That Big Weak Guy

No offense man, but this is complete rubbish.

Now you’re posting videos of IFBB pro bodybuilders and bragging about your lifts? Lol. How is that relevant to any of my points?

I’m talking about AVERAGE PEOPLE – if you walk into a commercial gym, who do you see? You are saying every guy who looks “big” is also strong? Because… progressive overload?

If a fat guy with a huge skeleton starts working out, and never does less than 15 reps per set on any exercise, but trains hard 6 days per week and eats perfectly, in a year what will he look like? He’ll look big. Will he be strong? Compared to if he had been lifting heavy this whole time? No. He will not. Progressive overload would apply in either case.

Since you’ve explained why you think I suck, here’s my problem with you – you’re a gear-using “physique” guy with zero performance or athletic criteria, spouting off a bunch of bodybuilding dogma and regularly trashing guys all across this board for not “getting” the secret to building muscle that you seem to know. Well, please – enlighten me. It has something to do with a lot of delt raises and light squats? 5x5 doesn’t work because you got injured using it when you did multiple cycles of gear on your first ever bulk? Here’s a clue – YOU WERE DOING IT WRONG. And when you make fun of “5x5” you sound like you don’t know anything about training. Because 5x5 – which just means heavy lifting on the big basics with a structured approach to progressive overload – works, plain and simple. It worked for Reg Park and it worked for Arnold and it’s worked for the average skinny fat guys I’ve trained and seen get stronger than half the “big” guys in any commercial gym in less than 6 months.

I’m not saying that bodybuilding techniques have no place in training, but your implications all over this board that adding a bunch of flies and lateral raises or John Meadows pump work is going to make a big difference in the rate of hypertrophy for a natural lifter is total nonsense. Maybe it could account for 5, maximum 10% of someone’s overall physique, after YEARS of training.

You’re a funny guy, I’ve laughed at many of your posts, but whenever it comes to talking actual training you just belittle people’s posts without offering anything of substance yourself. Like the mythical “big guy” who benches 3 plates but doesn’t squat or deadlift from your post above.

Might depend on our definitions of “big” and “strong”, but I don’t think it is. See my example above, about a fat guy who never does less than 15 reps.

I have a friend who is a former state champion powerlifter. When he first started training it was as a bodybuilder per the muscle mags – trained like that for years. Lots of volume, lots of exercises, lots of reps. He got big - says he could have placed at a local bodybuilding competition if he’d dieted down. Then he started training at a powerlifting gym and realized how weak he was. He changed his training, and over the next years he didn’t really get bigger at all – he was probably close to his genetic peak – but he got a lot stronger.

But this is exactly what we are trying to tell you. Your friend gained a lot of muscle. He already had built the strength potential. Then he specifically trained to express this strength. Do you really think he would be as strong(as defined by proficiency in the powerlifts) if he had not built all that muscle mass?

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It’s big guys who are strong. The whole point of your jabbering was that big guys don’t need to be strong, so find me some guys that size who aren’t that strong pretty please.

And you mentioned my lifts first, moron. And yeah, I’m stronger than you. NEENER NEENER NEENER.[quote=“craze9, post:104, topic:215039”]

  • you’re a gear-using “physique” guy with zero performance or athletic criteria, spouting off a bunch of bodybuilding dogma and regularly trashing guys all across this board for not “getting” the secret to building muscle that you seem to know
    [/quote]

Hurts, doesn’t it? I could go into my bag of tricks and shoot myself up with a gram of test, half a gram of EQ and a little var if I’m feeling saucy and in 2 months time I’ll be 10lbs heavier and add 20k to all my lifts. Then I’ll put on a tight t shirt, crash your birthday party and go home with your girlfriend while you stand there sipping your white wine spritzer and say in the high, squeaky voice that you so obviously have “whatever dude, I squat his max for reps…”

lol, well, yeah if you want to get better looking shoulders you’ll need to do some side raises, and high reps doesn’t equal light, but yes, high rep squats are better for leg mass. I’m glad I could educate you on that.

What was I doing wrong? And when did I ever say that 5x5 isn’t progressive overload on the big basic lifts? Are you high right now? Is that what this is? Gimme 2 secs while I smoke a joint so we’re on the same wavelength.

