Why do you feel you need to spend 345$ on this, at this point of your developement?
Honest question, that you should probably ask yourself too…
It seems to me that the products, which are designed for maximum hypertrophy, would be wasted on a complex/cardio day. Your karate work is probably enough for conditioning. I think the at least two of the cardio days should be switched to strength training to get the most out of the supply you have.
I understand if it’s an experiment, but I would want to get my money’s worth.
[quote]samdan wrote:
If I had to rank the objectives, it would be 1) lose fat and 2) gain muscle. There’s nothing to karate really besides loose hips and general fitness.
Looking up, I can see why you’d think it was a little random. For some reason my Deadlift Shrugs and Deadlifts are reversed… Sumo Shrugs should be on fridays, and normal old Deadlifts should be on wednesday. If there’s something else you think seems out of order, feel free to point it out and give me some suggestions. Spending the last 3 months at the mercy of my shoulder suddenly deciding to start hurting again has had an effect on my programming (ie my plan usually ends up changing 5 minutes into the gym…).[/quote]
I think the thing that most stands out is that your weight training doesn’t look much like bodybuilding.
Maybe it works for you, but it doesn’t appear very comprehensive, and the whole point of the ANACONDA Protocol is hypertrophy.
at this thread.
[quote]eggers wrote:
It seems to me that the products, which are designed for maximum hypertrophy, would be wasted on a complex/cardio day. Your karate work is probably enough for conditioning. I think the at least two of the cardio days should be switched to strength training to get the most out of the supply you have.
I understand if it’s an experiment, but I would want to get my money’s worth. [/quote]
Now that’s interesting, and certainly something that I could get behind if other people agree with you. I’d need some help programming because I’ve never been too good with splits, and needing 4-5 different splits might be more than I want to take on without outside help.
JehovasFitness, what would you say to someone who wants to do the V-Diet? It’s the same kind of idea, a short time of “radical” diet/training in order to affect real physical change, so do you have this same opinion in the other situation?
Zraw, I was going to buy ANACONDA/MAG-10 anyway. About 3 weeks ago, when I was sure that Anaconda was probably a spring 2010 thing at the earliest, I asked CT about very low carb peri-workout nutrition. He basically indicated that no fat/protein combo would give really appreciable benefits post workout (compared to what I’d get at any other time), and said that ANACONDA/MAG-10 would be something to use because I’d get the insulin spike combined with the fast proteins. I decided to try ANACONDA/MAG-10 right there, and because Biotest always has “2 or more” discounts, I kinda figured I’d be buying 2 tubs of each. I didn’t buy the full protocol, however.
The thing I keep coming back to in my head is this: what if I had just gone and done this exact idea and posted my results, and I made well above average gains in the 10-week period, how would people react? Ah well. I’ll just keep all the guys who seem to do nothing constructive in mind while I’m pulling my deads.
Are you going to be logging your progress in here or somewhere else?
-Adam
I’d take your $345 and buy whey protein, BCAAs, and food, and work on improving your diet. As they say, you can’t out-train a shitty diet, and if you’re 20%… it’s probably shitty. Either that, or, you are a fat guy who is currently getting leaner. Either way, you don’t need to waste your money.
[quote]ashylarryku wrote:
I don’t see why you don’t just stick with the same lifting routine that you have been doing, and swap out your current peri-workout nutrition with your new peri-workout nutrition using ANACONDA and MAG-10. That way the only thing you’re changing is your own “protocol”.
You’re going from group “A + B” to group “A + C”. “A” being your routine, “B” being your old peri-nutrition, and “C” being ANACONDA and MAG-10. This way, if you experience any gains or change in body comp, you’ll know it was because of your change in nutrition.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a half*ss protocol. This is actually a good idea because I know a lot of people are probably wanting to do something like this to save money. If they see someone like yourself seeing benefits from using a cheaper protocol, then they will more than likely make the purchase and do the same.
