T Nation

The Bad Boy experiment

OK T-men,
heres the deal, I think most of us have figured out that a very large percentage of the female population are emotionally F@#$%d up, they really have no idea what they want in a man / relationship, ie: they say they want to meet “nice” guys who treat them well, but really they just seem to be attracted to “bad boys” who pretty much treat them like crap.

So I’m a single guy, I’m a t-man, but I generally treat people how I would like to be treated, I just dont feel the need to treat people badly to feel better about myself, and hence draw this “nice guy” image - hey I’m just an average T-man, I’m not one of these girl boys who minces around I just I treat people with respect, until they show me that I shouldnt.

So where is this all going? Stick with me just a bit longer it will be worth your while…At the beginning of the year after yet another girl I’d been dating said she didnt “know what she wanted / needed time to sort herself out blah blah blah” (after she had gotten my number off a friend and called me, saying she was sick of guys treating her like shit and then asked me to sleep with her after a few dates ) anyway I took a step back from the problem and thought, girls want bad boys, why not give it too them, so started the bad boy experiment…I asked numerous female friends how bad boys act etc and started to put it into action…the idea was to see if bad boy me would meet and get more interest from girls over a six month period, than i had in the previous six months being the normal (or nice) me. Well wouldnt you know it, it was working like a dream, seriously more interest, more calls from and more sex with different women (always safe sex though) until I met a girl i quite liked, so I thought I like her I dont want to play games I’ll be myself…wouldnt you know it a few weeks later shes now giving me the “dont know what i want” crap. So brothers, the experiment is back on, I’m looking for other T-men who have experienced similar crap from women its time to really give them what they obviously want! Now I’m not talking about being an asshole, just bad, not calling them, looking at other women when you are with them that type of stuff. So, I’d like to hear from 1.guys who want to take part in the experiment (it is a lot of fun guys)
2. Guys who are already bad asses (you can give your fellow t-men tips on how to act)
3. Some T-vixens, interested in your thoughts on the whole bad boy concept and why women love em
4. Anyone who thinks I’m a shallow bastard for coming up with the whole idea

Let the experiment begin again!!!

I tried exactly the same thing, to be a bastard towards them for a while. Worked like a charm, got laid all the time but very soon became boring because that is not who I really am…

The bad boy thing does work. I have had better response when I play with their heads. They need to have something to talk to their friends about or something. I was seeing this girl and things were great at first, but she got to the “I don’t know if this is what I want” stage. But I was not ready to give up yet. So I messed with her head a little and here she came. It was amazing. I think I went alittle overboard though. The messages that she left were kinda scary at times. An old friend once told me long ago that guys like bitches, and chicks like assholes. Truer words have never been spoken.

I’m curious as to your age and the age of the girls you’ve been dating and I’ll tell you why. All through my 20’s I experienced much of what you are talking about. I’ve always treated people with kindness and respect, but have had to pull back a in that regard a little when dating many girls. It’s true, if you show too much respect and are too considerate you will get run over. However this began to change as I moved into my 30’s and began to date women over 30. By this age most women have figured it out and realize that considerate gentlement are few and far between. My feeling is don’t change who you are. It’s about finding the proper balance of being respectful and considerate while standing strong in your moral convictions and beliefs. I think you’ll find eventually that a woman who doesn’t see the value in a gentleman is not a woman worth having. I don’t enjoy acting like “the bad boy”. It does’nt make me feel good about myself to treat others poorly or with less respect than I normally would. If a woman I’m interested in is more attracted to someone who won’t treat her well than that’s what she deserves.

ive never tried the experiment, but i totally believe you. i think that unless a girl wants to settle down, she’s gonna fufill her bad boy fantasy as much as possible. at times, though, you have to read the girl. sometimes ill act like a badass, but other times you gotta be the nice one.

Nice guys seem to remove the challenge 2 early.
Or you could just read up on the subject :slight_smile: Like
Hot Relationships by Tracey Cox

I just retired from the game, but only after going through a similar process to the one you described.

IMHO, it boils down to this. Girls spend an awful lot of time and energy analyzing the guy and the relationship and whatnot. Until they think they have the guy, all that energy and angst is focused into plotting how to get him interested and win him. Once the girl has the guy (i.e. once the “nice” guy is honest and open, and says how he feels about her), then all that energy goes introspective, and the girls start wondering if this guy is what they want, if there is something better out there, etc. The key is that the girl never “gets” the bad boy – he’s constantly a challenge. She never feels comfortable enough about him and his feelings to move her energies to worrying on the next level.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the fence; girls always want the challenge, the guy they can’t get. For some reason, if getting the guy to like them is too easy, then he must not be worth having (kind of like some guys think about girls who put out too easily).

