T Nation

Thank You, President Bush

Is this the kind of freedom and democracy you send kids around the globe, to fight and die for?

Only the Jailers Are Safe

Ever since the world learned of the lawless state of American military prisons in Iraq, the administration has hidden behind the claim that only a few bad apples were brutalizing prisoners. President Bush also has dodged the full force of public outrage because the victims were foreigners, mostly Muslims, captured in what he has painted as a war against Islamic terrorists bent on destroying America.

This week, The Times published two articles that reminded us again that the American military prisons are profoundly and systemically broken and that no one is safe from the summary judgment and harsh treatment institutionalized by the White House and the Pentagon after 9/11.

On Monday, Michael Moss wrote about a U.S. contractor who was swept up in a military raid and dumped into a system where everyone is presumed guilty and denied any chance to prove otherwise.

Donald Vance, a 29-year-old Navy veteran from Chicago, was a whistle-blower who prompted the raid by tipping off the F.B.I. to suspicious activity at the company where he worked, including possible weapons trafficking. He was arrested and held for 97 days ? shackled and blindfolded, prevented from sleeping by blaring music and round-the-clock lights. In other words, he was subjected to the same mistreatment that thousands of non-Americans have been subjected to since the 2003 invasion.

Even after the military learned who Mr. Vance was, they continued to hold him in these abusive conditions for weeks more. He was not allowed to defend himself at the Potemkin hearing held to justify his detention. And that was special treatment. As an American citizen, he was at least allowed to attend his hearing. An Iraqi, or an Afghani, or any other foreigner, would have been barred from the room.

This is not the handiwork of a few out-of-control sadists at Abu Ghraib. This is a system that was created and operated outside American law and American standards of decency. Except for the few low-ranking soldiers periodically punished for abusing prisoners, it is a system without any accountability.

Yesterday, David Johnston reported that nearly 20 cases in which civilian contractors were accused of abusing detainees have been sent to the Justice Department. So far, the record is perfect: not a single indictment.

Administration officials said that prosecutors were hobbled by a lack of evidence and witnesses, or that the military?s cases were simply shoddy. This sounds like another excuse from an administration that has papered over prisoner abuse and denied there is any connection between Mr. Bush?s decision to flout the Geneva Conventions and the repeated cases of abuse and torture. We hope the new Congress will be more aggressive on this issue than the last one, which was more bent on preserving the Republican majority than preserving American values and rights. The lawless nature of Mr. Bush?s war on terror has already cost the nation dearly in terms of global prestige, while increasing the risks facing every American serving in the military.

Yawn…

This doesn’t bother you even a little bit HH?

To ask a softball question, what if it were you?

C

[quote]Creidem wrote:
This doesn’t bother you even a little bit HH?

To ask a softball question, what if it were you?

C[/quote]

Nope, doesn’t bother me at all.

Next time you’re in a confrontation, play by the rules while your opponent doesn’t. What will happen?

I remember people saying that this kind of stuff could NEVER happen to a US citizen.

So much for that idea.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Creidem wrote:
This doesn’t bother you even a little bit HH?

To ask a softball question, what if it were you?

C

Nope, doesn’t bother me at all.

Next time you’re in a confrontation, play by the rules while your opponent doesn’t. What will happen?

[/quote]

This is indeed a question anyone confronted with the American Justice system should ask themselves.

But then again,a few more years now and they will be so corrupt that you can at least buy some justice.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Yawn…

[/quote]
About what we’d expect.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Creidem wrote:
This doesn’t bother you even a little bit HH?

To ask a softball question, what if it were you?

C

Nope, doesn’t bother me at all.

Next time you’re in a confrontation, play by the rules while your opponent doesn’t. What will happen?

[/quote]

Then why should we expect the people we are trying to subjugate to play by our rules?

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Yawn…

About what we’d expect.
[/quote]

That I’d find you boring? What else WOULD you expect?

Look, you guys probably live in nice well-mannered suburbs. I’ve been homeless and lived in shitholes. Power is everything. If you want to live in a country that never offends anyone, never stands up to be counted, move to France, Belgium, or one of those wonderful cesspools of socialism.

Damn! I tried to quit posting in here but I let Wreckless or Worthless or whatever the fuck his name is, piss me off. Good job, Worthless!!

