruise all my local Dr’s said I was causing the problem myself with the combo of drugs I was doing even though T and E were at optimal levels. So I have quit the meds for 5 months now and the problem still exists. I have retested and I believe its my Thyroid that is slightly irritated but I don’t quite understand the Thyroid.
My new levels are
Test Serum 230(235-836)
E2 15 (7-48)
LH & FSH were both just bellow normal but dont have those in front of me.
TSH 2.79(.450-4.5)
Total T4 7.7 (4.5-12)
FT3 2.6 (1.2-4.9)
T3 uptake 34 (24-39)
From what I read in (Stop the Thyroid Maddness) My T3 and T4 are both low and T3 should be in the upper range if not slightly over. Im wanting to start my TRT back up again but want to solve this issue first and I plan to experiment with Armour or Nature Throid to see it helps with the issues.
Im looking for someone else here with experience in the thyroid department to help educate myself before I take the leap.
Thanks.
Recieved my Nature Throid today and will be starting at 1grain/day divided into 2 doses. I will hold this doseage for 1-2wks. According to what I read with mid range levels at the end of wk 1 or 2 I should have to start raising the dose by 1/2 grain/day and hold for 2-4wks. If symtoms don’t improve or return increase by 1/2 grain/day until symptoms leave and stay away.
Today is day 1 will keep posting.
you really need to test your 8am Cortisol levels because taking thyroid meds will put additional demands on your cortisol production, and if your levels are already below ideal, then you could crash your system even further and cause the extra T4 you are taking to convert to Reverse T3.
dosing twice daily is good.
have you ever tested for ferritin or D25-OH?
also check out thyroid-rt3.com
they have some good thyroid advice as well.
Cortisol levels came back just above high normal last time they were checked and at that time I was taking 5mg Cortef AM and PM. Ferritin levels were also good. Thanks for the link PureChance. Today is only day 3 on 1 grain but its the first day that I can swallow and touch the area around my adams apple without it feeling like its all bruised up. Im hopping to start back up on my TRT soon.
so any other additional details you would like to share? and what is high normal and what is good ferritin? everyone has the own opinion. sharing actual numbers really does help as does full details per the Advice for new Guys sticky thread.
My AM cortisol last checked was 21.3mcg/dl (4.6-20.6) up from 12.9 (same ref)
Ferritin was 57ng/dl (20-345) and was never checked again.
My troubles are from Steroid abuse from age 18-21 and 10yrs of horrible treatment by dumb shit DR’s. Out of all the stupid shit I’ve done thats the one I wish I could take back. The past 10yrs have been very rocky while trying to figure out exactly what combo and dosage of meds I need. My best practice has been educating myself from books, learning from members of other boards, and trying things myself. My worst practice has been wasting all my hard earned money and many years of my life on Dr’s who only follow 1 and only protocol Fuckers just want your money. My favorite saying of theirs is (well we got the results back and everything is normal see ya later) But now with the Nature Throid and the swelling and discomfort going away I hope to fire my TRT back up soon.
My previous Protocol was Daily SubQ shots of Test Prop @ 25mg, 250iu’s of HCG 2x/wk, and 12.5mg Aromasin/day.
This put my levels into the upper range but I suspect that the dose may need to be adjusted maybe even lowered now that Im getting my Thyroid up to speed. I will start up on previous protocol for 4-5wks and retest all levels and make the proper adjustments.
Those of you who have any input that could prove useful please share.
yes doctors are pretty much idiots across the board.
I’ve seen several docs say that 150 is the ideal ferritin for males.
175mg Testosterone is a major dose - which normally means something else with your system is off and you are trying to compensate by overdosing on T (hence your thyroid issues).
excess T requires extra Cortisol which may not leave enough to work with your thyroid.
I would advise discussing with your doctor the possibility of reducing your T dose to 100mg daily with 30mg EOD shots.
[quote]PureChance wrote:
yes doctors are pretty much idiots across the board.
I’ve seen several docs say that 150 is the ideal ferritin for males.
175mg Testosterone is a major dose - which normally means something else with your system is off and you are trying to compensate by overdosing on T (hence your thyroid issues).
excess T requires extra Cortisol which may not leave enough to work with your thyroid.
I would advise discussing with your doctor the possibility of reducing your T dose to 100mg daily with 30mg EOD shots.
your E2 seems below ideal as well.[/quote]
Yes I agree things are going to have to be adjusted. I believe that I will be lowering my dose of T but will start off with old protocol because I know what it did for me. My E2 is only low now do to I have no T to aromatize. With previous protocol I held it in the mid 20’s.
