The Bad Boy experiment

I actually had a girl who told me the main reason she slept with me is that she thought I was a challenge. Something about the way I carry myself. She was fucked up in the head too, but hey just illustrating a point.

Shugart’s article was called “Big Woof: Get Laid the Testosterone Way”. You can find it with the search engine at T-mag.

For those of you in radio markets who get the Lex & Terry show in the morning, they have a good saying that pretty much encapsulates how to deal with women who don’t know what they want yet: He who cares the least wins.


I think it’s important to point out that you won’t get a woman like Patricia or Michelle, a woman who knows what she wants and doesn’t want a game player, by doing this experiment. But you’ll get a ton of play with younger chicks, who more than likely are just out to have a good time too. Don’t be an ass – just be a challenge, and don’t fall for anyone. Out.

You can’t fake confidence, women can smell a pussy a mile away, they have one allready you know.

The bottom line is that you gotta beleive you will get the ass, and if you need to run an experiment, instead of coming straight out and saying you never get laid, you won’t ever get laid.

Just start fucking ugly chicks until you get confident, then go for the pretty ones.

The lack of maturity and/or self-esteem chicks in their teens/early 20’s means they go for a ‘dominant’ or a father-type figure. As they mature and they figure out what life is about, they progress onto someone who they see as there equal, or life partner, not some a-hole who controls them.

Also, from a evolutionary biology perspective, ‘falling in love’ results in a decrease in seratonin levels (same as OCD), resulting in an ‘obsession’, and hence the more likely the male mate is likely to stick around after the deed (or impregnation) is done, and hence help with the upbringing increase the surivial rate of the offspring.

Perhaps older females, who are in the ‘baby’ phases of their life (i.e. late 20’s plus), are biologically programmed to select a mate who will ‘fall in love’ with them, not some bad boy who wont be there in the morning to help forage for food.

smile thanks

You are right when you say that guys playing this game will not get real women like Michelle or Patricia and that they will attract lots of young chicks. But don’t mistake yourself into thinking that these young chicks are only out to get laid and have a good time. Far from it! They are precisely the ones that “fall in love” at the drop of a hat, obsess over their boys, and honestly and truly believe in the fairytale forever after. So, if you insist on playing this game, know that you will break many young hearts and if that is what it takes to make you guys feel like real men, that is really a very sad thing.
This whole “game” seems like a ploy to simply get laid and not form any real relationships. If that’s all you guys want, well, you don’t really need to bother with the game, just go for the girls you already know will put out. The trouble is, you don’t want those girls. You want to boost your egos by messing with the really nice girls–the ones who will believe you, trust you, open up to you, and who will be devastated when they hear what you are up to.
Yes, some of these nice girls are a little kooky in the dating game as well (after all, it takes a while to really learn what you want), and do appreciate a little challenge. But, that’s all it has to be. Nobody is attracted to a wet noodle that is pliable at all times–guys or girls. So, be yourself. Don’t be dependant on the other person. Have your own life and expect the girl to have hers and all will be well. But don’t trample with people’s minds and emotions on purpose just to say you can. That’s horrible and any girl worth having will see through that in a very short time. And I honestly don’t believe that a truly “nice” guy will feel good about this experiment in the long run, because you know what?–you actually might fall for someone yourself and then the whole thing could backfire.

Sorry to burst your bubble GM, but not all of those young women are sweet young things looking for a knight on a white horse and a castle in the sky. Some of them are hard-core playas in their own right, but few and far between are the ones who let you know it in advance. Many just want to put out the “cute and innocent” front at first because they’re afraid of censure (mostly from other women, but we had that thread/disagreement before).


In fact, I would dare to guess that many of the guys on this thread who are posting along the lines of “I’m sick of losing because I’m nice” are guys who have been played by precisely those not-so-innocent female playas. Or the immature girls who will try to play you in other ways, like try to get you to start fights for them, or do dumb crap with the specific intention of making you jealous. Or who push your buttons just to see how much you’ll let them get away with before you get pissed off. That’s the kind of B.S. guys have to put up with on our side of the situation.


Also, I don’t recall advocating finding sweet girls and breaking their hearts. In fact, playing the “bad boy” game will really only work with a girl looking for a bad boy, won’t it? I don’t know many nice, sweet young girls looking for the bad boy on a white horse – I know lots of young playa girls looking for the bad boy with whom to have some fun though.


Even though all I advocated was being a challenge and not falling for girls who don’t know what they want, I feel for the guys who are sick of being played themselves and want to be bad boys for awhile. And I really don’t have a whole lotta sympathy for girls who get repeatedly burned by “bad boys” when there are plenty of nice non-A-holes around for the choosing. Out.

easier to date someone when you know there’s an end. safe that way.

I disagree with your post. I’m a good looking funny guy and I get no Trim. But I’m not gonna treat women badly. I’ll just continue paying… uh, praying.

My ‘evolutionary biological’ perspective on this subject was firmly tongue-in-cheek (i.e. half joking). It removes a lot of the mysticism and ‘art’ from the subject, and putting humans in the same league as the rest of the animal kingdom may abit of a stretch, but on a simplistic, primitive level, its probably true.

Anyway, most people here approach training with a scientific view point, so why should this subject be any different?

