T Nation

The Average Man

Found this on the net. Informative. Sorry if its a repost.

Maybe put some things in perspective

T-Islander


The average man/woman…

This page has been created in response to the media’s image of what the physical standards for men and women should be. It seems that the only information that can be found that ever deals with numbers are from men whom are as big as a car and can lift a house. These men simply are not “average” in size and strength. Men have a similar situation with body image and self-esteem as women only it is not addressed nearly as often. Where as women are put under the impression (by the media) that they are to view models and/or actress’ as ideal women, men are to view athletes and actor’s as ideal men. The reality is that models, actors, athletes, etc are the minority of people. Us, the majority, are not readily (if at all) represented by the media or even by our selves.

Thus, the necessity for pages like this. I feel that it’s time for us, the majority, to reclaim a positive sense of our selves and to put an end to negative influences pushed on us by the media that are simply unrealistic to the majority of human beings that walk this planet earth. This page, i hope, will bring to light the myth of the “average” man. So, when you, the reader, ever feel jilted by some moron quoting bullshit numbers…take those numbers to the bank right here, in order to go beyond mere myth and finally deal in facts. I’ve tried to incorporate male and female findings as I could, however there seemed to be more male numbers readily available on-line than female (the women say “big surprise!” huh).


(via Mens Health Magazine)

Floor exercises Number of pushups the average man can do with good form* in 1 minute:

Age 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 60-69 Pushups 33 27 21 15 15

Pounds the average 175-pound man (aka : average weight, average height is 5’9 1/2) can bench-press one time:

Age 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 60-69 Lb 180 158 143 128 116

Number of situps the average man can do in 1 minute:

Age 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 60-69 Situps 40 36 31 26 20

Time it takes the average American man to run 1.5 miles:

Age 20-29 30-39 40-49 50-59 60-69 Time 12:18 12:51 13:53 14:55 16:07

The Average Guy has sex 1.5 times a week (79 times a year), and lasts about 14 minutes. He has a 1-in-4.3 chance of cheating on his wife and enjoys a total of 12.4 sex partners throughout his life. The odds that his wife will cheat on him are 1 in 8.3, and the average woman enjoys a total of four sex partners throughout her life. The Average Guy is 34.4 years old and makes about $36,100 a year. He’s about 5-feet-9 and weighs 175 pounds. He’s married with two children and has $3,100 in the bank. Those statistics come from the June issue of Men’s Health magazine, which has culled government studies and research reports – including U.S. Census Bureau, National Institutes of Health, U.S. Justice Department and Centers for Disease Control and Prevention data – for a statistical snapshot of the Average Guy, whom they call Mike Smith. Do you want to be like Mike? “Every guy wants to know how well he’s doing,” Men’s Health Editor In Chief Greg Gutfeld says. "It’s the first thing he thinks about in the morning. I look in the mirror each morning and ask, ‘Am I getting older? Am I getting better?’ "

Mr. Average, known as Mike to his friends, drinks at least 3.3 cups of coffee a day and 1.2 alcoholic drinks a day. He eats fast food 1.4 times a week, visits a pizza joint three times a month, eats steak twice a week and eats 245 eggs a year. The odds he’ll have a heart attack are 1 in 21. The odds that he’ll develop heart disease before age 60 are 1 in 3. The odds that he’ll have high blood pressure are 1 in 4. The odds that he’ll develop prostate cancer are 1 in 6. The odds that he’ll develop diabetes are 1 in 12. Men’s Health has compiled the Average Guy information twice before, in 1995 and 1999.

The Average Guy special report now is an annual feature. In addition to giving men the cold, hard stats, the magazine also offers men tips on how to be above average and improve their odds. “In terms of ultimate health barometers, things are getting better for the average man,” Gutfeld says.

The average man’s life expectancy has increased from about 72 years in 1990 to 74 in 1994. “We’re still six years behind women,” Gutfeld says. “Men don’t see the doctor as much.” They also don’t always follow the doctor’s instructions. “That’s why it’s good to hang around women, because women tell you what to do,” Gutfeld says jokingly.

