T Nation

The Abortion Thread II


#62

@kneedragger79
But I’m supposed to believe we need governments to have the powers they have in order to deal with hypothetical parents molesting their children. The same governments that permit abortion. LOL


#63

Last comment, this was more for fun, didnt expect any minds to change.

  1. Your exact response was: “The population bomb” never happened and we have just a few more people than we did one hundred years ago.

In which my point still stands, it DID happen, and whether or not our resources could provide isnt the problem, the fact is that they are not. This is disregarding the exponential growth. That small hike of more than a 2.5x population increase is nothing compared to the upward trend in the grand scheme.

  1. What gives me the right to partake in a known activity which is known to create life without consequence?

I have several answers if you really want a direct answer so bad: First and foremost, I’m a member of the most advanced species on earth, top of the food chain, with science and free will, that’s my right. 2. Kids do stupid shit. It’s not rocket science, as soon as a kid finds out his dick works, and realizes there is potential that a woman could be into him, guess what? Most if not all wont stop until that urge is satisfied. (Which, spoilers to any young ones reading, its not)

As for the second part… I guess you’re anti birth control? Were kind of going in a circle here. People shouldn’t be allowed to have abortions, but they also shouldn’t take counter measures short of a piece of rubber either. I guess we just shouldn’t have sex unless we want kids? Because honestly, I’ll be damned. Also, at this rate it sounds like you would consider anything including a messy mattress life. Which… I guess you can believe all day, but i personally think it’s a bit out of touch.

  1. Two wrongs dont make a right, however there isnt a single act on the face of this earth that is black and white. Which is really the core of my problem with this argument. I’m not trying to tell you you’re wrong, I just like to argue, and perspective is important.

  2. This is the core of our argument here, and it always is: I simply dont think an embryo holds as much value as you do. Sure, I’m not right or popular for thinking it, but I just dont. I do believe there is a large area of grey when it comes to late term, and I’m 100% for no abortions past the first trimester, but in the first few months, it just doesnt hold the same weight to me.

  3. Yeah, honestly, I’m fine with it. I dont really have an excuse or reason, I just think that’s a fair trade. Any more elaboration and we’d be diving into semantics, theories, and deep theological preferences, which I cant really be bothered with now.

To clarify a final time, you’re not wrong, I just dont think you’re absolute.

Carry on.


#64
  1. Jajajaja, the population bomb was supposed to wipe vast portions of the world population. The population bomb did NOT happen, that is not the same idea as population growth. So your point does not stand. Getting the resources of the world to people is a whole other issue and we aren’t talking about that here.

  2. So the more advanced a species the more right they have to consequence free activities? Let me clarify that a little; humans are allowed consequence free sex after the early part of the twentieth century because they are so advanced? So advanced they can’t control themselves for a few days a cycle?! This is the ONLY activity where after creating another human life as a natural consequence, you can kill that life and no one is more the wiser.

    Birth control causes the life of the unborn to die. It is a chemical abortion. After the birth control fails you can have a different chemical abortion or a surgical abortion.

    If you think I am out of touch, define what human life is and when it begins.

  3. Until you prove my point wrong, my point stands because other points have to be wrong. Life can have gray areas but after having kids of my own, life is even more clearly black and white.

  4. So what are the unborn before the first few months of life? When do they exactly change? If you could provide any characteristics that would help me out a lot.

  5. My view on abortion used to be very different from where I stand now. I used to be on the fence and I said I would never tell another couple or a woman what she can or couldn’t do with her body. My view changed when I went to a talk given by Scott Klusendorf and there e laid out the case for life in a few hours. The reason I really care now, I care about the people in the world. I care about not only my family but my friends and neighbors and even the people I don’t know. Abortion kills at least one innocent child, more if the mother has more than one child in the womb and sometimes the mother dies in the death chamber (abortion clinic).

To me, you don’t seem to outright support abortion. You have just heard things from society and those things were presented as fact when they actually are pretty far from the complete truth. I also don’t expect to change your mind here, I just hope I can provide information that gives you food for thought. I sure as Hades learn more the older I get and again, I hope I provided some for you here.


#65

Almost twenty-five minutes but the conversation is still valuable. His views are informative.


#66

The beginning of this video is a copy of the ending of the previous video but it is incredibly important!


#67

Buddy, I have no intention of watching video of an abortion for the same reasons I have no intention of watching a birth. You watched that video in your free time? Damn.


#68

You’ve never watched a birth? There certainly can be an ick factor with both. However, I would say if you ever have the chance to view both you’ll come away with very different feelings for each. You might just find yourself experiencing awe with the birth, and a sad revulsion with the other. For the same reasons, truly?


#69

The birth video I watched in health class in 7th grade haunts me to this day. Even for my child’s birth I plan on aggressively staying at the head of the bed with my lady.

IMO one is a happy day where a new life is brought into the world, the other is a medical procedure to remove an unwanted growth brought on by bad decisions. Both are usually visually repulsive though.


#70

I’ve seen animals give birth. I’ve seen animals slaughtered for food. I found both rather revolting. I still eat meat.


#71

To be clear, I’m not speaking exclusively about a superficial revulsion to the sights and sounds. No, but a difference in feeling about the very nature of the two procedures. Indeed maybe they do share some visual revulsion. Though, I’d say seeing an umbilical cord might not be as visually revolting as little human limbs being extracted and stacked up for inventory. But, as I said, I don’t mean merely visual revulsion. As you say, the birth is a happy occasion. While I would wager you’d feel a punch to the gut viewing an abortion. A deep down dread. A feeling of horror trying to break loose. I remain skeptical that the two procedures would have the same visceral impact on you. No offense, but I don’t believe they would have the same impact. And, you should feel good about that.

Further, to “remove a new life (human and individual) from the world.” Does abortion really carry the same gravity as having a wart removed? Scientifically, we know it isn’t remotely the same. There’s no argument that the fetus is already it’s own individual organism (human in this case)


#72

I assume you have no desire to consume humans as a result of seeing your fellow man differently than what might find itself in a 12-piece KFC bucket.


#73

I’ve never seen a person slaughtered for food so I can’t say that for sure.