Do you think I would do myself better justice by starting off lower and raising versus starting off at original doses and adjusting downward if needed.
starting back with 175mg weekly will (more than likely) put a huge strain on your system, cause problems with aromatase, high estradiol, possible cortisol problems as your system burns through cortisol trying to keep up with the extra T, possible thyroid problems if you don’t have enough cortisol left for your normal thyroid function, potential issues with DHT, potential issues with DHEA, etc. etc. etc.
I strongly recommend starting off slower at a more reasonable dosage (100mg weekly with shots of 50mg E3D). You can always increase later if needed, but why jump in at what most consider a very large initial dosage?
I went off on this long rant about seeing you setting yourself up for failure before I read the second part of your post.
[quote]PureChance wrote:
starting back with 175mg weekly will (more than likely) put a huge strain on your system, cause problems with aromatase, high estradiol, possible cortisol problems as your system burns through cortisol trying to keep up with the extra T, possible thyroid problems if you don’t have enough cortisol left for your normal thyroid function, potential issues with DHT, potential issues with DHEA, etc. etc. etc.
I strongly recommend starting off slower at a more reasonable dosage (100mg weekly with shots of 50mg E3D). You can always increase later if needed, but why jump in at what most consider a very large initial dosage?
I went off on this long rant about seeing you setting yourself up for failure before I read the second part of your post.[/quote]
That all makes sense I appreciate the advice. Even if the script is written for the same I will start off at a lower dose of 100mg/wk and work up if needed. I will still be using Prop so I will do either ED or EOD at most. Who knows maybe I will need less Aromasin also.
Ok it’s been 6 day’s since I began dosing at 1 grain and the symptoms of imflamation are starting to return but no where to what they were just like the book said. Now I will up the dose to 1 grain 2x/day and see what happens. I read that most people end up taking 3-5 grains/day.
A friend of my Moms just shared a story of her complaining about the same thing as myself for 8months straight and they kept shoving her off also. Now today she has been diagnosed wiht thyroid cancer. It makes me wonder if I should go and request to have an ultrasound like she did to rule anything out. Our Health Care system sucks.
I USE IODIZED SALT DAILY ON FOOD AND EAT SEA FOOD ONCE/WK.
IM SCHEDULED TO SEE AN ENT DR. MONDAY AND IM GOING TO DEMAND THAT THEY DO AN ULTRASOUND OF MY THYROID AND WILL EXPLAIN TO HIM WHAT I’VE BEEN DOING AND ITS HELPING. HOPEFULLY HE WILL WRITE A SCRIPT FOR THE NATURE THROID AND HELP WITH THIS PROBLEM FROM THERE ON OUT IF NOT I WILL CONTINUE ON MY OWN. INCREASING THE DOSE TO 2 GRAINS HAS MADE A HUGE DIFFERENCE BUT SYMPTOMS ARE STILL FAINT HERE AND THERE. I WILL HOLD THIS DOSE FOR ANOTHER WEEK AND SEE WHAT HAPPENS AND MAY INCREASE TO 3 GRAINS IF NO IMPROVEMENT.
Went to the ENT Dr. today explained to him what I’ve been dealing with for over a year now, that my TSH was at 2.79, that I’ve been taking Nature Throid for about 3 weeks, that I’m at 3 grains/day, and that its made a world of difference but its not completely gone. He said that was very high for TSH it should be around .9 or less. HE did a physical check and agreed it felt enlarged still. He orderd an Ultrasound and said it verified that I had Thyroiditas but it showed no signs of cancer. Great so what do we do. They said it will just take care of itself. Really I’ve been dealing with this for over a year and it’s just going to take care of itself! What the FUCK!
They replied yep nothing to do go back to your GP or to an Endo.
It’s bullshit I have to take care of my own health in a manner thats not exactly legit. So I either feel like shit while I’m alive or I risk going to jail and feel good while I’m here.
from some reading i’ve done thyroiditis can return to normal state but it takes time 2-4 months. however
if it’s still an issue see a doctor and mabe a new as well if the one your’re seeing isnt’t doing it for
you. hope you feel better.
Been about 3wks now on the nature throid and a local Dr. has agreed to visit and discuss options of treatment.
I will have been on a steady dose of 3 grains for close to 4wks when I go to my appointment. I still get slight symptoms of fatigue but the worst is the feeling of enlargement. I will request that we do new blood work for FT3,FT4,RT3,TSH and I’m going to provide as much info as I can on different treatments according to what my results are. I have discovered all of my previous blood work form a year ago showed High RT3.
[quote]railrider1980 wrote:
Been about 3wks now on the nature throid and a local Dr. has agreed to visit and discuss options of treatment.
