[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
FACT: Unemployed Americans ‘drop off’ the unemployement rolls once they can not collect unemployment which is after 6 months.
[/quote]
This is true and is not new.
[quote]
Our unemployment is actually closer to 8% than 4%.[/quote]
What is the source of your 8%?
What is has this rate been for the last 20 years?
Without more data this doesn’t mean much.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
FACT: Unemployed Americans ‘drop off’ the unemployement rolls once they can not collect unemployment which is after 6 months.
Our unemployment is actually closer to 8% than 4%.[/quote]
It’s not supposed to be a perfect measure – it’s a measure for comparison’s sake. And the point was for an historical comparison. So unless you have some sort of data showing a differential in the historic number of “discouraged” workers, I fail to see your point.
BTW, FYI, the number of discouraged workers tends to be smaller when the unemployment number is smaller - because you’re getting closer to “full employment” and its easier for everyone who wishes to do so to find work.
2002
The top-ranked M.B.A. programs in The Wall Street Journal/Harris Interactive survey of corporate recruiters. Scores are based on how recruiters rated each business school on 26 attributes, as well as the number of respondents who said they recruited at the school
1 Dartmouth College (Tuck)
2 University of Michigan
3 Carnegie Mellon University
4 Northwestern University (Kellogg)
5 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
6 University of Chicago
7 University of Texas at Austin (McCombs) 8 Yale University
9 Harvard University
10 Columbia University
11 Purdue University (Krannert)
12 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler)
13 Michigan State University (Broad)
14 Indiana University (Kelley)
15 University of California at Berkeley
16 University of Maryland (Smith)
17 Emory University (Goizueta)
18 Ohio State University (Fisher)
19 Cornell University (Johnson)
20 University of Virginia (Darden)
21 IMD International
22 University of Rochester (Simon)
23 Wake Forest University (Babcock)
24 New York University (Stern)
25 Duke University (Fuqua)
26 Vanderbilt University (Owen)
27 Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey (ITESM)
28 IPADE
29 Southern Methodist University (Cox)
30 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
31 University of Notre Dame (Mendoza)
32 Washington University (Olin)
33 Escuela Superior de Administracion y Direccion de Empresas (ESADE)
34 Thunderbird, the American Graduate School of International Management
35 University of Southern California (Marshall)
36 University of California at Los Angeles (Anderson)
37 Insead
38 Brigham Young University (Marriott)
39 Stanford University
2003
The top-ranked M.B.A. programs in The Wall Street Journal/Harris Interactive survey of corporate recruiters. Scores are based on how recruiters rated each business school on 26 attributes, as well as the number of respondents who said they recruited at the school. A total of 2,191 recruiters participated in the survey, with each school receiving at least 20 ratings.
1 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
2 Dartmouth College (Tuck)
3 University of Michigan
4 Northwestern University (Kellogg)
5 University of Chicago
6 Carnegie Mellon University
7 Columbia University
8 Harvard University
.
.
.
(I got tired of formatting. Here’s Stanford)
30 Stanford University
he national ranking is based on how recruiters rated each school on 20 different attributes, their future plans to recruit at the school, and the number of survey respondents who said they had recruited recently at the school. These schools enjoy a national reputation and tend to draw recruiters from many of the same companies, usually large national and multinational firms that pay high starting salaries.
(This list is only in the U.S.)
1 Dartmouth College (Tuck)
2 University of Michigan (Ross)
3 Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper)
4 Northwestern University (Kellogg)
5 Yale University
6 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
7 University of California, Berkeley (Haas)
8 Columbia University
9 University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler)
10 University of Southern California (Marshall)
11 University of Virginia (Darden)
12 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan)
13 University of Chicago
14 Harvard University
15 Stanford University
2005
This ranking includes European, North American and Central American schools that have a global pool of recruiters. It is based on how recruiters rated each school on 20 different attributes, their future plans to recruit students from the school, and the number of countries from which it draws recruiters. To be eligible for this ranking, a school needed respondents from at least four countries.