The shit thing about 5x5 is that it doesn’t take care of the more “cosmetic” bodyparts, so for bodybuilding goals it ain’t great. I have never said it sucked for strength or that it didn’t have a place. It’s annoying when guys like who touch yourself to photos of Reg Park recommend it as the blanket program for all beginners regardless of their goals.

Honestly, I really miss Professor X. He could be an arsehole at times but god damn he used to put dogmatic morons like you in their place.

And LOL at you training skinny-fat guys to be stronger than the big guys in gyms in 6 months. That shit genuinely made me laugh out loud. It sounded like this: guffaw guffaw chortle chortle harumphrumphrumph and then I did a really embarrassing snort but it was ok because no one was around to hear it.

Oh to the Emm to the Gee. Did you really just say that lateral raises and pump work don’t make a big difference for natural lifters? Honestly, I was just kind of busting your balls before in a semi-lighthearted way, but this is genuinely fucking retarded. I don’t think you suck anymore; I just think you are ignorant. Not in a deliberate, arrogant way, you just clearly don’t know what you’re talking about which is a shame. Ok, so lateral raises, flyes and pump work are no good for natural lifters. Gotcha.

Oh wait, I just remembered: every fucking natural bodybuilder does them! You should start a paid youtube channel so you can tell all these bigger, stronger and more knowledgeable people than you that they’re wasting their time.

I mean seriously. You went full retard on that one.[quote=“craze9, post:104, topic:215039”]
You’re a funny guy, I’ve laughed at many of your posts
[/quote]

bitch, I don’t need you to tell me that. I’m high fucking larious but I forbid you to derive any pleasure from my wit anymore under penalty of catapult.

White wine spritzer??? Lololol

We have needed one of these threads. It’s been a while.

I figure he’s either that or a lambrini girl.

I think so too. It’s been much too quiet lately.

Go Yogi, go Yogi, go Yogi. Your patience is astounding. I would have resorted to name calling a while ago.

I found this funny. Kudos to everyone.

Ok I think I know what’s going on here.

Remember this thread about the Australian bodybuilder claiming he’s being bullied? It may be true. This may be a worldwide conspiracy consisting of skinny fat dudes finishing up their 6 month 5x5 programs, getting strong as fuck and forming a posse going around bullying bigger, weaker guys.

This might actually happen in the near future. None of us are safe!

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At no point did I say that HAVING MORE MUSCLE negatively correlates with strength potential. I didn’t say anything even close to that. Right? Nothing even close to suggesting that.

What I said is that if you walk into a commercial gym, not every guy that appears big to a casual observer is also strong. This is undoubtedly, demonstrably true, and I gave examples. We can define “strong” as 175/275/400/500 on the big lifts, or use Dan John’s definition from one of his articles, or however else you want to define it, and it will remain true.

I had 2 main points:

  1. Genetics is the primary factor in how someone “appears”, and even casual lifters with big frames are going to look “bigger” than skinny “ectomorphic” guys from 10 feet away wearing t-shirts, in most cases, regardless of training advancement.

  2. Guys who do not consistently train heavy with big movements – which includes A LOT of guys lifting weights in commercial gyms – will usually not be strong.

You dispute these points? I continue to fail to see what’s controversial about them.

Logic and reading comprehension really aren’t your strong suits. You continue to make weird assumptions and respond to ideas in your head that have no connection to what I’ve actually said in this thread.

My point was that to appear “big” to a casual observer one doesn’t need to be “strong.”

You pointing out that the biggest guys in the world ARE strong does not refute that point, at all. Can you understand that? Logic 101.

Neither of these things are important training considerations for the vast majority of (average, natural) lifters. Delts will grow without lateral raises, given compound movements and progressive overload. Same with legs.

What’s a cosmetic bodypart? Are you suggesting that heavy curls and tricep extensions and overhead pressing aren’t sufficient to grow arms and delts?

What’s the superior Yogi bodybuilding program that you recommend to beginners over “5x5”?

[quote=“Yogi1, post:107, topic:215039”]
And LOL at you training skinny-fat guys to be stronger than the big guys in gyms in 6 months. That shit genuinely made me laugh out loud. [/quote]

What I mean is that it’s entirely doable to get an untrained average guy to the point where he is squatting 275x5 and deadlifting 365x5 in 6 months. (Really, this is conservative.) And I remain shocked at how many relatively bigger guys at gyms throughout the country are not capable of these modest lifts (because they don’t train them (correctly), and therefore are not strong.)

