T Nation

The Amino Acid Index: A Corollary to the Glycemic Index

Timbo,

JB should kick your ass for even thinking of using milk with your Surge or other post-workout concoctions.

Devil’s Advocate: Why use milk for anything? Milk is not a great source of nutrition or protein. Yes, some will disagree and say that milk was responsible for putting on mounds of muscle to their skinny frames. Lots of calories will put mounds of muscle (and fat) on many frames.

But I don’t think milk is a great source of anything. It’s low in protein, high in sugar and is one of the most allergic foods known to man, second to grains. So why would I want to use it post-workout?

Nate Dogg: You know that this is not meant to incite my dog JB. No Way! This is just a concern that I thought about raising.

And, I concur about the milk. I only used it as an example because someone specifically raised the question.

A better example, and one that I also illustrated was the use of Low-Carb Grow!

What if someone opted for a whole-food meal post-workout? Would the combination of Grow and a whey isolate be that much different? Would you not experience the hyperaminoacidemia and anabolism of the whey?

My argument is that I don’t think that you’re sacrificing the anabolism and hyperaminoacidemia of whey if you combine it with a casein-based protein.

One more question. Does anyone know exactly how long a post workout drink like Surge (or, in my case, one consisting of whey protein, maltodextrin, and sometimes honey) actually stays in the stomach? I usually wait about an hour before I start to eat my whole food post workout meal, but is it even necessary to wait this long? Heb?

Timbo: PM me about that HTML stuff, if you have time. No big hurry.

Thanks Timbo, I guess it is better safe than sorry, I guess by taking in a pure whey isolate you can be assured that all of the protein is going straight to the muscles, where as taking a blend not all gets there right away, this is key for me because with either case I would be using the same amount of protein. SO that settles it my man, I am going with the straight whey PW, and am going to save that lovely GROW blend for other times. Thanks again my friend:)

I am going to throw this out here for you guys, since nobody seems to be biting on my post. I currently am using dextrose sugar in my post workout, but I have noticed that many people use malto also. what are the added benefits of using Malto? Is it solely based on Malto being a complex carbohydrate. What benefits can one get from the addition of malto in PW as opposed to soley using pure dextrose?

Surge also uses whey-protein hydrolysate which is a faster acting protein than just whey.

Patman: I’m not sure I can give an exact time, but it will depend on the amount of nutrients. Obviously, ingesting more will take longer to empty.

I’ll see if I can’t find a webpage or link to send you PM-style. It’d be hard to explain without actually giving an example. And, if I were to give an example, the computer would interpret it and it wouldn’t come out right:-)

In regards to how long it takes for gastric emptying of a liquid meal (surge)…I agree with Timbo…it depends on the quantity of liquid nutrients ingested and how fasted you are or how long since last ate. I believe with a surge type liquid meal on an empty stomach, some nutrient absorption will begin immediately with complete gastric emptying occuring between 30-60 minutes (as I think it may vary slightly from individual to individual) but probably most is gone in 45 minutes or less. Some of the simple sugars will be absorbed quickly…similiar to when diabetics become hypoglycemic and can quickly stabilize blood sugar by taking glucose inside the lip or under the tongue…anyway, from what I’ve seen, hypoglycemic diabetics can recover quickly once they get some simple carbs in them, suggesting that simple sugars can be absorbed rapidly…and the predigested whey and aminos in surge couldn’t be far behind…liquid goes through an empty stomach fairly quick…try slamming a couple beers on an empty stomach for a test.

just to be sure that everyone knows, the whey is hydrolyzed in surge, which is much smaller peptide then regular whey isolate. also there exist hydrolyzed casein which would have the same benefit. The point about the proteins beigh hydrolyzed (pre-digested), is that they spend less time digesting in the stomach. adding anything else will slow down the absorption rate. The reason simple sugars (dextrose) and long chain sugars (maltodextrin) are added is because of the need to glycogen replenish and for increase in insulin spike to rush the aminos in. laters pk

pk, then does Malto take longer to digest, or does it digest at the same rate as dextrose?

J-Dog, here’s my understanding of the mix of malto and dextrose in the liquid concoction. Note: read both Part I and Part II of JB’s Solving the Post-Workout Puzzle.

Basically, you have a limited number of glucose transporters before they become saturated. At the point of saturation, then excess glucose has to go somewhere, which could be hypothesized to be fat tissue. So, maltodextrin is digested and absorbed slightly slower than dextrose. So, as soon as the dextrose gets transported, those glucose transporters are available and can transport the glucose from the maltodextrin.

Now, I don’t think anybody’s really consuming that much dextrose, but it also depends on how much glycogen you’ve depeleted.

Hebber: Great post and thanks for the support. Just like a jock strap!