I will have been on a steady dose of 3 grains for close to 4wks when I go to my appointment. I still get slight symptoms of fatigue but the worst is the feeling of enlargement. I will request that we do new blood work for FT3,FT4,RT3,TSH and I’m going to provide as much info as I can on different treatments according to what my results are. I have discovered all of my previous blood work form a year ago showed High RT3. [/quote]
In your initial post, you said that your T4 was low; however, you tested total T4 instead of FT4 so I’m not sure that tell us anything about your T4 levels.
Those are good tests to get, and if you have high RT3 that is obviously not good… see thyroid-rt3.com (repeating PureChance for emphasis). If your doc is open to your suggestions, couldn’t hurt to re-test ferritin and test for thyroid antibodies.
[quote]railrider1980 wrote:
Went to the ENT Dr. today explained to him what I’ve been dealing with for over a year now, that my TSH was at 2.79, that I’ve been taking Nature Throid for about 3 weeks, that I’m at 3 grains/day, and that its made a world of difference but its not completely gone. He said that was very high for TSH it should be around .9 or less. HE did a physical check and agreed it felt enlarged still. He orderd an Ultrasound and said it verified that I had Thyroiditas but it showed no signs of cancer. Great so what do we do. They said it will just take care of itself. Really I’ve been dealing with this for over a year and it’s just going to take care of itself! What the FUCK!
They replied yep nothing to do go back to your GP or to an Endo.
It’s bullshit I have to take care of my own health in a manner thats not exactly legit. So I either feel like shit while I’m alive or I risk going to jail and feel good while I’m here. [/quote]
“0.9 or less” seems low to me. 1-1.5 TSH is frequently referred to as optimal.
[quote]railrider1980 wrote:
Went to the ENT Dr. today explained to him what I’ve been dealing with for over a year now, that my TSH was at 2.79, that I’ve been taking Nature Throid for about 3 weeks, that I’m at 3 grains/day, and that its made a world of difference but its not completely gone. He said that was very high for TSH it should be around .9 or less. HE did a physical check and agreed it felt enlarged still. He orderd an Ultrasound and said it verified that I had Thyroiditas but it showed no signs of cancer. Great so what do we do. They said it will just take care of itself. Really I’ve been dealing with this for over a year and it’s just going to take care of itself! What the FUCK!
They replied yep nothing to do go back to your GP or to an Endo.
It’s bullshit I have to take care of my own health in a manner thats not exactly legit. So I either feel like shit while I’m alive or I risk going to jail and feel good while I’m here. [/quote]
“0.9 or less” seems low to me. 1-1.5 TSH is frequently referred to as optimal.[/quote]
I disagree. I can’t think of a good reason why a lower TSH would be a bad thing in the presence of adequate T3 and T4 levels (which we admittedly don’t know if we have that here) and lacking hyper/hypo symptoms.
A low TSH with adequate T3/T4 means your cells are getting plenty (or at least think they are) and your HPTA is adjusting accordingly to not overdrive production. This situation changes if we don’t have good T3/T4 levels, or if hypo/hyper symptoms are present.
[quote]railrider1980 wrote:
Went to the ENT Dr. today explained to him what I’ve been dealing with for over a year now, that my TSH was at 2.79, that I’ve been taking Nature Throid for about 3 weeks, that I’m at 3 grains/day, and that its made a world of difference but its not completely gone. He said that was very high for TSH it should be around .9 or less. HE did a physical check and agreed it felt enlarged still. He orderd an Ultrasound and said it verified that I had Thyroiditas but it showed no signs of cancer. Great so what do we do. They said it will just take care of itself. Really I’ve been dealing with this for over a year and it’s just going to take care of itself! What the FUCK!
They replied yep nothing to do go back to your GP or to an Endo.
It’s bullshit I have to take care of my own health in a manner thats not exactly legit. So I either feel like shit while I’m alive or I risk going to jail and feel good while I’m here. [/quote]
“0.9 or less” seems low to me. 1-1.5 TSH is frequently referred to as optimal.[/quote]
I disagree. I can’t think of a good reason why a lower TSH would be a bad thing in the presence of adequate T3 and T4 levels (which we admittedly don’t know if we have that here) and lacking hyper/hypo symptoms.
A low TSH with adequate T3/T4 means your cells are getting plenty (or at least think they are) and your HPTA is adjusting accordingly to not overdrive production. This situation changes if we don’t have good T3/T4 levels, or if hypo/hyper symptoms are present.[/quote]
I didn’t say under 0.9 is certainly unhealthy - just that he doesn’t necessarily have to aim that low (considering he’s starting near 3). If he feels good at 1-1.5 there is no need to shot for what his doc described as “optimal” at under 0.9