Please post your evidence that lateral raises and pump work are major factors in overall hypertrophy and physique development for a natural lifter of average genetics.

Also: I didn’t say “no good”, as in “don’t do them” – I said “not make a big difference.”

Jesus. Logic 101 again.

That every natural bodybuilder does them does not mean they are a major factor in overall hypertrophy and physique development. A natural bodybuilder would presumably do everything to maximize development, even many minor things that contribute to less than 5% of their total progress / physique.

Also, these techniques being a minor factor overall does not mean they are a “waste” of time.

I do lateral raises and pump work myself, quite a bit. Do I think they are a major factor in my physique development? No. 10% maximum.

This thread’s still going on, let me check what’s happening…

I thought we were talking about people who have built an appreciable amount of muscle mass. If you are talking about people with wide frames then too bad it’s something that can’t be changed. But why would you compare strength levels with these guys or even lump them into the “big” guys category? We are trained lifters who can differentiate this unlike the general public. [quote=“craze9, post:115, topic:215039”]
Guys who do not consistently train heavy with big movements – which includes A LOT of guys lifting weights in commercial gyms – will usually not be strong.
[/quote]

I power snatched 115kg in 2003 after training with a coach in an olympic facility for 6 months. By your definition, most of you here are weaker than me. My deadlift went down by nearly 150lbs to the low 400s during that time. Was I really strong?

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I don’t get this statement. You guys don’t even know how to get big naturally but you believe you know what works for people on steroids?

EDIT: This is why I am so damn skeptical every time someone tells me about someone getting big on steroids despite doing everything wrong. Either the guy is not really big or he’s doing something right that you don’t want to acknowledge because of all the existing internet dogma.

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the thread is based on the fact that a dude was 250lbs and 10% bodyfat. Remember reading that earlier? Try to keep up. Too many white wine spritzers; that’s your problem.

I’m waiting for your to post a big, muscular dude who isn’t strong. There’s so many of them at your gym, you shouldn’t have a problem finding one. And I’m not talking about a fat dude with a big frame. I’m taking about an example that matches the OP which you seem to see so many of.[quote=“craze9, post:116, topic:215039”]
Neither of these things are important training considerations for the vast majority of (average, natural) lifters. Delts will grow without lateral raises, given compound movements and progressive overload. Same with legs
[/quote]

Again, this is just wrong, and probably explains why you’re so small (not saying that to be a dick, I know you don’t care about getting bigger). Delts will NOT grow proportionally without giving the side and rear delts attention except for in the very small part of the population who are very genetically blessed.

I don’t understand why that’s so hard for you to grasp? Like seriously, what’s up with that? And as for this:

I know you said “not make a big difference” which is why I specifically used that sentence myself in the reply.

Are you crazy? Like seriously cray cray? The evidence is fucking EVERYWHERE. How is the fact that the natural bodybuilders all train their side delts directly not evidence that they are important? Why does a natural bodybuilder need to do everything to maximise development when a recreational bodybuilder doesn’t? Why would that make sense?

And as for it being less than 5%, well no shit, sherlock. How big do you think lateral delts can get? Biceps can’t be much more than 5% if that but you bet your ass we’re training them. Maybe we shouldn’t bother…

Again with these percentages. Do you use lube when you reach into your ass and pull them out or is it so loose down there they just fall out when you fart?

You know what I meant by “cosmetic” so don’t play dumb. You’re coming across dumb enough without having to try.

And yes, curls and extensions are enough to build arms, but most 5x5 programs don’t have them which is why I hate the 5x5 recommendation as a blanket program regardless of goals by nimrods like you.

It’s ludicrous eh? Natural bodybuilders and enhanced bodybuilders train the exact fucking same way.

Why does nobody get that?

Oh hi guys!

I just had 1 thing I wanted to address. Craze mentioned something along the lines of ‘you can get big, but you won’t get strong using sets of 15 all the time’. Bauber is a PERFECT example of this being false. From what he’s told me, he never goes below 10 reps on any lift, and loves the 20 rep range, even on compound movements like bench press. And he is IMMENSELY strong. The dude can bench 405 for 10+ reps. Not only that, I know he was huge (like 260 lbs) when he was still natural, and putting up huge numbers as well, training exactly the same way.

Another example of a guy who trained mostly in the 10+ rep range throughout the year was Ed Coan. He only started dropping reps when he was 6 weeks or so out of a meet. But he built his strength through high rep work.

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