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Power is everything.
[/quote]

Power is an illusion–especially in this country. Power never lasts.

[quote]LIFTICVSMAXIMVS wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Power is everything.

Power is an illusion–especially in this country. Power never lasts.[/quote]

Of course not, which is why we must eventually end up in a fascistic dictatorship. The effort on the part of powerful people to make it last must result in totalitarianism. They’d lose their power otherwise.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Creidem wrote:
This doesn’t bother you even a little bit HH?

To ask a softball question, what if it were you?

C

Nope, doesn’t bother me at all.

Next time you’re in a confrontation, play by the rules while your opponent doesn’t. What will happen?

[/quote]

You actually don’t have a problem that an innocent Iraqi or Afgan might get falsly arrested and get treated like a terrorist when he is actually not a terrorist?

HH your like a ping pong ball getting hit back and forth in these forums. It’s hilarious.

[quote]Headhunter wrote:
Look, you guys probably live in nice well-mannered suburbs. I’ve been homeless and lived in shitholes.
[/quote]

[quote]40yarddash wrote:
Headhunter wrote:
Creidem wrote:
This doesn’t bother you even a little bit HH?

To ask a softball question, what if it were you?

C

Nope, doesn’t bother me at all.

Next time you’re in a confrontation, play by the rules while your opponent doesn’t. What will happen?

You actually don’t have a problem that an innocent Iraqi or Afgan might get falsly arrested and get treated like a terrorist when he is actually not a terrorist?[/quote]

How do YOU propose to know if a person is innocent or guilty? Do you have a mind-reading machine?

Sherman’s phrase, “War is hell.” is the truth.

[quote]Petedacook wrote:
HH your like a ping pong ball getting hit back and forth in these forums. It’s hilarious. [/quote]

It is ‘you’re’, Petey, not ‘your’. Poor attempt at flaming and lousy writing skills…tsk, tsk,…

But, but, but, . . .

You guys went it to liberate these people. And to put down a tyrant. To spread freedom and democracy and all that crap.
You expected your soldiers to be showered in flowers. Remember that HH ? ? ?

A cakewalk. It was supposed to be a cakewalk.

And slam dunk.

Remember that HH ? ? ?

We didn’t believe it. But you did.

And when we tried to warn you, we were naive, and you guys knew better. And you had all this intelligence that you couldn’t tell us about.

And now that push comes to shove, you just dismiss this. You go all blasee and say that this is how it was going to end. And you knew all along?

It’s not hard HH. You just say: “I’m sorry. I was wrong. You were right”.

Come on now. Say it. It will make you feel better.

You were a fool for believing a fool. And you’re still a fool for not admitting it. Waiting for the next fool to fool you.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Is this the kind of freedom and democracy you send kids around the globe, to fight and die for?

Only the Jailers Are Safe

Ever since the world learned of the lawless state of American military prisons in Iraq, the administration has hidden behind the claim that only a few bad apples were brutalizing prisoners. President Bush also has dodged the full force of public outrage because the victims were foreigners, mostly Muslims, captured in what he has painted as a war against Islamic terrorists bent on destroying America.

This week, The Times published two articles that reminded us again that the American military prisons are profoundly and systemically broken and that no one is safe from the summary judgment and harsh treatment institutionalized by the White House and the Pentagon after 9/11.

On Monday, Michael Moss wrote about a U.S. contractor who was swept up in a military raid and dumped into a system where everyone is presumed guilty and denied any chance to prove otherwise.

Donald Vance, a 29-year-old Navy veteran from Chicago, was a whistle-blower who prompted the raid by tipping off the F.B.I. to suspicious activity at the company where he worked, including possible weapons trafficking. He was arrested and held for 97 days ? shackled and blindfolded, prevented from sleeping by blaring music and round-the-clock lights. In other words, he was subjected to the same mistreatment that thousands of non-Americans have been subjected to since the 2003 invasion.

Even after the military learned who Mr. Vance was, they continued to hold him in these abusive conditions for weeks more. He was not allowed to defend himself at the Potemkin hearing held to justify his detention. And that was special treatment. As an American citizen, he was at least allowed to attend his hearing. An Iraqi, or an Afghani, or any other foreigner, would have been barred from the room.

