[quote]Jack Strummer wrote:
Somehow I knew this was a plug-in.[/quote]
There is no way the guy is associated with the company.
He has 4 posts, he just came in to stir up some chaos.
[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Sorry, guys; I think you’re mistaken here. All the research I’ve read has noted that the effects of EPA and DHA take quite a bit of time to kick in. It’s a matter of integrating these fatty acids into your body’s cell membranes, and it doesn’t happen on a large scale overnight.
It’s a great supplement, no doubt, but really not applicable to this situation.[/quote]
If I understand the original post correctly, he’s been taking FLAMEOUT since it was released, not just the night of the accident.
I’m curious whether he had been supplementing with DHA/EPA prior to this product.
Why give the guy a hard time?
The other night, I got shot!
I took 6 FLAMEOUT, packed the hole with Metabolic Drive (chocolate), and went to sleep.
When I woke up, not only was the hole healed, but I had also picked up another pound of LBM.
[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
Why wouldn’t a high-potency DHA supplement lessen the effects of trauma such as this?
Inflammation is inflammation, it doesn’t matter how it’s inflicted.
[/quote]
Worst post ever.
To a small degree it would lessen the effects if he’s been using it over time. But not to the degree to where he wouldn’t need to seek medical advice after an accident.
[quote]newbody wrote:
Why give the guy a hard time?
The other night, I got shot!
I took 6 FLAMEOUT, packed the hole with Metabolic Drive (chocolate), and went to sleep.
When I woke up, not only was the hole healed, but I had also picked up another pound of LBM.[/quote]
I’ve found that Spike gives me xray vision. Pain in the hole when you’re trying to sleep though, on account of being able to see through your eyelids.
[quote]Jack Strummer wrote:
Somehow I knew this was a plug-in.[/quote]
One of the websites most respected author just said FLAMEOUT doesn’t work like this. This is not Biotest planting phony testemonial.
It is just a poor guy that wrecked his motorcycle.
Cripes! Stop telling the guy it will have no effect… next thing you know the dude will be limping around with a swollen leg cursing you all.
Well, I had planned on posting on how nothing changed since my last accidents except supplementation of Omega-3?s?I was wrong.
Today at work I looked at my file to tell when my last accident was, we have to retain that stuff for 7 years (Excused absences), at any rate it was July 20th 2004. And I was out work 2 days.
So what?s changed since then? Well, a lot, and it mostly had to do with this site.
If you?d just like to simply flame me, skip this next part, If you choose to read it you?ll know more about me than most people who know me in person.
Back in 04 I was 280lbs and over 20% BF, I ate candy and chips because they are always around, and one meal a day, taco bell, because there is one right next to where I live and it was cheap, Thankfully I?ve gotten a few raises since than and can eat better.
So, now, onto what changed. One time, I had to run up the stairs to my apartment, I got about 1 floor before I was completely out of breath, back then I was the very definition of sedentary, and I did nothing to change it because my back hurt so much that any time I?d try to lose weight (By not eating and trying to jog) it got worse.
Some time in the future (Not to long after the second accident) I picked up a bodybuilding magazine, I read through it, ready to run with some crazy-ass workout when I saw an ad for a Biotest product, I forget exactly which one it was…I think redbands, but I?m not 100% sure. That night I was Googling all the supps I saw advertised in the mag and by some stroke of luck came across T-Nation.
I started using all the info I could put to use and almost 2 years later, I?m currently 218 14% BF.
So I guess more then just Omega-3 supplementation changed in between these accidents, but in my mind, the empty bottle sitting in the trash, and the freshly opened bottle of Flameout with ?Inflammation scavenger? in big, red, letters sitting in my fridge was the first thing I thought of when the next morning I woke up and had minimal swelling.
And yes, I?d supplemented EPA/DHA long before this accident, and had just finished the first bottle of flameout the day before.
I guess my thread should have been titled. "Thank you, contributors of T-Nation?
Also, I notice no one has said anything about the ice massage I did/have been doing, I figured the more flame-happy among you would find some way to tell me I?m doing that wrong, too.
I love reading a good success story. Nice work. 
[quote]big69penisman wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
Why wouldn’t a high-potency DHA supplement lessen the effects of trauma such as this?
Inflammation is inflammation, it doesn’t matter how it’s inflicted.
To a small degree it would lessen the effects if he’s been using it over time. [/quote]
Good, so you agree with me then.
[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
big69penisman wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
Why wouldn’t a high-potency DHA supplement lessen the effects of trauma such as this?
Inflammation is inflammation, it doesn’t matter how it’s inflicted.
