T Nation

The Anaconda Experiment

Coach (and anybody else who wants to contribute),

With all the buzz surrounding Anaconda both before and after its release, I wanted to try it out since I need a good workout supplement without carbs. I’m not an advanced lifter by any stretch of the definition, but even if I was I’m not sure I’d be able to justify $300+ for a month’s worth of supplements (which seems to be a not unpopular idea). I had an idea to try out an experiment with Anaconda/MAG-10 to see if I couldn’t stretch my training dollar while still pushing myself past the limits I had previously been under.

The short version:
For 8 weeks, I will change my workout schedule from 3-per-week to 6-per-week
For each workout, I’ll mix 1 scoop each of Anaconda and MAG-10, drink half before the workout, refill the bottle with water, and then drink throughout/after workout.

I will do one week of workouts without Anaconda/MAG-10, then 8 weeks with, and then one more week without.
For all workouts, I’ll record biofeedback between exercises and throughout the 2-3 hours after, as well as my training “moods” each day.

The details:
I’ve trained martial arts for 16 years, and I’m not going to stop even during this experiment. My week will look something like:

Monday: Workout (morning), Karate (evening)
Tuesday: Workout (morning)
Wednesday: Workout (morning), Karate (evening)
Thursday: Workout (morning)
Friday: Workout (morning)
Saturday: Karate (morning) (workout “rest” day)
Sunday: Workout (morning)

3 workouts each week will be “strength” workouts (currently planned M W F)
3 workouts will be “aerobic”, complexes and HIIT cardio (currently planned T Th Sun)

I’m currently 6’0", 210 lbs, ~20% BF. My goal in this “experiment” is to blitzkrieg my body like a hypertrophy “VDiet” and lean out a little in the process. I’ll have almost exactly enough Anaconda to last 8 weeks worth of workouts from the 2 tubs, and enough MAG-10 for a spare scoop somewhere each week.

In your opinion, does this sound like a good set-up to test out this strategy and really see what a difference Anaconda/MAG-10 can do? Is there anything you want to know more about regarding the plan (maybe something I didn’t think of)?

Thanks in advance for reading through this (anybody) and also thanks in advance for any help you can provide me. Hopefully if this gets off the ground I’ll be able to present a slightly different idea for how Anaconda can be used to affect major change.

sounds like an awful idea and the type of person that shouldn’t be giving this protocol a shot, even though it seems like a complete bastardization of the protocol.

that’s just my initial thoughts as I read your post

lol, give me your money, I can do better with it.

Not getting results from this bastardized protocol is just going to feed the naysayers. IMO, to do an experiment like this you need to follow the recommendations.

I felt like typing out a long response, but I realized I don’t give half a shit about you random guys calling this a “bastardized protocol”.

Anaconda and MAG-10 are more than some crazy supps that Biotest came up with that can elicit big gains from advanced lifters. They’re also two workout supplements on a VERY short list out there that spike insulin around a workout without carbs.

Nothing in the world has only one use.

[quote]samdan wrote:
I felt like typing out a long response, but I realized I don’t give half a shit about you random guys calling this a “bastardized protocol” because the simple fact that you keep calling it the protocol means you don’t get what I’m doing or looking at.

Anaconda and MAG-10 are more than some crazy supps that Biotest came up with that can elicit big gains from advanced lifters. They’re also two workout supplements on a VERY short list out there that spike insulin around a workout without carbs.

Nothing in the world has only one use.[/quote]

Our bad. You’re right, you’ll probably gain 10 lbs and lose 3% body fat with your stellar plan you have there. Let us know how it goes

I agree with you on that. Of course they can be used outside of the prescribed protocol but the bone I have to pick has more to do with the fact that using a minimal protocol (ie: stretching 16 workouts worth of supplements to 48 workouts) is not what Biotest has claimed allows you to go so far beyond yourself. Not only are you not using said “superphysiological” protocol, you’re doing a TON of work over the week. If you start reporting overtraining despite using ANACONDA and MAG-10, people are going to start claiming the products aren’t all Biotest has built them up to be, when in fact you just didn’t follow the recommendations that accompanied their claims.

[quote]samdan wrote:
I felt like typing out a long response, but I realized I don’t give half a shit about you random guys calling this a “bastardized protocol”.

Anaconda and MAG-10 are more than some crazy supps that Biotest came up with that can elicit big gains from advanced lifters. They’re also two workout supplements on a VERY short list out there that spike insulin around a workout without carbs.