Bottom line: Bad boys get more play because girls don’t even know what they want, but they want to work for it. It’s only after girls get older, wiser, and become women that some of them stop wanting the bad boy – but they never stop wanting a little challenge, a little excitement, and a T-Man who walks tall and stands up for himself and isn’t a doormat. Out.

The bad-boy thing only works for a while. After a girl (or woman) has had her share it stops working. Some females may go for years before they figure it out but they all eventually do. I’ve been the “white knight” so many times its not funny. No interest in playing the bad-boy game. The prize is a fucked up woman.

Alright mate. Sign me up. I’m fed up with being the nice guy, let me know what i gotta do, i’ll re-read chris shugarts article on it when i get the chance. Im 20 by the way, Laters.

I think Chris Rock is right: paraphrasing, a woman knows within 5 minutes of meeting a man if she’s gonna sleep with him or not. From that point on a man’s only duty is not to say or do anything so stupid as to mess it up. In keeping with this, all the guys I’ve known who’ve had good luck with women are attractive to start with, apart from their attitudes; they’re either good-looking, wealthy, funny, or whatever. Their dispositions (where they fall on the nice guy/bad-boy scale) vary and seem to have less to do with their dating (mating?) success than these other traits. I think a good-looking, funny guy will do well with women regardless of whether he’s a nice guy or a dick.

Vain up here in the hizzy.
I am 24 (for those that don’t know) and am a pretty ‘nice’ T-dude, not really a bad boy and all–but that is going to change (at least on the outside)…Recently, a girl met me at a party, and asked my buddy what my name was and then requested my help in psychology (so i knew what was going on)…She wanted me to call her, hang out with her, etc…then basically she figured out i liked her, and got all weirded out…This was the last time i was playing this game—so i said fuck this, stopped IM’ing her (which is the only way she would communicate) and didn’t respond to her IM"s…told her i was calling broads I met while dj’ing at the bar and all that jazz–sure enough, it seems as if she is on her way back–she is a nice girl, and I will treat her with all the respect she deserves, but If i have to mindfuck her to finally pull her…then what the hell–she’ll thank me for it later on…as they say in Jerry McGuire the good broads “are done going to the circus and seeing the puppet strings being pulled”…however, when your 24 and going after girls one to three years your younger–they are still at the circus…so its your job to bring them home
In the meantime, does anyone remember the smitch machine broad?..You should here the latest on that shit–her asshole boyfriend blows up at her in the gym (in front of about 10 people becuase she came up and started talking to me)–she eventually teared up and did not talk to me the rest of the session…i felt bad as hell, and was going to say something to the boy—but he would have no scruples about dropping the gloves right there and I can’t afford that now…plus, its her job to lose the piece of shit…
I’m out

The thing about the ‘bad boys’ is they are interesting. But the guys are right, once you are with a woman things change. ‘Nice guys’ only finish last when they are trying to date immature girls. The excitement part of a bad boy is the big turn on, wild parties, wild sex, wild everything - which includes the nail biting over weither the guy is gonna call. It’s a thrill ride. When we grow up we realize that incincere ass holes are not what we want… and then we look for a mature man who is exciting and interesting but treats us as equals and drops the games. (Part of us growing up is also that we stop the head games also, cause most girls are just as bad about manipulation as guys. It’s a two way street.) Just speaking from my own experience.

Hey Guys, thanks for the replies so far, for those of you interested I’m 28 and most of the girls/women have been late 20’s. I find it hard to believe that so many people (guys and girls i suppose) dont have their shit together by this age, all these games etc…I know I’m probably going to add to the problem by doing the experiment but it really does seem to be the “most effective” way to meet girls. And hey, if this is the best way to meet someone and have em stick around long enough to get to know them and see if you like them, I’m a realist and its what I’m going to do. I know I’ll probably meet a lot of psychos and insecure women doing this but I’m doing that already just being myself.
To magnus: I know you are right, your post does make a lot of sense but I think i read it in the old MM2000 before it completely lost the plot “insanity (or stupidity) is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results”. So I’m still thinking until I meet a t-vixen with her shit together…its bad boy time.
To anyone taking up the experiment or those already involved in their own version, let us know how its going, we can compare notes.

To michelle and any other T-vixens if a guy was doing the bad boy thing for a few months (again not being an asshole just a bit of a challenge) and then turned “normal” what would you think??