To a small degree it would lessen the effects if he’s been using it over time.
Good, so you agree with me then.[/quote]
No, I don’t
[quote]second half of statement made by me:
But not to the degree to where he wouldn’t need to seek medical advice after an accident. [/quote]
Like it was previously said, it takes a long time to build up in the system. One study shows that it took mice 4-9 months to show a difference. You can multiply that by 3-5 for humans. You’re product just came out on the first. So assuming that it was miracled to this guy’s door step that day (cause you know, shipping and ordering take time as well) it’s only been three weeks. So no, I don’t think flameout is the reason he didn’t have to go to a hospital. I think him making up this story is. Or just overexaggerating it is. oh, and here’s that study:
Anti-inflammatory action of dietary fish oil and calorie restriction.
Kim YJ, Kim HJ, No JK, Chung HY, Fernandes G.
Department of Cosmetology, Pusan Women’s College, Pusanjin-Gu, Pusan, Korea.
Inflammation, inflammatory mediators, cyclooxygenase (COX)-2, and inducible nitric oxide (iNOS) are all influenced by age-related oxidative status. To investigate the effect of dietary fish oil (FO) and calorie restriction (CR) on oxidative stress-related inflammatory status with age, (NZB/NZW) F1 (B/W) mice were fed for 4 and 9 months either ad libitum or calorie-restricted (60% of ad libitum intake) diets containing 5% corn oil or 5% FO. We measured several key oxidative and inflammatory markers: TBARS, xanthine oxidase (XOD)-derived superoxide generation, and PGE(2) and LTB(4) production. Expressions of renal COX-1, COX-2, and iNOS mRNA were analyzed by RT-PCR; additionally, COX-2 protein was estimated by Western-blot method. Results show that FO intake and CR individually and together suppressed age-related increases in lipid peroxidation and superoxide generation. The inhibitory effects of dietary FO and CR were also found for iNOS expression, COX-2 expression, which subsequently led to the suppression of PGE(2) and LTB(4). We conclude that the beneficial effects of FO feeding and CR are synergistic in ameliorating the age-related nephritis of B/W mice by suppressing COX-2 and iNOS, reactive species generation, and pro-inflammatory mediators.
PMID: 16438990 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
Flameout was one part of his general conditioning. He was overall better prepared for the trauma of this type of accident. He was able to sustain less of an injury and recover faster.
I have seen DMSO work wonders with puncture wounds. Flame away if you must. Remember–I was there and you were not.
wow - you can tell which side of the religious battle he falls on - he thanked Flameout instead of Jebus!
[quote]big69penisman wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
big69penisman wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
Why wouldn’t a high-potency DHA supplement lessen the effects of trauma such as this?
Inflammation is inflammation, it doesn’t matter how it’s inflicted.
To a small degree it would lessen the effects if he’s been using it over time.
Good, so you agree with me then.
No, I don’t
second half of statement made by me:
But not to the degree to where he wouldn’t need to seek medical advice after an accident.
Like it was previously said, it takes a long time to build up in the system. One study shows that it took mice 4-9 months to show a difference. You can multiply that by 3-5 for humans. You’re product just came out on the first. So assuming that it was miracled to this guy’s door step that day (cause you know, shipping and ordering take time as well) it’s only been three weeks. So no, I don’t think flameout is the reason he didn’t have to go to a hospital. I think him making up this story is. Or just overexaggerating it is. oh, and here’s that study:
Anti-inflammatory action of dietary fish oil and calorie restriction.
Kim YJ, Kim HJ, No JK, Chung HY, Fernandes G.
Department of Cosmetology, Pusan Women’s College, Pusanjin-Gu, Pusan, Korea.
Inflammation, inflammatory mediators, cyclooxygenase (COX)-2, and inducible nitric oxide (iNOS) are all influenced by age-related oxidative status. To investigate the effect of dietary fish oil (FO) and calorie restriction (CR) on oxidative stress-related inflammatory status with age, (NZB/NZW) F1 (B/W) mice were fed for 4 and 9 months either ad libitum or calorie-restricted (60% of ad libitum intake) diets containing 5% corn oil or 5% FO. We measured several key oxidative and inflammatory markers: TBARS, xanthine oxidase (XOD)-derived superoxide generation, and PGE(2) and LTB(4) production. Expressions of renal COX-1, COX-2, and iNOS mRNA were analyzed by RT-PCR; additionally, COX-2 protein was estimated by Western-blot method. Results show that FO intake and CR individually and together suppressed age-related increases in lipid peroxidation and superoxide generation. The inhibitory effects of dietary FO and CR were also found for iNOS expression, COX-2 expression, which subsequently led to the suppression of PGE(2) and LTB(4). We conclude that the beneficial effects of FO feeding and CR are synergistic in ameliorating the age-related nephritis of B/W mice by suppressing COX-2 and iNOS, reactive species generation, and pro-inflammatory mediators.