Nothing in the world has only one use.[/quote]

[quote]BlakedaMan wrote:
I agree with you on that. Of course they can be used outside of the prescribed protocol but the bone I have to pick has more to do with the fact that using a minimal protocol (ie: stretching 16 workouts worth of supplements to 48 workouts) is not what Biotest has claimed allows you to go so far beyond yourself. Not only are you not using said “superphysiological” protocol, you’re doing a TON of work over the week. If you start reporting overtraining despite using ANACONDA and MAG-10, people are going to start claiming the products aren’t all Biotest has built them up to be, when in fact you just didn’t follow the recommendations that accompanied their claims.
[/quote]

Now this is the kind of response I can get behind. I can understand what you’re saying here and it can definitely be a touchy subject.

I like to think of myself as a smart guy, so I’m not going to jump to wild conclusions. If I do end up overtrained, then I’ll remind everyone that I’m doing things at 1/3 (roughly) the dose that Biotest recommends AND training at DOUBLE the frequency I trained at previously. Repeatedly. Minimum doses are minimum doses for a reason, and I guess in a way I’m just trying to determine if 1 scoop of each is an acceptable minimum dose for peri-nutrition.

Plenty of people are wondering if ANACONDA/MAG-10 would work at lower doses but they aren’t vocalizing it because, as seen, the “serious lifters” are ready to crucify anyone who would dare touch the holy protocol inappropriately. Some “serious lifters” have even said they won’t use the protocol for price reasons, but they might change their mind if they see that a smaller dose will still give you a boost. Maybe some of the “intermediate” guys who are scared off by the “serious” people will see that if they put in the extra effort to match the supplements, they can benefit too. I see the recovery component of ANACONDA as every bit as important as the protein, pulsing, etc. because it allows for more effort to go into training and effort is the primary component of gains.

Believe me when I say I don’t want anything I do to negatively affect Biotest’s reputation. I probably send 2-3 people to this site for training advice per week and forward articles at least once a day. When people ask about any kind of supplement, I send them here. T-Nation/Biotest are the reason I’m not 260lbs anymore, and they’ll likely be the reason I end up at a solid 220 some day.

[quote]samdan wrote:
I felt like typing out a long response, but I realized I don’t give half a shit about you random guys calling this a “bastardized protocol”.

Anaconda and MAG-10 are more than some crazy supps that Biotest came up with that can elicit big gains from advanced lifters. They’re also two workout supplements on a VERY short list out there that spike insulin around a workout without carbs.

Nothing in the world has only one use.[/quote]

Not sure exactly why you’re being pissy here – you submitted a protocol for feedback and you got it. Not the feedback you wanted, clearly, but feedback you requested nonetheless. The “random guys” whose response you “don’t give half a shit about” are the very people you called upon.

Regardless, what you’ve devised is good for testing only what you’ve devised. I’m not being cute. You’ve elected to try ANACONDA and MAG-10 in a unique way, and certainly there will be effects for you to ascertain, but for the most part their relevance will apply only to this specific application and speak very little to the protocol proper because, simply, you’re not experimenting with the protocol proper.

Best of luck, though, hope you do experience benefits.

In any experiment you need some kind of control. Since it’s only you and not a group of people, maybe you should compare gains made while using the protocol to gains made without.

You could try this:

Choose a program you can do 3 or 4 days a week. Focus on 3 or 4 main lifts with assistance work thrown in on each day. Squat, Bench, OHP, Deadlift. Work out with intensity, work up to a 5 rep max for each of these lifts.

If you’re not currently doing one of these lifts, take a few weeks up front to practice form, “the rep” and dialing in your 1 rep max. Test your 1 rep max before you start the experiment. Take before pics and measurements.

Month 1: No ANACONDA/MAG-10 protocol. Just do what you’ve been doing for workout nutrition.
Take pics, measurements and test 1 rep max for each lift at the end of the month.

Month 2: FULL Biotest recommended protocol. Just suck it up and do what Biotest recommends for each workout. Again, take pics and measurements after the end of the month and test your 1 rep max for each lift.

Month 3: Back to NO ANACONDA/MAG-10 protocol. Do what you did during week 1. Take pics and test 1 rep maxs at the end of each month.

As you go, keep a journal and record how you feel before, during and after sets and workouts. The metrics of how well the protocol works could be poundage increases in your 1 rep maxes, changes in measurements, and qualitatively: comparison of your pictures and notes on how you feel about your workouts.

Not sure if 1 month is really enough time, but I assumed you just wanted to try 1 package. After that, if you’re happy with your gains, you can experiment with trying to cut back on the protocol.

