T Nation

The AfterLife


First of all, please excuse my English(English is the third language here in Palestine).
do you believe in the after-life? i do, but every time i think about it, it confuses the hell out of me. Every body say they want to live forever, but when you think about it you find it very weird.

Because we are programmed to believe that everything should have a finale.
So, What is the end?and what are your thoughts about The Afterlife?
and for those who do not believe in the Afterlife, What do you think will happen after you die?


We are?


My family will be sad for a while. I will be cremated.


I don't really spend a whole lot of time thinking about the afterlife at all. I think that, although this is probably a bit too simplistic, the idea of an afterlife has existed since the beginning of civilization as a way to keep people in check. That's not to say that someone like Hamurabi or some shit like that just decided one day that he was going to invent this concept of an afterlife in order to keep people in line, lest they end up with a bad afterlift. But I think that people have always wondered what happens after we die, what's next and if we DO go somewhere or we're reincarnated or whatever, then how we do we ensure a desirable afterlife?

Combine that with the fact that for thousands of years people have looked to some sort of metaphysical entity for answers. Bad harvest last year? "God" must have something to do with it and this must be punishment for something. What is it punishment for? It could be for anything, but the people decide that EVERYONE should kinda shape up their act a bit to have all their bases covered for next harvest. That attitude has evolved over the course of thousands of years, but we still view the afterlife as some sort of final reward for the most part. There are people out there who think we just turn into fertilizer as well. But for the most part, the concept of an afterlife simply exists as motivation to do the right thing right here, right now.

Which is why I personally believe that the concept of an afterlife has no place in religion or in religious beliefs. At least the mindset that there IS an afterlife and that there is no other possible scenario doesn't have a place in religion. To me, the afterlife may as well be Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy. It's not truly good behavior if we are motivated primarily by what WE get out of it. If I walk a woman across the street because she needs help and I happen to be there and I don't expect any sort of reward for my actions, THAT is good behavior. But if I do the exact same thing, thinking to myself that I better get something out of this, whether it be here or from the Big Scorekeeper in the sky, that is NOT good behavior. It's selfish behavior with a good deed occurring simply as a byproduct of my selfishness.

To me, people should act well and all that good shit regardless of whether or not there is an afterlife. I never think about it because I am not concerned with it. If I found out tomorrow that there is absolutely no afterlife whatsoever and this was somehow proven to me beyond a reasonable doubt, it wouldn't change a thing about the way I behave. I wonder though how people who are motivated here on Earth by the possibility of an afterlife would react to the same news.


Except that most religions don't require you to be good to go to heaven; that's a misconception perpetuated by people who talk about religions they don't actually know anything about (not saying that's you, I'm generalizing). In Christianity, for example, you can be the best person in the entire world and it doesn't matter. It's about acknowledging God, accepting Jesus, asking for redemption and receiving it. You can be the worst person in the world and ask for it 10 seconds before you die, and BOOM, there's heaven. There is a list of things that are good and bad, things you should and shouldn't do, but that doesn't determine where you spend eternity.

In Islam...I don't know. It seems like you do what Allah (muhammed, really) tells you and you hack and slash the non believers if you want 72 virgins (probably all catholic nuns) on the side.


You are a Wise Man. but i disagree


Sure, but it doesn't hurt either. No one who is living a "moral" life and does not believe in God, as Christians understand Him, behaves well or whatever in order to go to Heaven. For atheists, Heaven is not a motivating factor. For those that DO believe in God, Heaven is a motivating factor, and therefore a selfish factor. It's the same thing as what I've said before. What is your true motivation for accepting God?

If you believe in God and you accept him as your Savior but you've been a murderous, lying thief your whole life, what is your motivation when you ask for forgiveness while on your deathbed? Is it out of genuine remorse for what you've done, or is it out of regret that you're going to Hell? I suppose that there are those who do feel genuine remorse, but if they believe in God, they have the capacity to feel regret over their actions.........and yet they have still lived an "amoral" life then they have essentially rejected God throughout their lives anyways and any capitulation of this attitude is disingenuous at best. You'd basically be saying "yeah, I believed in You, but I chose to ignore everything You have stood for and only now, when I am facing eternity in Hell am I asking for Your forgiveness."