The odds that the Average Guy is 30 pounds overweight are 1 in 5. The average 175-pound guy can toss a football 50 yards, the average NFL quarterback, 65 yards. “It’s only 15 yards between you and an NFL quarterback,” Gutfeld says. “But it’s good you can’t throw it 15 yards more or you’d be in strip clubs all the time.” – spoiled ground beef is the food in the fridge most likely to make an average man violently ill; – a juicy steak is the food most guys would request as a last meal when facing the electric chair; – the odds that a man ate fast-food on any given day is 1 out of 2.5; – an average guy eats out five times per week; – the average man eats 26 pounds of beef, 57 pounds of chicken, 16 pounds of cheese, 17 pounds of fish, and 11 pounds of pork annually; – 603 cups of coffee are downed per year per average guy; – 19 pizza pies will meet their maker in the form of the average American male; – and each year, the average man gains 1.1 pounds.

Rosenbloom, who was not involved in putting together the composite, told Reuters Health that the very notion of publicizing such a portrait reveals the push-and-pull men are facing regarding their health and fitness. “I think it’s typical of what I see in magazines of all types,” she noted. “In women’s magazines, I see a gorgeous women on the cover and then I see 300 recipes for cookies inside. So there’s that ambivalence.”

Age when the average guy is in the best shape of his life: 23 Percentage of men who consider themselves “physically fit”: 69 Percentage who actually are: 13 Time it takes the average guy to run a mile: 8 minutes, 34 seconds Amount he can bench-press: 135 pounds Number of situps he can do: 36 Pushups: 27 Pullsups: 1 Percentage of men who would never skip another workout if… …they could build twice the muscle with half the effort: 40 …women began wearing see-through spandex: 16 Size of the average guy’s biceps: 13 inches Size of his chest: 40 inches Size of his waist: 34 inches The part of a man’s body that’s the biggest turn-on for the average woman: His butt The part the average guy spends the most time trying to develop: His chest Time period when the typical gym is least crowded: 10 am to 11:30am Percentage of men who don’t belong in a gym: 88 Exercise equipment the average guy is most likely to own: Dumbbells Number of men who have used their stationary bike in the past week: 1 in 3 Number who haven’t hopped on the thing in at least 3 months: 1 in 6 Percentage of men who use their fitness equipment as… …a place to hang their clothes: 45 …a doorstop: 13 …a weapon: 8 Amount of muscle the average sedentary guy loses each year: 1 pound Fat he gains each year: 1.1 pounds Resting heart rate of a fit man: 52 beats per minute (BPM) Resting heart rate of a man who’s out of shape: 72 BPM Time it takes a fit man to log 8,000,000 heartbeats: 30 years Time it takes an out-of-shape man: 19 years

Amount the average 40-year-old man would save each year in medical costs if he exercised regularly: $949 Average cost of a 1-year gym membership: $648 His net profit: $301 Number of men who would rather work out than have sex: 1 in 7 Percentage of men (and women) who think that gyms are pickup joints: 14


Average height (male & female): 5’9" / 5’4"

Average weight (male & female): 175 / 150

Male weight chart:

Age: 20 to 29 yrs 30 to 39 yrs 40 to 49 yrs 50 to 59 yrs 60 to 69 yrs

kilograms: 76 81.3 82.6 84 83.5

pounds: 168 179 182 185 184

Female weight chart:

Age: 20 to 29 yrs 30 to 39 yrs 40 to 49 yrs 50 to 59 yrs 60 to 69 yrs

kilograms: 59.8 65.5 67.7 71.7 68.9

pounds: 132 144 149 158 152

The life expectancy of the average man, born in…

Year 1950 1960 1970 1980 1990 1997

Lifespan 65.6 66.6 67.1 70.0 71.8 73.6

Women’s life spans have remained about 6 years longer than ours since 1950; a girl born in 1997 can expect to see age 79.4.

Average man sleeps about 7 hours on a work night.

Average penis: 5.877 inches + According to the study, the average erect penis had a girth of 4.972 inches. About 75 percent of men were between 4.5 and 5.5 inches. *A study by Lifestyles Condom Co. shows that the average length of a male sex organ is 5.877 inches - which might comfort men who previously thought they were less than average. “The Kinsey Sex Report and other penis size surveys have indicated that the length of the penis is 6.2 to 6.4 inches,” says Simon Joseph, a spokesman for Lifestyles. “Our results show that about three-quarters of men fall under the average quoted by Kinsey.” “A half-inch or less might not have anything to do with how you perform sexually, but it might make a difference in how you feel about yourself.” According to the survey, about two-thirds of the 300 college-aged men ranged from between 5.1 and 6.2 inches. For those of you who don’t like to deal in raw numbers, at 5.877 inches, the average penis is about the size of a Nestle Butterfinger candy bar (unwrapped) or a grande (medium) cup of coffee at Starbucks (with the sip lid). Most men vary in size between a Twix bar and a Peter Paul Mounds (with the wrapper extended).