[quote]ds1973 wrote:
Choose a program you can do 3 or 4 days a week. Focus on 3 or 4 main lifts with assistance work thrown in on each day. Squat, Bench, OHP, Deadlift. Work out with intensity, work up to a 5 rep max for each of these lifts.
[/quote]
I did consider going back to my 5/3/1 program (which I had to stop because of a shoulder separation, no benching or OHP for a few weeks, and then very low weights for another week or two), and if people think this would be the way to go, I wouldn’t scream and cry. No offense to you, but I always like to get multiple people agreeing before I change paths.

[quote]Month 1: No ANACONDA/MAG-10 protocol. Just do what you’ve been doing for workout nutrition.
Take pics, measurements and test 1 rep max for each lift at the end of the month.

Month 2: FULL Biotest recommended protocol. Just suck it up and do what Biotest recommends for each workout. Again, take pics and measurements after the end of the month and test your 1 rep max for each lift.

Month 3: Back to NO ANACONDA/MAG-10 protocol. Do what you did during week 1. Take pics and test 1 rep maxs at the end of each month.[/quote]

I see what your getting at here, and my only problem with this is, in my mind, it’s not really a test. I already know the ANACONDA Protocol works. I’ve read enough peoples’ experiences to know that if I use the full protocol I’ll make gains. The only thing that would come out of my 3 months is an intermediate lifter’s experience. If you think it would help though, I can do two extra “control” weeks without ANACONDA, 1 before using and 1 after. In theory I have unlimited “control” time, although I expect that the after weeks might be a little tough.

10 steps ahead of you :slight_smile: I never pass up the opportunity to make a new excel spreadsheet. I forgot to mention that, though, so I can’t fault you since you’ve been good with the details in everything else.

Thanks for the helpful response, if you have anything else, please feel free.

I don’t see why you don’t just stick with the same lifting routine that you have been doing, and swap out your current peri-workout nutrition with your new peri-workout nutrition using ANACONDA and MAG-10. That way the only thing you’re changing is your own “protocol”.

You’re going from group “A + B” to group “A + C”. “A” being your routine, “B” being your old peri-nutrition, and “C” being ANACONDA and MAG-10. This way, if you experience any gains or change in body comp, you’ll know it was because of your change in nutrition.

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a half*ss protocol. This is actually a good idea because I know a lot of people are probably wanting to do something like this to save money. If they see someone like yourself seeing benefits from using a cheaper protocol, then they will more than likely make the purchase and do the same.

I say go for it man.

6 feet tall, 210lbs and 20% body fat?

[quote]ashylarryku wrote:

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a half*ss protocol. This is actually a good idea because I know a lot of people are probably wanting to do something like this to save money. If they see someone like yourself seeing benefits from using a cheaper protocol, then they will more than likely make the purchase and do the same.

I say go for it man.[/quote]

I am only going by numbers since no pics were posted, but someone at his stage of development should be growing just fine by simply eating enough and training right. In fact, depending on his TRUE level of body fat, he may need to drop some weight first.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
ashylarryku wrote:

I don’t think there’s anything wrong with using a half*ss protocol. This is actually a good idea because I know a lot of people are probably wanting to do something like this to save money. If they see someone like yourself seeing benefits from using a cheaper protocol, then they will more than likely make the purchase and do the same.

I say go for it man.

I am only going by numbers since no pics were posted, but someone at his stage of development should be growing just fine by simply eating enough and training right. In fact, depending on his TRUE level of body fat, he may need to drop some weight first.

[/quote]

I’m just pumped that Professor X quoted me haha. I’m with you in saying a lot of people on this site just need to bust ass in the gym and eat! I think about that every time I’m about to do a set and it gets me really motivated. I’ve been making really good progress in my first year lifting and I haven’t taken any “magic” supps or anything. Just bust my ass in the gym and eat a lot of clean food.

I did just place my first order of FINiBARs, Surge Workout Fuel, and Surge Recovery though. I figured I know I’m already busting ass and eating spot on nutrition. It’s my birthday so why not treat myself to something nice?

[quote]Professor X wrote:
I am only going by numbers since no pics were posted, but someone at his stage of development should be growing just fine by simply eating enough and training right. In fact, depending on his TRUE level of body fat, he may need to drop some weight first.
[/quote]

Yeah, I got some body fat to lose, which is part of why I really want this experiment to work out. I respond REALLY well to blitzkrieg-style body transformations, like the V-Diet. Maybe its partially because I seem to get a new injury that needs resting every couple months, but slow and steady has never worked out for me for very long.

The Anabolic Diet has been good for slowly dropping weight, but not as good at putting on the muscle. Not necessarily bad, but I’d love to throw some real muscle on as I’m starting to get more clear definition.