I say go for it man.[/quote]
Yeah, this is a much simpler idea. There are some good points about your split though. You need to first figure out what your goal is and then train for that. Don’t spend money on any protocol unless you have a solid plan in the gym and in the kitchen.
There was a lot of info in CTs forum regarding the benefits of providing the proper nutrients before and during workout. The way I see it, Biotest has designed these supplements to give you exactly what you need during the workout to fuel you and maximize muscle growth. There was also a lot of talk about reduced joint soreness and being able to recover quicker from an intense workout. If this allows the natural trainee to put on 15 lbs instead of 10 pounds of muscle in a given time frame, it may be worth it to that trainee. Not sure what foods you’d have to pull together to eat prior to and during a workout to have the same effect. I mean, I’d rather ingest liquid than try to eat a steak just before a workout.
If someone is training intensely in the gym, and they’re eating clean, why not add some version of the peri-workout protocol? If they can afford it, it can only help. It’s really up to each individual to decide the cost-benefit for themselves.
You could probably use about half the protocol and be fine.
-60 5 ml Alpha-GPC
-45 mix 1.5 scoops Anaconda & 1 scoop MAG-10
-30 eat 2 Finibars (according to CT you only need 20-25 g of carbs to raise insulin levels) reference at: Forums - T Nation - The World's Trusted Community for Elite Fitness
-20 first dose Anaconda/MAG-10
-10 second dose Anaconda/MAG-10
During workout sip the rest.
Solid meal after the workout.
(edited timeframe)
[quote]samdan wrote:
JehovasFitness, what would you say to someone who wants to do the V-Diet? It’s the same kind of idea, a short time of “radical” diet/training in order to affect real physical change, so do you have this same opinion in the other situation?
.[/quote]
I’ve made my feelings know about the V-diet, I will keep it to myself this time as not to knock it.
But, I will say I would not recommend it to anyone.
In comparison to overall feeling, I’m loving the Get Shredded Diet btw
I have my nutrition fairly well-dialed in at this point. I haven’t gained significant weight in over a month, despite spending 4 days mostly bound to a hotel and fast food and Thanksgiving. I’m still slowly losing weight, and would be able to eat better if I wasn’t in the middle of projects and finals and such. Working with my friends, I’m basically “on-call”, and might get about 3 minutes notice before I need to head off to the lab. Enough time to make a shake, but if working goes 6-8 hours… Sometimes it’ll cut into my night, affect my sleep, and funnel down to my workout. Not trying to make excuses really, but doing the same thing with less work (ergo more sleep, better workouts in the morning, etc) I was seeing progress. To give you guys an idea, I was 260# in February.
If I keep doing exactly what I’m doing for 6 months, will I be where I want to be? Probably, especially because UDelaware has a very long winter break so I can train my ass off for 5 weeks straight come New Year. But I like to push the envelope every now and then and I want to see what happens when I open up the accelerator on my body.
Okay, so back to technical stuff… Looks like I need to change up my workout and my timing. To reiterate, I haven’t been using much of a program lately because of my shoulder. Cliff’s notes: separated my shoulder 3 months ago, it’s almost better but tweaks every now and then, so I’ve tried to baby it. I think I’m at the point that, in the next week or so, I’ll be able to just work through the pain without inviting further injury or significant pain.
Reading through the posts again and being a little more objective with it, I think that it might behoove me to take out the complex/conditioning days. If I work my ass off 6 days a week and do karate 3 times a week, I’ll lose body fat regardless so lets just focus the workouts around raw strength and size. Getting more specific, what kind of program do you guys think would be best? Push/Pull/Legs? I still want to hit the gym 6 days per week.
How does 3 weeks of “Workout X”, followed by 8 weeks of “Workout X + Anaconda/MAG-10”, and then 2 weeks of “Workout X” sound? Afterward, I’d reassess and see what kind of difference Anaconda/MAG-10 made and see what I’m looking at. I figure that gives me 3 weeks of “baseline” biofeedback, 8 weeks of “juiced” biofeedback, and then 2 weeks of “adjusted” biofeedback to see what differences I experience off the Anaconda again.