When Alfred Kinsey did his groundbreaking research in the mid-1940s, researchers simply gave men stamped postcards. Each one simply held a postcard against his erect penis, marked how long it was, and slipped the results in the mail. “They never had to hold a ruler against themselves,” says Kinsey spokesman Jennifer Bass. Measuring an erect penis is no easy matter. Kinsey, Masters and Johnson, and various urology groups have been satisfied with either letting the men do it themselves or with surveys of a few dozen volunteers. But condom companies need more accurate measurements for the best-fitting products - even if sex experts assure us that size doesn’t matter. Lifestyles says it did the largest and most accurate measure of penis size ever just three weeks ago. Company representatives went to Cancun, Mexico, at the heart of spring break, hoping to get 1,000 guys to drop their trousers, get aroused, and let a team of nurses measure them individually.


The source is MIL-STD-1472D

This relates/compares the typical sizes of American Men and Women for Human Engineering uses. You might be interested in using it to determine where you fall relative to the average person or GG.

NOTE: Sizes are in inches Nominal +/- sigma represents approx 68.3% of the given population Nominal +/- 3*sigma represents approx 99.7% of the given population

SOME of the data provided includes the following:

IN HEIGHT FROM THE GROUND: normalized nominal nominal to height ITEM MALE (first in bold) sigma FEMALE (second in bold) sigma MALE FEMALE

------------------ -----|----- ------|----- -----|------

Top of Head 68.60 | 2.74 64.25 | 2.58 1.000 | 1.000
Shoulder 56.65 2.46 52.50 2.49 .826 .817
Nipple 50.05 2.22 46.65 2.22 .730 .726
Elbow 43.10 2.01 40.50 1.88 .628 .630
*Waist 41.65 2.22 40.00 2.07 .607 .623
*Crotch 33.05 1.85 29.90 1.89 .482 .465
Knee (top) 20.90 1.34 18.95 1.06 .305 .295
DIFFERENCE MEASUREMENTS:

Shoulder-Crotch/Torso Length 23.60 | 2.16 22.60 | 2.19 .344 .352
Shoulder-Knee/Slip Length 35.75 | 1.90 33.55 | 1.78 .521 .522
HEAD / HAND / FOOT SIZES:

Head Circumference / Hat Size 22.05 .68 21.65 .66 .321 .337
Head Breadth 6.00 .25 5.73 .24 .087 .089
Ear Length(Height) 2.45 .17 2.06 .17 .036 .032
Neck Circ/Size 14.80 .79 13.10 .79 .216 .204
Palm Length 4.19 .26 3.90 .21 .061 .061
Hand Length 7.49 .39 7.10 .48 .109 .111
Finger Length 3.30 .32 3.20 .35 .048 .050
Hand Breadth 3.52 .19 3.03 .19 .051 .047
Hand Circumference/Glove Size 8.48(XL) .49 7.22(M) .36 .124 .112
Heel\Ankle Circumference/Sandal Strap size 13.45 .68 12.16 .58 .196 .189

Foot Circumference @ ball/Vamp “length” 9.83 .59 8.91 .45 .143 .139
Foot Breadth/Shoe Width 3.91 .23 3.50 .21 .057 .054
Foot Length/Shoe Size [Size 10.5] [Size 8] 10.53 .53 9.58 .51 .153 .149
MISCELLANEOUS:

Bust Size 37.35 2.64 35.15 2.64 .544 .547 [Size 10]
Waist Size 32.35 3.31 28.15 2.89 .472 .438 [Size 16W] [Size 14/12W]
Hip Size 37.80 2.61 37.75 2.46 .551 .588 [Size 12W] [Size 12]
Trunk Circumference/Bathing Suit girth/Full Torso 64.80 3.34 60.75 2.89 .945 .946 [Size 17] [Size 11]

