T Nation

The Anabolic Diet & Social Drinking

 Well I've been on the AD for a while as I'm sure others have. Thus far, it has worked unbelievable wonders for me. I use it for cutting.

However, the only thing I found that is bad about it is that it supresses drinking in social situations. This was a problem for me as wednesday nights are a FORCED social night for me, there is pretty much no way to get out of it.

I searched and searched for the lowest calorie drinks without ANY sugars and have found it:
Vodka w/ diet coke
Vodka w/ water
Rum w/ diet coke

The calories are purely from the ethanol and (as I have been testing thoroughly every thursday morning with ketostix) my ketosis is not suppressed in any way.

I thought some might like to know this in case their social lives as well were being suppressed by the monster that is the anabolic diet, our gift and our curse.

HOWEVER, and this is a HUGE HOWEVER! Take this with a grain of salt as ALCOHOL itself has been shown to significantly reduce testosterone levels for up to 24 hours following intake.

Tell me what you all think, and if others have found themselves in the same shitty situation.

Do you want us to tell you its going to be fine to drink?
It won’t kill you to have a drink or two but it definetly won’t help you on your diet.

And whats wrong with going out and not drinking? You could do that. If you need an excuse say you have a stomach ulser, are getting ready for __(insert event), etc

Or just get one drink and milk it for a while.

[quote]JoeyD20 wrote:
Well I’ve been on the AD for a while as I’m sure others have. Thus far, it has worked unbelievable wonders for me. I use it for cutting.

However, the only thing I found that is bad about it is that it supresses drinking in social situations. This was a problem for me as wednesday nights are a FORCED social night for me, there is pretty much no way to get out of it.

I searched and searched for the lowest calorie drinks without ANY sugars and have found it:
Vodka w/ diet coke
Vodka w/ water
Rum w/ diet coke

The calories are purely from the ethanol and (as I have been testing thoroughly every thursday morning with ketostix) my ketosis is not suppressed in any way.

I thought some might like to know this in case their social lives as well were being suppressed by the monster that is the anabolic diet, our gift and our curse.

HOWEVER, and this is a HUGE HOWEVER! Take this with a grain of salt as ALCOHOL itself has been shown to significantly reduce testosterone levels for up to 24 hours following intake.

Tell me what you all think, and if others have found themselves in the same shitty situation.[/quote]

For one thing you do not have an understanding of the AD. Not trying to flame you, I’m just pointing out. You should NOT be testing your urine for ketones. I suggest you read the AD book and the first few pages of "my experience n the Anabolic Diet. On the AD alcohol calories DO count.

On a side note how are wednesdays a forced drinking night? Why can’t you just drink a diet coke? If your friends look down on you because of that, then perhaps you should look for some new ones. Don’t be a ball hugger. If do things half assed you’ll get half assed results.

Agree with hagar

What is up with all the recent threads where people need approval to drink?

[quote]Hagar wrote:
On a side note how are wednesdays a forced drinking night? Why can’t you just drink a diet coke? If your friends look down on you because of that, then perhaps you should look for some new ones. Don’t be a ball hugger. If do things half assed you’ll get half assed results.[/quote]

Count it!

Go, socialize, have fun. Know, however, that the alcohol is your voluntary choice. There’s NO reason why you cannot have a San Pelligrino or a diet soda. Take some responsibility for your actions (i.e. stick to the diet or at least admit to your own errors.)

am I looking for approval to drink while on the AD? no

I was pointing this out because I know there are some, like me, who had a problem with the social aspect of it. Name me once where I asked: “is it ok to drink on the AD after doing all this research?” I was just trying to help others that had the same problem.

As for the other that said I don’t know anything about the AD: Certainly ketones count, because they should be in your blood for the first 6-8 weeks, after which the ketones should stop showing up on the test strips. As for alcoholic calories counting, the only reason they do it that alcoholic calories are burned before any other calories, including those from a normal carb diet.

Flame me all you want, I know there are others that were in my situation. I have read the AD book (the original, not the solution, so I may be missing some parts, but the essentials are there) and have read between the lines.

That is all.

[quote]JoeyD20 wrote:
This was a problem for me as wednesday nights are a FORCED social night for me, there is pretty much no way to get out of it…[/quote]

I know your pain…Centuries ago I worked for an famous Italian auto concern, and it was expected to participate once a week where (serious carbs) pasta, vino, bread & olive oil, and harder drinks in a cafe setting were part of the biz.