So, if you “nice” guys are sick of being burned by player girls and don’t like the way those girls have treated you, what you are really after is becoming a player yourself, so you could get your revenge by mistreating someone else. Right?
Listen, my bubble hasn’t been burst. I’m long out of this game playing nonsense, but I have worked in a high school for many years and I see what goes on between guys and girls. And yeah, I do feel so badly for you nice guys. But honestly, turning into a player just for kicks is not going to give you a great deal of satisfaction. If it indeed pisses you off so much, that shows you have feelings and emotions, something most player people don’t have. And, ultimately you won’t like the type of girl you end up getting this way. Or–on second thought, maybe you really will. I just think that the really nice guys and girls do eventually find each other. It is the unfortunate part of growing up that we need to wade through a lot of bullshit before we get there.
And yeah, there are a lot of nasty girls out there, but just as many nasty guys too. And most often it’s all for creating some “false image” of themselves. Guys want to be known as “studs”, girls want to be “popular” and both parties will often do whatever it takes to get there. But you know what, from all I’ve listened to through my job, the truly nice girls (that ultimately you nice guys want to end up with) do not think very highly of the player guys (or man-sluts as they prefer to call them). So, really think about this experiment of yours and whether it is worth all the trouble. Reputations have a way of sticking around for many, many, many years.

“Right?” Wrong. I hardly consider it a misplaced revenge scenario to play the game with people who want to play the game, according to their rules. Revenge actually has nothing to do with it, at least as far as I can gather. These guys are just tired of getting burned, and are looking for a way to avoid being burned in the future without giving up the age-old quest for sex, companionship, and whatever else. As I said above, the nice girls aren’t the ones playing the game, and people who want to be players and put themselves in the game do so at their own peril.


That segues to my next point, which is that it’s not being done for some “revenge” satisfaction. These guys are sick of attempting to be open and serious with women who don’t know what it is they want, so they’re deciding to suspend the search for something serious for awhile and just have fun.


The “bad boy” experiment, at least from what I’ve gathered and advocated, isn’t about lying to a girl and promising to love her to get in her pants – it’s the opposite. It’s being a challenge, not engaging emotionally with women who don’t know what they want, not giving a lot of yourself, not being available, emotionally or physically, at the drop of the hat, and generally not allowing yourself to be “caught.” Basically, it’s not doing all those considerate, nice things that are the nice guy’s instinct but make a confused game-playing girl think she has the power and that the challenge is over (or that you treat all girls nicely so it’s no challenge to get you to treat her nicely and ergo your treating her nicely does not make her special).


Also, to the extent the experiment is being enacted, I would gather it’s more out of frustration with being rejected than out of any desire to project some “stud” image. I would think that most of the posters here are a lot less worried with impressing their friends than with avoiding rejection and attaining female companionship.


Interesting point about reputations – probably very true in high school or in small areas where people stay close to home. However, that hasn’t been my experience, or that of my friends. Actually, the sad (or great) part about reputations in such a mobile society is that the tend to disappear completely, or pretty darn close to it, when you uproot yourself and move, and only follow you to the extent you bring your behavior with you. I’ve moved to completely new settings several times (Utah, San Diego, Nashville, Atlanta), to places where no one knew the old me and I had no rep, so to speak. I didn’t change anything because I’m happy with who I am, but if I had so desired I could have reinvented myself each time. I appreciate your high-school experience, but high school isn’t necessarily a good proxy for real life with people up to 10 years older.

I, too, am out of the game, but I sympathize with those still in who are tired of being burned. My advice to them is just what it was above: Be a challenge, and don't fall for anyone who doesn't know what she wants. I'll put the adendum that if you do find someone special, a nice girl with a good head on her shoulders who knows herself and what she wants, keep being a T-man who stands up for himself and doesn't put up with dumb crap or being blamed for things that aren't your fault, but be a considerate gentleman and a good listener, and be open when you reach that level of intimacy. Out.

Clarification for above: Actually, I don’t think high school is even a good proxy for college. Most of the posters here are post-high-school age.

Only reason I alluded to high school was because somebody said “young chicks” and I really didn’t think they meant women in their 20’s or 30’s. To me, anyone out of their teens is not really a young chick.
I guess the only thing I can say about being a challenge until the girl figures out what she wants is–go ahead. The reason many of these girls balk at the nice guys is that they come on too strong too soon with their emotions and desires and often scare them away. I’ve seen that happen, where a guy will fall all over himself with what he wants out of the relationship–after just one date! Surely, nobody can really know if a guy (or girl) is right for them after just one date. I think you guys would be equally scared away if a girl told you she couldn’t live without you and was in love with you after one or two dates. A little too much, too soon.
Well, good luck to all you guys in your experiments.

I have a dog named Lucky (a PitBull),he gets lots of bitches (female dogs, you know…), and I think its 'cause he is a bad boy. From what I can see, here’s how he does it:
1.He moves his tail more than his tongue…
2.He never starts fights with other dogs, but never backs down either…
3.He doesn’t care what others do, as long as it doesn’t hurt him, his home, or his family (me)…God help them if it does, though…
4.He doesn’t need to be the biggest dog on the block, only the toughest…
5.His loyalty is unquestionable…
6.He’s never afraid to show affection…
7.Finally, his bark is what you hear AFTER his bite.
I don’t know if this helps define what a bad boy is, but then, Lucky isn’t TRYING to ACT like one, 'cuz he is one…

Well, that may indeed be the case with some “nice” guys, but that wasn’t my experience – the one that really pushed me over the edge happened after dating a girl for 4 months. After that I determined to be more of a challenge, and it worked like a charm. Now I’ve found a great gal and I’m engaged. Good luck fellas!