Bicep Circ(flexd) 12.60 1.22 10.60 .91 .184 .165
Forearm Circ(flx) 11.65 .82 9.75 .64 .170 .152
Wrist Circum. 6.75 .33 5.90 .30 .098 .092
Upr Thigh Circ. 22.00 1.88 22.30 1.88 .321 .347
mid Calf Circ. 14.30 1.16 13.70 1.03 .208 .213
Ankle Circumf. 8.75 .70 8.30 .55 .128 .129
======== NOTES:

It appears that WOMEN have longer TORSOs (35.2% vs 34.4%) MEN are more LEGGY - if looked at from the crotch (48.3% vs 46.5%) but WOMEN edge out men if looked at from the WAIST (62.3% vs 60.7%) MEN have longer THIGHs (17.7% vs 17.0%) and longer CALVES (30.5% vs 29.5%) GGs are big headed {relative to height} Glove size (6.5-7 = S 7-7.5 = M 7.5-8 = L 8-8.5 = XL 8.5-9 = XXL) Women’s shoe sizes [RE: Sears] Foot LENGTH of 10" defined as SIZE 9 Change 1/2 size for each .1875" of length (eg Size 10 = 10+.1875+.1875 = 10.375" length foot)


organizations

Professional Firefighter Strength Standards

One Repetition Maximum (1-RM)

RATING
Bench Press
Front Lat Pulldown
Hand Grip Dynamometer

Outstanding
275 and over
270 and over
173 and over

Excellent
230- 270
240-265
155-172

Good
195-225
215-235
139-154

Average
155-190
185-210
121-138

Fair
120-150
160-180
107-120

Poor
80-115
135-155
89-106

Very Poor
75 and below
130 and below
88 and below

Testing Method:
1-RM or 1-RM Est.
1-RM Est.
Dynamometer Required

The standards are part of the “Professional Firefighter Profiles” validated physical evaluation.


Fitness Assessment

Exercise Physiologist

Resting Heart Rate: 66 Blood Pressure: 120 / 80

Height: 74 (in) Weight: 175 (lb)

Aerobic Capacity: Max VO2: 66 (ml/kg/min) (excellent)

Body Composition: Body Fat: 18% (average)

Strength Tests:
Bench Press (1RM): 150 (average) 1 Minute Situps: 45 (average) Pushups: 35 (average) Leg Press (1Rm): 230 (average) Avg Grip Strength: 65 (kg) (average)

Flexibility Tests: Sit and Reach: 4 (poor)

© Florida Atlantic University All rights reserved


According to a study 50% of men in their twenties are able to squat over 185 lbs and 10% over 250 lbs. For benchpress the corresponding figures are 135 lbs and 170 lbs and for deadlift 210 lbs and 245 lbs.


BODY WEIGHT CLASS: 161 - 180 POUNDS

MIDDLE ADULTHOOD

MEN / WOMEN

ARM CURLS :
85 - 111
51 - 66
BENCH PRESS :
139 - 193
83 - 116
SQUAT :
184 - 283
147 - 226
SIT-UPS :
36 - 67
21 - 40

BODY WEIGHT CLASS: 181 - 200 POUNDS

MIDDLE ADULTHOOD

MEN / WOMEN

ARM CURLS :
94 - 121
56 - 72
BENCH PRESS :
157 - 211
94 - 126
SQUAT :
207 - 301
165 - 241
SIT-UPS :
36 - 67
21 - 40


individuals

Jack wrote: > >

< c. wrote: <

Age 26, 6’1", 210 lbs. narrow hips, wide shoulders with naturally thick delts. I was gonna be the next superstar. So for many years I busted my butt training 3-6 days per week. The results: Strength: Best bench press was only 300 and that was at a bodyweight of 250. The only lift that gave me a small amt. of pride was my ability to snatch 185, put it behind my neck, and bang out 8 reps without really straining.>>

< Looking at these results. you must have been overtraining because a natural 210 pounder should have been able to accomplish more <

give us all a BREAK… anyone bench pressing (working-out with) their bodyweight or more is doing just fine, thank you… get REAL, musclehead… the average man can not bench press their bodyweight (5 or more times) i guarantee you that… get your head out of the 'roids, guy… come on back down to earth with the rest of us “mere” mortal men…

Appearance: Arms never went beyond 17, and that was at a bodyweight of 250; zero definition. >>