If you could not hang with a smile, you were replaced by someone who could (i.e.: fired…People in private industry can get away with such things), since it was an integral part of the lifestyle of the (rich!) clients, period, no excuses, and I preferred to have an income, thank you very much (till I was able to do something else of course/;-)…

I advise staying with tall glassed, heavily iced and mineral watered top shelf vodka as your drink of choice (There was a reason writer and ex-spy Ian Fleming/007 Bond picked vodka), and milk the hell out of those drinks. Get in good with the barkeep, tip him/her for cutting the amount of vodka per drink and keep that on the sly.

Bring a small vial of powdered vitamin C crystals to spike the drink with. “PCT” when you get home: overdose on Liv52 & Milk Thistle, gulp down megadoses of B Complex & more C and pound the water…Ignore the goody-2-shoes and remember, you cant pay the flippin’ bills, buy your Biotest supps, eat right & pay your gym memberships when you are unemployed!!(So get another job as soon as practical)…

In the old school, a good man could hold his booze (all that PTSD from the war and all, the baby-boomers were too hardheaded to understand why their parents smoke & drank so heavily: Stress!!)…God bless Ian Fleming, John Steed, Dean Martin & the Rat Pack/:wink:

[quote]Blacksnake wrote:

In the old school, a good man could hold his booze (all that PTSD from the war and all, the baby-boomers were too hardheaded to understand why their parents smoke & drank so heavily: Stress!!)…God bless Ian Fleming, John Steed, Dean Martin & the Rat Pack/:wink:
[/quote]

This sort of thought is what always brings me back to thinking that surely alcohol could fit into a man’s diet without a serious hinderence to testosterone and muscle.

Look even further back to the middle ages and before. Wine and beer were consumed as the standard drink in many areas because of poor water quality. When you think of rampaging Vikings, Visigoths, or Celts you do not imagine that they go back to their tent at night for a glass of water with their chicken breast and salad.

Surely in times, and amongst cultures, where warfare was a part of common life, they would not gravitate towards incorporating dietary practices that seriously limited their ability to be big, strong, and aggressive. I am sure they would have started complaining if they could not bed their share of wenches after battle because of their nightly feasting.

I do not have answers, but think that this issue warrants some thought. I do not advocate drinking binges to the point of drunkeness. On the other hand a couple beers, or a good strong drink will “put hair on your chest”.

I’m not training for the stage so if I want to have a drink or two during the week I do it. I don’t think the AD will suffer too much over a couple Wednesday night Captain & Diet Cokes or an occasional glass of wine with dinner.

It depends on your genetics and your goals. If you want to be anal about it, go ahead. I prefer to kick back and enjoy life once in a while. I just chalk it up to the 10% in Berardi’s 90% rule.

On come on. Drinking is a choice. But if you CHOOSE to drink socially, 1-2 nights a week, most can still do so and still have a good physique. You can get lean with some drinking in your diet. Maybe not competition lean but certainly lean enough. And whatever extent that amount of drinking has on testosterone, it’s never been enough to stop me from building or maintaining muscle.

[quote]JoeyD20 wrote:
am I looking for approval to drink while on the AD? no

I was pointing this out because I know there are some, like me, who had a problem with the social aspect of it. Name me once where I asked: “is it ok to drink on the AD after doing all this research?” I was just trying to help others that had the same problem.

As for the other that said I don’t know anything about the AD: Certainly ketones count, because they should be in your blood for the first 6-8 weeks, after which the ketones should stop showing up on the test strips. As for alcoholic calories counting, the only reason they do it that alcoholic calories are burned before any other calories, including those from a normal carb diet.

Flame me all you want, I know there are others that were in my situation. I have read the AD book (the original, not the solution, so I may be missing some parts, but the essentials are there) and have read between the lines.

That is all.[/quote]

I wasn’t flaming you. I was giving you my thoughts. If you don’t want any feedback than why post in the first place? But its BS, when you say you are forced to drink. You know that. Your not stupid.

Going into ketosis is a no no on the AD. This has been stated by the doc in several interviews. If your hitting ketosis you need to up your regular carbs a bit. Why you are testing for them is beyond me? Never has the Doc stated to do so. Now I had some left over (still unexpired) strips that I used at the beginning of the AD and I never showed any trace amounts because my carbs levels would never let me. Ketones will not just start disappearing after 6 to 8 weeks when your strips test positive. How do I know? Because I’ve did a CKD diet where I dropped into ketosis every week for 18 weeks. By going into ketosis you are prolonging fat adaptation where your body utilizes triglycerides, not ketones, for energy.