If you don't believe in God, and you find yourself on your deathbed, regardless of how you have lived your life, what other possible motivation could there be for accepting God besides selfishness? Only when faced with eternity in Hell are you finally accepting God which, again, is pure selfishness. In reality, the concept of getting into Heaven based on your acceptance of God, having nothing to do with how you have lived your life, is even more backwards than holding Heaven in front of us like a carrot on a stick. If that's the only criteria, then it seriously cheapens the idea of Heaven as a Final Reward for those who are religious.


if you die in battle, you get to go to Valhalla, that is a majestic, enormous hall located in Asgard, ruled over by the god Odin. Chosen by Odin, half of those that die in combat travel to Valhalla upon death, led by valkyries, while the other half go to the goddess Freyja's field Fólkvangr. In Valhalla, the dead join the masses of those who have died in combat known as Einherjar, as well as various legendary Germanic heroes and kings, as they prepare to aid Odin during the events of Ragnarök. Before the hall stands the golden tree Glasir, and the hall's ceiling is thatched with golden shields. Various creatures live around Valhalla, such as the stag Eikþyrnir and the goat Heiðrún, both described as standing atop Valhalla and consuming the foliage of the tree Læraðr.

any more questions?


it is a good question. nobody really sits down and thinks about it, even though they think they are going there one day.
if you do think about it, it doesnt sound that good. have you ever seen "all dogs go the heaven 2"? the monotony.
for people to not kill themselves out of boredom they would have to be mentaly altered and thus would not be themselves, so there is no afterlife, since you wouldnt be yourself. that would be brainwashing like in "disturbing behavior".
plus revelations says that in heaven you have to sing to god about how great he is. i know we werent talking about judeo-christian specificaly


Pretty much everything said there is incorrect; it's not worth debating though because your tone makes it quite clear you don't give a fuck and that's just fine. You should probably refrain from spouting misinformation everywhere that's all.


I don't believe in a "heaven" - a benevolent realm of clouds, tranquility, and midget handjobs - nor do I believe in a "hell" (fire, torment and considerably fewer midget handjobs) - but I think it's plausible that there is some sort of continuance after death and that some aspect of what makes us "us", exceeded the atoms and molecules which make up our physical bodies, is recycled into a new form.

Humanity has discovered a lot through science, but it would be incredibly arrogant to think that we have everything figured out in the universe. It's like a colony of bacteria on a Petri dish in a giant laboratory, exposed only to agar gel and light and formulating "laws" based on them, extrapolating data from its observable surroundings and thinking it knows its purpose for being there. If there is an afterlife I think it will be 100% based on science - just science that we can't even begin to conceive at present.

I find Near-Death Experiences very interesting in that a.) their contents are very consistent, even across cultures and b.) science has not, in my opinion, explained them adequately. The prevailing theory is that they're a product of oxygen deprivation and massive DMT release from the pineal gland - basically a hypoxic drug trip. Drugs, especially hallucinogens affect people very differently and the idea that this DMT release seems to universally trigger a radiant white light, feeling of tranquility, separation from ones physical body and supernatural visions (seeing relatives you never knew existed, seeing surgical instruments from above, etc) is very unlikely to me.

Even if there is no afterlife, we become worm food and NDE's are completely DMT-related, I think it's cool that we have an awesome drug trip to look forward to


BOOM, heaven.


lol, afterlife?

when does life end?



I would imagine people who made poor choices in life end up in a big room with an alarm up on the wall and dumbbells ranging from 5 - 20 lbs. I'm more on the Valhalla end of things.


If there were not so many instances of ghosts, hauntings, and other such things, I might believe that there isn't.

But there's a lot of unexplainable things, some of which have hit very close to home recently. Whether or not heaven exists is a question for the religious.

Whether or not some sort of afterlife exists is fairly well assured for me though, and I could give a shit about organized religion.


Would be interested to hear, if you don't mind sharing...


So, when's the party start??


as soon as you get your sexy piece of tail in the room, hot stuff~


I'll find out when I die, or not. :slightly_smiling:


Matthew 25:46

And these will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.â??