< sounds lame <

YOU sound lame… 17 inch arms ARE above average… your average man’s arm will measure somewhere between 12-16 inches (with average being around 14 inches)…

for all of you reading this (many of which are not bench pressing cars)… do not let these muscle-headed idiots detour you from working-out and doing the best that YOU can… do not measure yourselves to THEIR “standards”… do not let them make you feel inferior and/or weaker than your grandmother… these people are NOT normal… they are NOT the average person that you will find on the street… in essence, they are freaks of nature if anything…

compare yourself to no-one… certainly not these unrealistic fools…

AVERAGE MAN :

height = 5’10 - 6’
weight = 160 - 180 lbs.
bench press (5x) = 125 - 175 lbs.
deadlift (5x) = 150 - 200 lbs.
squat (5x) = 175 - 225 lbs.
bicep curl (5x double) = 60 - 80 lbs.
bicep curl (5x single) = 30 - 40 lbs.
the above numbers are FAR more accurate with calculating your strength to that of the average man that you will normally come into contact with on the street… and “normal” does NOT include YOU, musclehead…

so, keep lifting… and FUCK ALL THE REST…

  • by the way… the above numbers have nothing to do with my personal work-out numbers… so, tee-off all you want… you shall never know the truth about those whom you can not understand… *

{the one i had the problem with, as you have probably been able to guess, was < c. wrote : <}


Jorge wrote:

Just for comparison purposes I would like to post my lifting numbers and you can post yours too if you want to. These are the maximum numbers where I train My strongest part is my calves and legs overall.

Weight: 200 lbs,
Height: 5’10, 15% body fat
flat bench : 195 lbs (45+25+5+bar) 2 reps
incline: 75 lbs dumbells 5 reps
military press 105 lbs. (35+bar) 6 reps
dumbell press 60 lb. dumbells 6 reps
preachers curl: 85 lbs (35+ez bar) 5 reps
dumbell curls: 50 lb. dumbells 5 reps
flat bench reverse tricep extention with ez bar (what the hell do you call this excersice???) 100 lbs. (35+5+2.5+ez bar) 5 reps
behind back lat pull down: 190 lbs 4 reps
reverse grip lat pull down: 210 lbs. 4 reps
one handed flat bench dumbell pull up: 90 lbs 5 reps
Squat: 245 lbs (2 45s+10+bar) 5 reps
leg extentions: 250 lbs 7 reps
leg press: 630 lbs. (7 45s a side) 7 reps
855 lbs (495 lbs on machine + 8 45s added on top) 7 reps
hamstring curls 80 lbs 10 reps


Mike :

AGE: 20
height: 5’4" (5’5" with shoes on)
weight: 145lbs
shoe size: 8
waist size: 32inches
bicep size: 11 inches


Chris :

Physical info
Height: 5’5 1/2"
Weight: about 150 lbs
Wrist Size: 5 3/4"
Bicep Size: 12 1/2"(Regular) 13 3/4"(Flexed)
Waist Size: 30"(Give or take an inch, and don’t confuse this with pants size)
Shoe Size: 10


Who wants to be average?

No one. Thats the point. This is reality for those that think themselves too much, and a pat on the shoulder for those that think they arn’t all that.

This article pretty much reaffirmed the fact that I need to put some meat on my forearms. Sure, my grip is a lot stronger than the average guy’s but my damn forearms aren’t much bigger.

So according to this article I’m a freak. Cool.

Ha ha ha ha. I love it. They’re comparing men getting in shape to women puking, starving, and using heroine to look like people in the media.

I bet if we did a compilation of stats on this site, we’d statistically be huge outliers. Way to go!

Well, I don’t see why people would be proud of being average. I do the best I can to improve myself in all areas, because I DON’T want to be average. Some things you can’t do anything about, like hieght, or penis size. I’ll be the first person EVER on T-Nation to admit to being pretty small, penis-wise. However, I can’t do anything about it, so I don’t fucking obsess over it like a lot of guys. I just move on and focus on more important things.

That brings me to another point. I’m sick of people using the saying about people “compensating” for small dicks when they have a passion for cars, or motorcycles, or if they are successful. Those people just need to shut the fuck up.

Just sounds like a bitter guy who wasn’t exactly the popular kid in highschool (or now for that matter).

If he aims for average at best, he’s definitely a future candidate for this group:
http://www.naafa.org/

And he can’t blame the media for putting what women want to see on TV - Alpha Males.