That aside, you can burn a ton of fat even if you go into ketosis during the week, but while it might seem like your on the AD on the out side, metabolically the mechanisms are quite different. I would reread some of the info out there. Every time I look over the book and other articles I’m always reminded of something I forgot. If you do not plan on staying on your current CKD once your goals are reached, then there is no problem with that, just don’t say your on the AD. Your posts will only confuse newbies who want to join in on the AD lifestyle.

JoeyD, I do a CKD rather than the AD because I get better results from it as far as fat loss and muscle retention. I like to party (a lot) and always stick with the alcoholic combinations you mentioned. I never had a problem getting into single digit body fat or being knocked out of ketosis.

Is it detrimental, of course it is, and how detrimental depends obviously on your genetics and how much you drink, but I’m not going into any contest and this is the way I like to live my life. To each his own, but you can still get good results and drink. It just depends on how you want to live your life and how critical certain bodybuilding goals are to you.

[quote]greekdawg wrote:
What is up with all the recent threads where people need approval to drink?

[/quote]

They’re not exactly new. A little alcohol is healthy, even on the AD, but not on low carb days. More than a little is indisputably unhealthy and graduates to flat down deleterious pretty quick with increasing amounts. This will not change for the rest of human history, but it won’t stop people from trying to get around it.

[quote]Tiribulus wrote:
A little alcohol is healthy, [/quote]

You can’t be serious!

Have you considered doing your carb-up on Tue-Wed or Wed-Thurs? That would allow for a couple of drinks and no anxiety about a mid-week alcohol carb-up.

In a meal situation, I have used a glass of dry red wine instead of a cocktail.

[quote]Moon Knight wrote:

Look even further back to the middle ages and before. Wine and beer were consumed as the standard drink in many areas because of poor water quality. When you think of rampaging Vikings, Visigoths, or Celts you do not imagine that they go back to their tent at night for a glass of water with their chicken breast and salad.
[/quote]

The only thing was, their beer was closer to 1% alcohol, and didn’t have the sugar and chemical shit they add to it now, but in essence I agree with you - I’ve often wondered the same thing.

Lixy, he can. Alcohol is a stressor, forcing adaptation and, just like training, can have positive benefit (plus beer and wine have multiple beneficial compounds). Just don’t overdo it (like training).

[quote]Kaylak wrote:
Lixy, he can. Alcohol is a stressor, forcing adaptation and, just like training, can have positive benefit [/quote]

Yeah, but in the same sense that taking poison is a stressor. I personally would never call it a “healthy” drink. Physiological benefits of alcohol (even at small quantities) are clearly outweighed by its drawbacks. It is irresponsible to say that a “little alcohol is healthy”.

[quote]lixy wrote:
Kaylak wrote:
Lixy, he can. Alcohol is a stressor, forcing adaptation and, just like training, can have positive benefit

Yeah, but in the same sense that taking poison is a stressor. I personally would never call it a “healthy” drink. Physiological benefits of alcohol (even at small quantities) are clearly outweighed by its drawbacks. It is irresponsible to say that a “little alcohol is healthy”.[/quote]

I don’t know, I’d tend to disagree. It may be toxic to cells, but it also improves bloodflow (so will disadvantage some cells, but benefit others). It’s also not directly mutagenic. The amount needed to gain the benefit is approximately 1 standard drink a day, and that’s not going to impair your judgement.
Plus there are the social benefits and the nutrient/various chemical compound benefits (depending on what you’re drinking - obviously doesn’t refer to spirits, especially mixed with crap like coke or orange ‘fruit’ drink).
There’s obviously the possibility of lowered T levels, but at that amount I’d think any variation would be insignificant.

Bah. Alcohol is not healthy. It may not be deleterious in moderation, but it certainly is not healthy. Ever. At all.

The -OH portion of the molecule inhibits normal cellular chemical uptake in the brain. In essence, the brain starves from “not normal operating procedures.” There is a diminished supply of water, amongst other chemicals the brain does not receive due to the presence of alcohol.

This chemical imbalance can affect the whole system, given enough abuse. In fact, just “a buzz” can affect testosterone production for up to two days. Go for it, champ. Suppress your nuts.

If you think drinking is healthy, then you’re sure to believe anorexia is a viable fat loss option. Dumb ass.