I figured splicing the heavy workouts with lactic-acid-inducing things like complexes and HIIT would do a good job of keeping my metabolism flying high and also to bolster my aerobic endurance for things like karate.

My basic set up that I’m toying with for my strength sessions. Between bruising my foot to the point of needing x-rays and travelling for break, I’m gonna wait until the new year for this so that I have some stability in my training:

Monday: Floor press, Cable Crossover, Cable chest press, straight bar curl
Wednesday: Front squat, Sumo Deadlift Shrug, Hip Thrusters, Reverse Hypers (low rep)
Friday: Power clean to press, Standing military press, Deadlift, Kroc Rows, Reverse Hypers (high rep)

Most of those are in the 25-rep area (5x5’s, 3x8’s, and 8x3’s) except the Kroc rows (obviously) and the Reverse Hypers.

The complexes are a little more upper body than lower, but I’m gonna be doing HIIT after them, so not necessarily a bad thing.

As someone who is both an advanced lifter AND has had experience with Anaconda, I’d welcome any comments.

[quote]samdan wrote:I figured splicing the heavy workouts with lactic-acid-inducing things like complexes and HIIT would do a good job of keeping my metabolism flying high and also to bolster my aerobic endurance for things like karate.

My basic set up that I’m toying with for my strength sessions. Between bruising my foot to the point of needing x-rays and travelling for break, I’m gonna wait until the new year for this so that I have some stability in my training:

Monday: Floor press, Cable Crossover, Cable chest press, straight bar curl
Wednesday: Front squat, Sumo Deadlift Shrug, Hip Thrusters, Reverse Hypers (low rep)
Friday: Power clean to press, Standing military press, Deadlift, Kroc Rows, Reverse Hypers (high rep)

Most of those are in the 25-rep area (5x5’s, 3x8’s, and 8x3’s) except the Kroc rows (obviously) and the Reverse Hypers.

The complexes are a little more upper body than lower, but I’m gonna be doing HIIT after them, so not necessarily a bad thing.

As someone who is both an advanced lifter AND has had experience with Anaconda, I’d welcome any comments.[/quote]

I’m not one of the handful who’ve used ANACONDA, but your program seems all over the place and you’re objectives don’t appear to be complimentary.

Is your primary objective to lose fat, gain muscle, or become the next Bruce Lee?

It sounds like you already know what you want to do and have that pretty set in stone. Take before pictures, measure your body fat, and then compare it to the results and photos after you have done this for a month. That will give you a concrete comparison and will let you see whether your methods work for your body or if you need to build a new routine.

Good luck.

If I had to rank the objectives, it would be 1) lose fat and 2) gain muscle. There’s nothing to karate really besides loose hips and general fitness.

Looking up, I can see why you’d think it was a little random. For some reason my Deadlift Shrugs and Deadlifts are reversed… Sumo Shrugs should be on fridays, and normal old Deadlifts should be on wednesday. If there’s something else you think seems out of order, feel free to point it out and give me some suggestions. Spending the last 3 months at the mercy of my shoulder suddenly deciding to start hurting again has had an effect on my programming (ie my plan usually ends up changing 5 minutes into the gym…).

[quote]HK24719 wrote:
samdan wrote:I figured splicing the heavy workouts with lactic-acid-inducing things like complexes and HIIT would do a good job of keeping my metabolism flying high and also to bolster my aerobic endurance for things like karate.

My basic set up that I’m toying with for my strength sessions. Between bruising my foot to the point of needing x-rays and travelling for break, I’m gonna wait until the new year for this so that I have some stability in my training:

Monday: Floor press, Cable Crossover, Cable chest press, straight bar curl
Wednesday: Front squat, Sumo Deadlift Shrug, Hip Thrusters, Reverse Hypers (low rep)
Friday: Power clean to press, Standing military press, Deadlift, Kroc Rows, Reverse Hypers (high rep)

Most of those are in the 25-rep area (5x5’s, 3x8’s, and 8x3’s) except the Kroc rows (obviously) and the Reverse Hypers.

The complexes are a little more upper body than lower, but I’m gonna be doing HIIT after them, so not necessarily a bad thing.

As someone who is both an advanced lifter AND has had experience with Anaconda, I’d welcome any comments.

I’m not one of the handful who’ve used ANACONDA, but your program seems all over the place and you’re objectives don’t appear to be complimentary.

Is your primary objective to lose fat, gain muscle, or become the next Bruce Lee?
[/quote]

this is what I was getting at. And with the mentality of “blitzkreig”, sounds like someone needs to be a little more dedicated with their nutrition/exercise based upon their goals.