[quote]Mowgli wrote:
http://www.naafa.org/
[/quote]

This is what’s wrong with this country. Ho-ly Shit!

[quote]BIGRAGOO wrote:
Mowgli wrote:
http://www.naafa.org/

This is what’s wrong with this country. Ho-ly Shit![/quote]

My thoughts exactly.

[quote]LocoComoUnZorro wrote:
BIGRAGOO wrote:
Mowgli wrote:
http://www.naafa.org/

This is what’s wrong with this country. Ho-ly Shit!

My thoughts exactly.[/quote]

I say we use them for our protein/fat meals. Ha!

Wow. At age 50 and 30 pounds overweight, I totally kick ass on Mr average, and am much stronger than the average firefighter. Somehow, instead of feeling better about myself, I feel worse about the firefighters. Jesus, guys, pick up a fucking weight. What if you have to carry my fat grandma down a ladder?

The bench stats have to be off, don’t they? My bench sucks, but the figures quoted are truly pathetic.

[quote]hankr wrote:
The bench stats have to be off, don’t they? My bench sucks, but the figures quoted are truly pathetic.

[/quote]
I have seen more and more new trainers who can only lift the bar…and these are guys. When I was in highschool, only doing the bar labeled you a “pussy”. I would expect most girls to be able to use that much and more. I truly don’t even think some of these guys are that weak, they simply don’t push themselves at all. It is a mentality I just don’t understand. I thought it was natural for most guys to at least get into doing push ups at home on a regular basis just so they aren’t complete wimps. It seems like the attitude lately is it is just fine being wimpy and there is something wrong with the guy who wants to be stronger than that.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
hankr wrote:
The bench stats have to be off, don’t they? My bench sucks, but the figures quoted are truly pathetic.

I have seen more and more new trainers who can only lift the bar…and these are guys. When I was in highschool, only doing the bar labeled you a “pussy”. I would expect most girls to be able to use that much and more. I truly don’t even think some of these guys are that weak, they simply don’t push themselves at all. It is a mentality I just don’t understand. I thought it was natural for most guys to at least get into doing push ups at home on a regular basis just so they aren’t complete wimps. It seems like the attitude lately is it is just fine being wimpy and there is something wrong with the guy who wants to be stronger than that.
[/quote]

It must be the “feminization” of men these days. With the media, marketing/advertising, clothing designers, etc., men are turning into a bunch of pussies.

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Professor X wrote:
hankr wrote:
The bench stats have to be off, don’t they? My bench sucks, but the figures quoted are truly pathetic.

I have seen more and more new trainers who can only lift the bar…and these are guys. When I was in highschool, only doing the bar labeled you a “pussy”. I would expect most girls to be able to use that much and more. I truly don’t even think some of these guys are that weak, they simply don’t push themselves at all. It is a mentality I just don’t understand. I thought it was natural for most guys to at least get into doing push ups at home on a regular basis just so they aren’t complete wimps. It seems like the attitude lately is it is just fine being wimpy and there is something wrong with the guy who wants to be stronger than that.

It must be the “feminization” of men these days. With the media, marketing/advertising, clothing designers, etc., men are turning into a bunch of pussies.

[/quote]

I’ve seen so many pink shirts lately I thought there was a Gay pride march in the mall.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I’ve seen so many pink shirts lately I thought there was a Gay pride march in the mall. [/quote]

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

No shit man! It’s become an epidemic around town. Every time I go out on the weekend, nothing but a bunch of homos with pink shirts and popped collars.

I even wrote a blog about it: http://www.myspace.com/renegadenate

There is a reason why most men die before their wife does…

It’s because they want to.

[quote]Nate Dogg wrote:
Professor X wrote:
I’ve seen so many pink shirts lately I thought there was a Gay pride march in the mall.

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

No shit man! It’s become an epidemic around town. Every time I go out on the weekend, nothing but a bunch of homos with pink shirts and popped collars.

I even wrote a blog about it: http://www.myspace.com/renegadenate
[/quote]

Hey Nate, I actually deleted my myspace account a few weeks ago. It wasn’t until after that I realized you had joined my T-Nation group. Now I kind of regret it.

You bastard! Maybe I should start a new T-Nation group. I was going to, but I found the one already there.

Yeah definately, keeep it alive. Not that I ever did anything with it, but it was still pretty cool.