This is not the handiwork of a few out-of-control sadists at Abu Ghraib. This is a system that was created and operated outside American law and American standards of decency. Except for the few low-ranking soldiers periodically punished for abusing prisoners, it is a system without any accountability.

Yesterday, David Johnston reported that nearly 20 cases in which civilian contractors were accused of abusing detainees have been sent to the Justice Department. So far, the record is perfect: not a single indictment.

Administration officials said that prosecutors were hobbled by a lack of evidence and witnesses, or that the military?s cases were simply shoddy. This sounds like another excuse from an administration that has papered over prisoner abuse and denied there is any connection between Mr. Bush?s decision to flout the Geneva Conventions and the repeated cases of abuse and torture. We hope the new Congress will be more aggressive on this issue than the last one, which was more bent on preserving the Republican majority than preserving American values and rights. The lawless nature of Mr. Bush?s war on terror has already cost the nation dearly in terms of global prestige, while increasing the risks facing every American serving in the military.

[/quote]

FUCK YOU. yore not a patriot your a libral duchebag whom hates america & our troops. why else would he post this shit!

[quote]Gambles wrote:
Wreckless wrote:
Is this the kind of freedom and democracy you send kids around the globe, to fight and die for?

Only the Jailers Are Safe

Ever since the world learned of the lawless state of American military prisons in Iraq, the administration has hidden behind the claim that only a few bad apples were brutalizing prisoners. President Bush also has dodged the full force of public outrage because the victims were foreigners, mostly Muslims, captured in what he has painted as a war against Islamic terrorists bent on destroying America.

This week, The Times published two articles that reminded us again that the American military prisons are profoundly and systemically broken and that no one is safe from the summary judgment and harsh treatment institutionalized by the White House and the Pentagon after 9/11.

On Monday, Michael Moss wrote about a U.S. contractor who was swept up in a military raid and dumped into a system where everyone is presumed guilty and denied any chance to prove otherwise.

Donald Vance, a 29-year-old Navy veteran from Chicago, was a whistle-blower who prompted the raid by tipping off the F.B.I. to suspicious activity at the company where he worked, including possible weapons trafficking. He was arrested and held for 97 days ? shackled and blindfolded, prevented from sleeping by blaring music and round-the-clock lights. In other words, he was subjected to the same mistreatment that thousands of non-Americans have been subjected to since the 2003 invasion.

Even after the military learned who Mr. Vance was, they continued to hold him in these abusive conditions for weeks more. He was not allowed to defend himself at the Potemkin hearing held to justify his detention. And that was special treatment. As an American citizen, he was at least allowed to attend his hearing. An Iraqi, or an Afghani, or any other foreigner, would have been barred from the room.

This is not the handiwork of a few out-of-control sadists at Abu Ghraib. This is a system that was created and operated outside American law and American standards of decency. Except for the few low-ranking soldiers periodically punished for abusing prisoners, it is a system without any accountability.

Yesterday, David Johnston reported that nearly 20 cases in which civilian contractors were accused of abusing detainees have been sent to the Justice Department. So far, the record is perfect: not a single indictment.

Administration officials said that prosecutors were hobbled by a lack of evidence and witnesses, or that the military?s cases were simply shoddy. This sounds like another excuse from an administration that has papered over prisoner abuse and denied there is any connection between Mr. Bush?s decision to flout the Geneva Conventions and the repeated cases of abuse and torture. We hope the new Congress will be more aggressive on this issue than the last one, which was more bent on preserving the Republican majority than preserving American values and rights. The lawless nature of Mr. Bush?s war on terror has already cost the nation dearly in terms of global prestige, while increasing the risks facing every American serving in the military.

FUCK YOU. yore not a patriot your a libral duchebag whom hates america & our troops. why else would he post this shit!
[/quote]

Wreckless lives in a country that is incapable of standing up against evil. He tries to justify that by saying that NO country should take a stand against evil. Like most Europeans, he is suicidal w/o even realizing it. He’ll sneer and insult, but its really his death-wish coming out.

[quote]Gambles wrote:
FUCK YOU. yore not a patriot your a libral duchebag whom hates america & our troops. why else would he post this shit!
[/quote]

HAHAHA. Another one of HH’s students surfaces.