PMID: 16438990 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
[/quote]
You missed the part of his post where he said “And yes, I’d supplemented EPA/DHA long before this accident, and had just finished the first bottle of Flameout the day before.”
No offense, but studies on mice are more suggestive than conclusive…
[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
big69penisman wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
big69penisman wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
Why wouldn’t a high-potency DHA supplement lessen the effects of trauma such as this?
Inflammation is inflammation, it doesn’t matter how it’s inflicted.
To a small degree it would lessen the effects if he’s been using it over time.
Good, so you agree with me then.
No, I don’t
second half of statement made by me:
But not to the degree to where he wouldn’t need to seek medical advice after an accident.
Like it was previously said, it takes a long time to build up in the system. One study shows that it took mice 4-9 months to show a difference. You can multiply that by 3-5 for humans. You’re product just came out on the first. So assuming that it was miracled to this guy’s door step that day (cause you know, shipping and ordering take time as well) it’s only been three weeks. So no, I don’t think flameout is the reason he didn’t have to go to a hospital. I think him making up this story is. Or just overexaggerating it is. oh, and here’s that study:
Anti-inflammatory action of dietary fish oil and calorie restriction.
Kim YJ, Kim HJ, No JK, Chung HY, Fernandes G.
Department of Cosmetology, Pusan Women’s College, Pusanjin-Gu, Pusan, Korea.
Inflammation, inflammatory mediators, cyclooxygenase (COX)-2, and inducible nitric oxide (iNOS) are all influenced by age-related oxidative status. To investigate the effect of dietary fish oil (FO) and calorie restriction (CR) on oxidative stress-related inflammatory status with age, (NZB/NZW) F1 (B/W) mice were fed for 4 and 9 months either ad libitum or calorie-restricted (60% of ad libitum intake) diets containing 5% corn oil or 5% FO. We measured several key oxidative and inflammatory markers: TBARS, xanthine oxidase (XOD)-derived superoxide generation, and PGE(2) and LTB(4) production. Expressions of renal COX-1, COX-2, and iNOS mRNA were analyzed by RT-PCR; additionally, COX-2 protein was estimated by Western-blot method. Results show that FO intake and CR individually and together suppressed age-related increases in lipid peroxidation and superoxide generation. The inhibitory effects of dietary FO and CR were also found for iNOS expression, COX-2 expression, which subsequently led to the suppression of PGE(2) and LTB(4). We conclude that the beneficial effects of FO feeding and CR are synergistic in ameliorating the age-related nephritis of B/W mice by suppressing COX-2 and iNOS, reactive species generation, and pro-inflammatory mediators.
PMID: 16438990 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]
You missed the part of his post where he said “And yes, I’d supplemented EPA/DHA long before this accident, and had just finished the first bottle of Flameout the day before.”[/quote]
No, I didn’t. I was responding to your post that implied that Flameout was responsible for his condition which was before he posted he was using epa/dha long before the accident. And since he was, why is he thanking Flameout if it’s the long term use of another epa/dha supplement?
[quote]vroom wrote:
No offense, but studies on mice are more suggestive than conclusive…[/quote]
None take as I don’t like rat studies either. Here’s one that showed no difference after 8 weeks of use.
Weight reduction, but not a moderate intake of fish oil, lowers concentrations of inflammatory markers and PAI-1 antigen in obese men during the fasting and postprandial state.
Jellema A, Plat J, Mensink RP.
Department of Human Biology, Maastricht University, Maastricht, the Netherlands.
BACKGROUND: In obese subjects, chronic low-grade inflammation contributes to an increased risk of metabolic abnormalities, which are reversed by weight loss. Sustained weight loss, however, is difficult to achieve and more insight into dietary approaches on anti-inflammatory responses in obese subjects is needed. In this respect, fish oil deserves attention.
MATERIAL AND METHODS: Eleven obese men (BMI: 30-35 kg m(-2)) received daily fish oil (1.35 g n-3 fatty acids) or placebo capsules in random order for 6 weeks. Eight subjects continued with a weight reduction study that lasted 8 weeks. Mean weight loss was 9.4 kg. At the end of each experimental period a postprandial study was performed.