I think this whole thing works both ways, quite frankly, until both boys and girls grow up and become men and women. Guys are just as interested in bad girls. Why else would they always go for the stupid bimbos that put out? I’ve seen so many really nice, attractive, intelligent girls lose out or get cheated on when the guys go for a loose party girl. Maturity is the key here, when the games finally stop and we all appreciate each other for the people we really are.
So, to your question about “becoming normal” after a few months of bad boy game playing–well, it depends if the girl is mature or not and ready to accept a nice guy. Young relationships are all about excitement and thrills–if either party is too predictable and too easily attainable, it becomes unexciting, and then relationships begin to fizzle. That’s not necessarily bad because it allows us to figure out what and who we really want and what is important in a relationship. If you ever really have only one or two, how could you ever know? Teenagers and young adults expect to be constantly entertained. Once something gets boring they want to move on. The trick, then, I think, is not necessarily to be a bad boy or girl, but to not get boring. Eventually, as you mature you realize that boring is what you make it, and that life is good when it is stable and calm.

Why do you want to spend your time associating with screwed up, emotionally immature women?

IMHO, “nice” guys don’t lose. It’s the shy, passive-aggressive guys who lose.

Okay to answer your: "if a guy was doing the bad boy thing for a few months (again not being an asshole just a bit of a challenge) and then turned “normal” what would you think?? "

Answer: Not only would I not give the guy a "few months" - I wouldn't give him the time of day. Period. Just like any "real" T-Man who don't have time for chicks who play "games" - I don't have time for so-called "men" who play games. And I can spot a "game" a mile away.

I’ve tried the bad boy experiment but with little success. The reason being I’m not a great actor, and when I try to act bad, all the ladies laugh at me. But sometimes when I pull it off real well, women start to freak out because they are not used to me being a different person. Next time I do this experiment, I have to go for the women who don’t know me at all. Maybe I should order a supply of vitex/M. That stuff usually turns me into an asshole. Martin-I’ll do this experiment. In your post, you asked your female friends how bad boys act. What I need from you are those tips. I’ve read Shugart’s article, but the more I learn, the better. I’m a nice guy who always finishes last. Right now, there’s a flock of women who are in their late teens (18, 19) and early twenties I want to bang. I wanna do this experiment to see how well I will do with them (or do them). Let’s see.

Hey guys, To those interested in trying it out I’ll give a few of the “tips” my female friends gave me. If anyone has any others feel free to add to the list. Some of these seem strange but i asked the girls to tell me about the “bad boys” they had dated in the past and these seem to be the more common. We are basically playing the Treat Em Mean Keep Em Keen (TEMKEK) game. While you are with them make sure you have a good time but they have to worry about what you are doing when they arent around.
1.Bad Boys are always busy, always have something going on so if she asks you out, saying your busy is a good idea (but dont be stupid and not reschedule) dont cancel plans you already have for her. Dont always be available on weekends. And tell her about the big night you have planned with your bad boy mates (see below)
2. Even if you are by the phone, dont always answer it - this is called intermittant reinforcement, will you answer it this time or not??She’ll be nervous everytime she calls
3. Bad boys dont chat on the phone, too busy doing something else - dont be rude, but be just about to nick out somewhere. on your cell phone, sorry your out with friends and cant really talk now.
4. Bad boys dont give a shit about the environment or global issues your too busy being bad (I thought this was really strange but a few girls mentioned it…go figure??)
5. I really like this one, when you are out, look at other women, dont drool over them and make it a perve fest but something a bit longer than a glance at a babe is good, your there with her but you still notice other women.
6.All bad boys have bad boy friends, but the impression is they are worse than you, a few stories of them getting up to trouble will help.
7.You dont have time for other peoples problems - your life is too important and busy
8. Dont call/email/text them too often.
So basically we arent trying to treat em like shit, they have to enjoy seeing you in the first place but dont be too keen, dont be a sure thing, make them work for it / you. No flowers, or opening car doors.
Good luck guys, let us know how it goes


What is shugarts article named/about?

I HATE games. If you say you’re going to call then just call! The ‘three day rule’ is bull shit. Guys only seem desparate when they ARE desparate! Calling someone back, answering the phone, and returning emails is NOT desparate. If you jump at every chance to be with them, perhaps that is overboard, you need to have your own life too, but that doesn’t mean lie. If you have plans, be upfront, if you don’t then by all means go have fun - and if you want a night with ‘the guys’ then go have one! She doesn’t own you just as you don’t own her and neither of you have a monopoly on the otehr’s time.

I met a guy once, we had a great time, he said he’d call me. I was floored when I got a call in 24 hours. Guess what? He had me hook, line and sinker. Why? Because he treated me like I was a special person to him, like he wanted to talk to me and hang out with me. Yes, of course, he hung out with his friends and did other things… he had a life. We were not joined at the hip. THAT is what you have to avoid, being around each other 24/7. You don’t have to be an ass, you just should have a life.