Keep in mind that another part of the protocol I cannot do is the FINiBARs. 2 Bars have about as many carbs as I take in every 3 days.
Why are you breaking the “Workout X Only” time into two short slices? It seems like 8 weeks of Workout X followed by 8 weeks with the added supplements would be a better test. If you cannot stay healthy for 2 months at a time I doubt that any supplement protocol is going to do much for you (and I say this as a guy with a history of recurring lower back problems).
Why not experiment on yourself?
It can’t hurt.
Just keep everybody posted.
My main motivation for keeping the “control” times relatively short is because I end up traveling just enough to make a shorter program more desirable. Since I’m starting this in the beginning of January, Spring Break will be a HUGE thing that I need to finish before. Even if I can keep my nutrition controlled over Spring Break, the odds of keeping a consistent workout are non-existent.
If the general consensus is that I need to lengthen my control with respect to the Anaconda time, I can maybe drop 2 weeks of Anaconda workouts to make things fit. Feelings on that?
[quote]ksommer wrote:
I’d take your $345 and buy whey protein, BCAAs, and food, and work on improving your diet. As they say, you can’t out-train a shitty diet, and if you’re 20%… it’s probably shitty. Either that, or, you are a fat guy who is currently getting leaner. Either way, you don’t need to waste your money.[/quote]
Damn it, STOP making sense, you bastard.
[quote]samdan wrote:
My main motivation for keeping the “control” times relatively short is because I end up traveling just enough to make a shorter program more desirable. Since I’m starting this in the beginning of January, Spring Break will be a HUGE thing that I need to finish before. Even if I can keep my nutrition controlled over Spring Break, the odds of keeping a consistent workout are non-existent.
If the general consensus is that I need to lengthen my control with respect to the Anaconda time, I can maybe drop 2 weeks of Anaconda workouts to make things fit. Feelings on that?[/quote]
I really don’t see the sense in screwing with your schedule for the sake of this “experiment” if you’re not going to engage in hardcore bodybuilding.
It’s fun to play scientist and all, but you’d be better served by emulating a bodybuilder in this scenario.
Oddly enough, T-Nation is cutting off the 2nd half of the 2nd page of this thread… Like I can’t scroll past it…
Ah well, I saw HK’s post, so I’ll reply to what I remember…
I can see what you’re saying about doing a “bodybuilding” plan while I’m doing this experiment, and I wouldn’t be opposed to doing such a plan but I have no experience with them as of yet. What kind of plan would you suggest? A push/pull/legs split with hypertrophy in mind?
I came to the realization today that I’m afraid of gaining weight, but that that fear came from being formerly fatter and that it wasn’t based in concrete measures like BF% but just the scale number. Now that I know it, I can move past it. Let’s get hyuuuge.
BUHAHAH HOW CAN YOU HAVE YOUR DIET DIALED IN IF YOU AT 20% BF at 6 FEET TALL weighing in at 210lbs?
Lose the weight use the supps when you bulk.
[quote]optheta wrote:
BUHAHAH HOW CAN YOU HAVE YOUR DIET DIALED IN IF YOU AT 20% BF at 6 FEET TALL weighing in at 210lbs?
Lose the weight use the supps when you bulk.[/quote]
Easily, I’m constantly losing at a relatively steady rate. Do you have another definition that I’m unaware of?
okay whatever you say… But srsly save the Anaconda supps until your bulking
The worse part of this idea is that your wasting money. Do i think it will work? Yes. Do i think it will work in the way you want it to? No.
With the BW/ BF your at right now just about using any supp will cause the same result on you losing fat ( within reason ). Save your self a couple bucks, work out your diet and buy Protein/ BCAA’s some EHCL and Caffeine pills and food ofcourse. But don’t go GUNG-HO into this program because of the hype, wait until your at the proper condition.