1 IMD
2 ESADE Business School
3 Carnegie Mellon University
4 Instituto Panamericano de Alta Direccion de Empresa
5 University of London (London Business School)
6 University of Western Ontario (Ivey)
7 Thunderbird
8 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan)
9 INSEAD
10 INCAE
11 HEC School of Management, Paris
12 Instituto de Empresa
13 Columbia University
14 Erasmus University (Rotterdam)
15 York University (Schulich)
16 University of Chicago
17 Harvard University
18 Stanford University
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/04/index.html#top30
1 Northwestern
2 Chicago
3 Pennsylvania
4 Stanford
5 Harvard
http://www.forbes.com/cms/template/lists/results.jhtml?passListId=95&passYear=2003&passListType=Misc&resultsStart=1&resultsHowMany=25&resultsSortProperties=-numberfield1%2C%2Bstringfield1&resultsSortCategoryName=5-year%2Bgain%2B(%24thou)&category1=Region&searchParameter1=4Str||PatCS||United+States&category2=category2&searchParameter2=unset
1 Harvard
2 Columbia
3 Chicago
4 Dartmouth (Tuck)
5 Yale
6 Pennsylvania (Wharton)
7 Stanford
http://cbet.uwaterloo.ca/MBA-reallyworth.html
What’s an MBA Really Worth?
Still more pointed is an upcoming study by Jeffrey Pfeffer, a management professor at Glauthier’s own business alma mater, Stanford. In it Pfeffer challenges the bedrock assumption of business school: that those who make the effort to get an MBA degree have more successful careers than those who don’t. Pfeffer combs through 40 years’ worth of data for evidence that this is true – and uncovers almost none. He quotes Ronald Burt, a University of Chicago business professor and the researcher behind two of the studies in Pfeffer’s paper, who says, “I have never found benefits for the MBA degree. Usually it just makes you a couple years older than non-MBA peers.”
Keep Your CEO Out Of Grad School
Ignorance Pays
Degree Median total return
No Advanced Degree 16.0%
Doctorate 15.5
Master’s Degree 15.3
M.B.A. 15.2
Law Degree 13.9
[quote]biltritewave wrote:
to claim that stanford is the best in the world along with harvard is laughable. I will bet 9 out to 10 people when someone says best university in the world, names Harvard, or Oxford…[/quote]
As I said, I’ll give you Harvard. But not Oxford – but I’ll give you Cambridge:
http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005_Top100.htm
Cambridge is one of the most leftist Universities in the world, even for European standards. In fact, there isn’t a SINGLE conservative in the city council, in great part due to the Cambridge students:
Stanford is, again, right after Harvard and Cambridge.
By the way, my other ultra-liberal alma mater, Berkeley, is right after Stanford.
So, let me correct myself – the TOP FOUR UNIVERSITIES IN THE WORLD – Harvard, Cambridge, Stanford and Berkeley – all “happen” to be ultra-liberal.
[quote]doogie wrote:
…
http://cbet.uwaterloo.ca/MBA-reallyworth.html
What’s an MBA Really Worth?
Still more pointed is an upcoming study by Jeffrey Pfeffer, a management professor at Glauthier’s own business alma mater, Stanford. In it Pfeffer challenges the bedrock assumption of business school: that those who make the effort to get an MBA degree have more successful careers than those who don’t. Pfeffer combs through 40 years’ worth of data for evidence that this is true – and uncovers almost none. He quotes Ronald Burt, a University of Chicago business professor and the researcher behind two of the studies in Pfeffer’s paper, who says, “I have never found benefits for the MBA degree. Usually it just makes you a couple years older than non-MBA peers.”
Keep Your CEO Out Of Grad School
Ignorance Pays
Degree Median total return
No Advanced Degree 16.0%
Doctorate 15.5
Master’s Degree 15.3
M.B.A. 15.2
Law Degree 13.9
[/quote]
I agree with this. In my experience those managers with MBAs (even from Wharton) are universally worse at their jobs than their peers that have worked their way into managerial jobs by climbing up the ladder.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
FACT: Unemployed Americans ‘drop off’ the unemployement rolls once they can not collect unemployment which is after 6 months.
Our unemployment is actually closer to 8% than 4%.[/quote]
perhaps its from all the illegal aliens
[quote]doogie wrote:
2002
The top-ranked M.B.A. programs in The Wall Street Journal/Harris Interactive survey of corporate recruiters. Scores are based on how recruiters rated each business school on 26 attributes, as well as the number of respondents who said they recruited at the school
1 Dartmouth College (Tuck)
2 University of Michigan
3 Carnegie Mellon University
4 Northwestern University (Kellogg)
5 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
6 University of Chicago
7 University of Texas at Austin (McCombs) 8 Yale University
9 Harvard University
10 Columbia University
11 Purdue University (Krannert)
12 University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler)
13 Michigan State University (Broad)
14 Indiana University (Kelley)
15 University of California at Berkeley
16 University of Maryland (Smith)
17 Emory University (Goizueta)
18 Ohio State University (Fisher)
19 Cornell University (Johnson)
20 University of Virginia (Darden)
21 IMD International
22 University of Rochester (Simon)
23 Wake Forest University (Babcock)
24 New York University (Stern)
25 Duke University (Fuqua)
26 Vanderbilt University (Owen)
27 Instituto Tecnologico y de Estudios Superiores de Monterrey (ITESM)
28 IPADE
29 Southern Methodist University (Cox)
30 Massachusetts Institute of Technology
31 University of Notre Dame (Mendoza)
32 Washington University (Olin)
33 Escuela Superior de Administracion y Direccion de Empresas (ESADE)
34 Thunderbird, the American Graduate School of International Management
35 University of Southern California (Marshall)
36 University of California at Los Angeles (Anderson)
37 Insead
38 Brigham Young University (Marriott)
39 Stanford University
2003
The top-ranked M.B.A. programs in The Wall Street Journal/Harris Interactive survey of corporate recruiters. Scores are based on how recruiters rated each business school on 26 attributes, as well as the number of respondents who said they recruited at the school. A total of 2,191 recruiters participated in the survey, with each school receiving at least 20 ratings.