RESULTS: Relative to fasting concentrations, interleukin-6 (IL-6) levels increased by 75% 2 h and by 118% 4 h after the meal (P < 0.001), when subjects consumed the control capsules. In contrast, C-reactive protein (C-RP) concentrations decreased slightly by 0.7% and 6.6% (P = 0.046), and those of plasminogen activator inhibitor-1 (PAI-1) antigen by, respectively, 26% and 53% (P < 0.001).
Tumour necrosis factor-alpha (TNF-alpha; P = 0.330) and soluble TNF-receptor concentrations (sTNF-R55 and sTNF-R75; P = 0.451 and P = 0.108, respectively) did not change. Changes relative to fasting concentrations were not significantly affected by either fish oil or weight reduction.
Absolute IL-6, C-RP, sTNF-R55, sTNF-R75, and PAI-1 antigen concentrations, however, were consistently lower after weight reduction, but not after fish oil consumption. CONCLUSION: For slightly obese subjects a moderate intake of fish oil does not have the same favourable effects on markers for a low-grade inflammatory state as weight reduction.
Publication Types:
Clinical Trial
Randomized Controlled Trial
PMID: 15530150 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
[quote]C Dizzle wrote:
newbody wrote:
Why give the guy a hard time?
The other night, I got shot!
I took 6 FLAMEOUT, packed the hole with Metabolic Drive (chocolate), and went to sleep.
When I woke up, not only was the hole healed, but I had also picked up another pound of LBM.
I’ve found that Spike gives me xray vision. Pain in the hole when you’re trying to sleep though, on account of being able to see through your eyelids.
[/quote]
LOL.
Nice one
While I don’t think that it was responsible for the interpretation of rapid recovery the original poster had, there is data which has demonstrated a positive effect within a relatively short period of time:
J Lipid Mediat Cell Signal. 1995 Mar;11(2):119-32.
Modulation of the endogenous leukotriene production by fish oil and vitamin E.
Denzlinger C, Kless T, Sagebiel-Kohler S, Lemmen C, Jacob K, Wilmanns W, Adam O.
Medizinische Klinik III, Klinikum Grosshadern, Ludwig-Maximilians Universitat, Munchen, Germany.
We investigated the effects of fish oil and vitamin E on the endogenous leukotriene production. 10 healthy volunteers were supplemented for 1 week with fish oil (containing 40 mg/kg body weight per day of eicosapentaenoic and docosahexaenoic acid), vitamin E (540 mg, i.e., 800 IU of D-alpha-tocopherol per day), or with both agents. Treatment resulted in a significant increase in the eicosapentaenoate concentration in red blood cell membranes and/or in the vitamin E concentration in serum. In addition, nine obese patients were investigated who were on a hypocaloric diet including 10 mg vitamin E/day for 8 weeks. This diet was associated with a significant decrease in serum vitamin E concentration. The urinary concentration of leukotriene E4 plus N-acetylleukotriene E4 served as a measure for the endogenous leukotriene production. Fish oil reduced leukotriene production in eight of the 10 healthy individuals. After vitamin E supplementation, urinary leukotrienes were significantly reduced in all of the healthy volunteers. The combination of vitamin E plus fish oil had no synergistic effect on leukotriene production in the individuals tested. The decrease in serum vitamin E concentration during the hypocaloric, 10 mg vitamin E/day diet was associated with an increase in urinary leukotrienes in 8 of the 9 obese patients. Urinary prostaglandin metabolites, determined as tetranorprostanedioic acid, increased or decreased in parallel with urinary leukotrienes in most individuals; however, changes were less pronounced than those observed with leukotrienes. We conclude that the endogenous leukotriene production can be reduced effectively by high doses of fish oil or vitamin E, whereas vitamin E depletion is associated with an increase in leukotriene generation.
Biochim Biophys Acta. 1990 Aug 6;1045(3):299-301.
Modification of prostaglandin metabolism in vivo by long-chain omega-3 polyunsaturates.
Ferretti A, Flanagan VP.
Lipid Nutrition Laboratory, Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center, USDA, MD 20705.
In a pilot study conducted with a healthy male volunteer we determined that short-term dietary supplementation with fish oil markedly suppresses the systemic production of prostaglandin E (P = 0.04). This biochemical effect is observable after an incubation period of several days. The potential consequences of a reduced PGE synthetic rate on renal function, immune system and vascular dynamics, must be considered in the overall evaluation of the safety of fish oil supplements.
[quote]Cy Willson wrote:
While I don’t think that it was responsible for the interpretation of rapid recovery the original poster had, there is data which has demonstrated a positive effect within a relatively short period of time:
[/quote]
Thanks, Cy!