1 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
2 Dartmouth College (Tuck)
3 University of Michigan
4 Northwestern University (Kellogg)
5 University of Chicago
6 Carnegie Mellon University
7 Columbia University
8 Harvard University
.
.
.
(I got tired of formatting. Here’s Stanford)
30 Stanford University
he national ranking is based on how recruiters rated each school on 20 different attributes, their future plans to recruit at the school, and the number of survey respondents who said they had recruited recently at the school. These schools enjoy a national reputation and tend to draw recruiters from many of the same companies, usually large national and multinational firms that pay high starting salaries.
(This list is only in the U.S.)
1 Dartmouth College (Tuck)
2 University of Michigan (Ross)
3 Carnegie Mellon University (Tepper)
4 Northwestern University (Kellogg)
5 Yale University
6 University of Pennsylvania (Wharton)
7 University of California, Berkeley (Haas)
8 Columbia University
9 University of North Carolina, Chapel Hill (Kenan-Flagler)
10 University of Southern California (Marshall)
11 University of Virginia (Darden)
12 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan)
13 University of Chicago
14 Harvard University
15 Stanford University
2005
This ranking includes European, North American and Central American schools that have a global pool of recruiters. It is based on how recruiters rated each school on 20 different attributes, their future plans to recruit students from the school, and the number of countries from which it draws recruiters. To be eligible for this ranking, a school needed respondents from at least four countries.
1 IMD
2 ESADE Business School
3 Carnegie Mellon University
4 Instituto Panamericano de Alta Direccion de Empresa
5 University of London (London Business School)
6 University of Western Ontario (Ivey)
7 Thunderbird
8 Massachusetts Institute of Technology (Sloan)
9 INSEAD
10 INCAE
11 HEC School of Management, Paris
12 Instituto de Empresa
13 Columbia University
14 Erasmus University (Rotterdam)
15 York University (Schulich)
16 University of Chicago
17 Harvard University
18 Stanford University
http://www.businessweek.com/bschools/04/index.html#top30
1 Northwestern
2 Chicago
3 Pennsylvania
4 Stanford
5 Harvard
http://www.forbes.com/cms/template/lists/results.jhtml?passListId=95&passYear=2003&passListType=Misc&resultsStart=1&resultsHowMany=25&resultsSortProperties=-numberfield1%2C%2Bstringfield1&resultsSortCategoryName=5-year%2Bgain%2B(%24thou)&category1=Region&searchParameter1=4Str||PatCS||United+States&category2=category2&searchParameter2=unset
1 Harvard
2 Columbia
3 Chicago
4 Dartmouth (Tuck)
5 Yale
6 Pennsylvania (Wharton)
7 Stanford
http://cbet.uwaterloo.ca/MBA-reallyworth.html
What’s an MBA Really Worth?
Still more pointed is an upcoming study by Jeffrey Pfeffer, a management professor at Glauthier’s own business alma mater, Stanford. In it Pfeffer challenges the bedrock assumption of business school: that those who make the effort to get an MBA degree have more successful careers than those who don’t. Pfeffer combs through 40 years’ worth of data for evidence that this is true – and uncovers almost none. He quotes Ronald Burt, a University of Chicago business professor and the researcher behind two of the studies in Pfeffer’s paper, who says, “I have never found benefits for the MBA degree. Usually it just makes you a couple years older than non-MBA peers.”
Keep Your CEO Out Of Grad School
Ignorance Pays
Degree Median total return
No Advanced Degree 16.0%
Doctorate 15.5
Master’s Degree 15.3
M.B.A. 15.2
Law Degree 13.9
[/quote]
Thanks doogie, glad to know my alma mater is at the top of most lists. Come to Dartmouth, Where we make men.
“Men hang out their signs indicative of their respective trades; shoe makers hang out a gigantic shoe; jewelers a monster watch, and the dentist hangs out a gold tooth; but up in the Mountains of New Hampshire, God Almighty has hung out a sign to show that there He makes men.”–Daniel Webster.
[quote]hspder wrote:
biltritewave wrote:
to claim that stanford is the best in the world along with harvard is laughable. I will bet 9 out to 10 people when someone says best university in the world, names Harvard, or Oxford…
As I said, I’ll give you Harvard. But not Oxford – but I’ll give you Cambridge:
http://ed.sjtu.edu.cn/rank/2005/ARWU2005_Top100.htm
Cambridge is one of the most leftist Universities in the world, even for European standards. In fact, there isn’t a SINGLE conservative in the city council, in great part due to the Cambridge students:
Stanford is, again, right after Harvard and Cambridge.
By the way, my other ultra-liberal alma mater, Berkeley, is right after Stanford.
So, let me correct myself – the TOP FOUR UNIVERSITIES IN THE WORLD – Harvard, Cambridge, Stanford and Berkeley – all “happen” to be ultra-liberal.
[/quote]
Thanks for your opinion…but it means jack squat. Thanks, Me
[quote]rainjack wrote:
Marmadogg wrote:
FACT: Unemployed Americans ‘drop off’ the unemployement rolls once they can not collect unemployment which is after 6 months.
Our unemployment is actually closer to 8% than 4%.
Self-employed Americans do not show up on the list at all. Who do I file with if I fire myself, or I downsize?
You gotta do better than just pullingoff an 8% unemployment figure out of your ass.
Picking and choosing what you want to be true is just idiotic. [/quote]
Even when Clenis was by default enjoying the DotCom boom our unemployment figures were largely under reported.
The arguement regarding self-employment is used by every administration and laughed at by the other political party.
I say BS no matter which party is in power.
Our economy is still doing better than any other country.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I agree with this. In my experience those managers with MBAs (even from Wharton) are universally worse at their jobs than their peers that have worked their way into managerial jobs by climbing up the ladder.[/quote]
That makes sense.
[quote]doogie wrote:
What’s an MBA Really Worth?
Keep Your CEO Out Of Grad School
Ignorance Pays[/quote]
I’ll be the first to admit that an MBA doesn’t pay financially. At all. All claims otherwise are bogus, I agree.
People don’t get MBAs at Stanford or Harvard to become rich. They come in to learn, and to have a life- and mind-enriching experience. And that’s what we provide them. They do become more knowledgeable professionals, but, as we all know, more knowledgeable professionals don’t necessarily get better pay, especially in a business world where greed is the most valued asset.
Anyway, this will be my last post defending Stanford. I really don’t have to – we only admit 1 out of 10 applicants already, and it’s not like any of the conservatives attacking it (or their family) is thinking of applying. So it’s a waste of my time defending it as much as it is a waste of your time attacking it; it serves no practical purpose.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I agree with this. In my experience those managers with MBAs (even from Wharton) are universally worse at their jobs than their peers that have worked their way into managerial jobs by climbing up the ladder.[/quote]
That’s because being a manager is more than taking a few courses in college. You have to actually spend some time being a manager in a corporate setting to get a true appreciation for the position. It’s just like “under the bar knowledge” vs. “armchair weightlifters”. Theories don’t mean jack without experience.
This is just too fucking funny.
Maybe Stanford in the greatest among tenured professors that sit around telling each other how smart they all are each day.
[quote]Marmadogg wrote:
Even when Clenis was by default enjoying the DotCom boom our unemployment figures were largely under reported.
The arguement regarding self-employment is used by every administration and laughed at by the other political party.
I say BS no matter which party is in power.
Our economy is still doing better than any other country.[/quote]
As one of the self employed that are laughed at - I can say from experience that this should not be scoffed at.
I do over 300 tax returns a year. Well over half of them are self-employed. So these guys don’t count in the employment figures, but they are all fully employed.
Go figure.
[quote]hspder wrote:
doogie wrote:
What’s an MBA Really Worth?
Keep Your CEO Out Of Grad School
Ignorance Pays
I’ll be the first to admit that an MBA doesn’t pay financially. At all. All claims otherwise are bogus, I agree.
People don’t get MBAs at Stanford or Harvard to become rich. They come in to learn, and to have a life- and mind-enriching experience. And that’s what we provide them. They do become more knowledgeable professionals, but, as we all know, more knowledgeable professionals don’t necessarily get better pay, especially in a business world where greed is the most valued asset.
Anyway, this will be my last post defending Stanford. I really don’t have to – we only admit 1 out of 10 applicants already, and it’s not like any of the conservatives attacking it (or their family) is thinking of applying. So it’s a waste of my time defending it as much as it is a waste of your time attacking it; it serves no practical purpose.
[/quote]
there are plenty of other schools that are equally selective…prior to the internet apps Dartmouth was the most selective school in the country…i wouldnt go equating that to best. Upenn took the mantle over after that for awhile because they doubled their applications through email campaigns. If thats the best you can do to claim stanford as the best then clearly you are mistaken…
and i’ll agree with you on the usefullness of degrees. You pay for it as in investment. Its worth more saying you went to __________(insert any number of good schools here) more so than the actual education you receive.
[quote]ALDurr wrote:
That’s because being a manager is more than taking a few courses in college. You have to actually spend some time being a manager in a corporate setting to get a true appreciation for the position. It’s just like “under the bar knowledge” vs. “armchair weightlifters”. Theories don’t mean jack without experience. [/quote]
I agree 100%. And that’s why I keep telling the admissions office that it is critical that they look for relevant experience. And they do comply – I’m pretty sure Zap did not meet any Harvard or Stanford GSB alumni or he’d have a different opinion of MBAs.
[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
I agree with this. In my experience those managers with MBAs (even from Wharton) are universally worse at their jobs than their peers that have worked their way into managerial jobs by climbing up the ladder.[/quote]
Hijack: My buddy who just graduated from Wharton got married last weekend - bachelor party was last month. If drinking copious amounts of beer helps to make you an excellent manager, those guys are well on their way to superlative.
Let’s pretend the economy really is doing poorly. How would this be fixed?
[quote]grew7 wrote:
Let’s pretend the economy really is doing poorly. How would this be fixed?[/quote]
My basic two premises (objectives) are to increase productivity and reduce debt – i.e., shift from “fake” money (debt) to “real” money (productivity).
I’m in a hurry, so sorry if I lump everything together:
a) Complete re-haul of the taxation system, in order to support a decrease in public debt without hampering productivity growth. And no, I’m not suggesting MORE taxes – just better ones. And yes, we absolutely and totally need to stop having a budget deficit and start working on having budget surpluses to pay back our absurd debt.
b) Universal Health Care system designed to reduce US health care costs and actually improve preventative health – including, but not limited to, reducing the obesity problem – in order to also reduce future health costs and increase productivity (by curbing productivity losses due to poor health)
c) Reduction in tuition costs, increase in education subsidies and other incentives to increase the education level of Americans, along with targeted initiatives to bring the US to the forefront of every scientific and technological area, creating thousands of high-profile, high-paying jobs that we desperately need.
d) A structured plan to put a brake on the exploding consumer debt – including mortgages. This might include, but not be limited to, actual realistic rules on how much credit lenders are allowed to extend to people. Interest-only loans are a definite no-no, for example.
[quote]hspder wrote:
grew7 wrote:
Let’s pretend the economy really is doing poorly. How would this be fixed?
My basic two premises (objectives) are to increase productivity and reduce debt – i.e., shift from “fake” money (debt) to “real” money (productivity).
I’m in a hurry, so sorry if I lump everything together:
a) Complete re-haul of the taxation system, in order to support a decrease in public debt without hampering productivity growth. And no, I’m not suggesting MORE taxes – just better ones. And yes, we absolutely and totally need to stop having a budget deficit and start working on having budget surpluses to pay back our absurd debt.
b) Universal Health Care system designed to reduce US health care costs and actually improve preventative health – including, but not limited to, reducing the obesity problem – in order to also reduce future health costs and increase productivity (by curbing productivity losses due to poor health)
c) Reduction in tuition costs, increase in education subsidies and other incentives to increase the education level of Americans, along with targeted initiatives to bring the US to the forefront of every scientific and technological area, creating thousands of high-profile, high-paying jobs that we desperately need.
d) A structured plan to put a brake on the exploding consumer debt – including mortgages. This might include, but not be limited to, actual realistic rules on how much credit lenders are allowed to extend to people. Interest-only loans are a definite no-no, for example.
[/quote]
How can you say we should increase education subsidies? We now spend twice as much on education than most other industrialized countries and get half the return…clearly adding more money is not the answer. If we had teachers that werent paid an ass load regardless of competence then many of our problems would be diminished with regard to education
also, what kind of tax are you advocating. I am all for switching to a consumption driven tax rather than a production driven tax but the chances of that happening any time soon…doubtful.