Texas Dad DUI Revenge Killing

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If someone did something like that and mangled my wife and/or child in front of me I’d probably beat them to death with my bare hands and not stop smashing their face in until I could no longer lift my arms. [/quote]

Based on the book I’m reading right now, my understanding is:

none of us know how’d we react, but if we did react as you describe it wouldn’t really be a conscious choice. You would just sort of “do it” if that is what your brain told your body to do.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So that is why I’d be more okay with this DD’er getting shot if the father had the gun on him at the time. Once the father had to leave to go get his revolver it sort of diminishes the situation because he’s had time to let his front brain take back over. When in the moment, his cognition has likely shutdown at the horror of watching his young children be slaughtered.
[/quote]

I don’t know man. I’ve never been in a situation like this, but I feel like I could drive half way to Florida before the rage even begins to subside in a situation like this. Honestly, even if he consciously decided to go home, get his gun, and kill this guy, I still don’t have much of a problem with it. I don’t think my 1st or 100th thought, if I were this guy, would be along the lines of, “Well the state will punish him for what he did to my family.”

I’m not even sure what the sentence would be for the driver?

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So that is why I’d be more okay with this DD’er getting shot if the father had the gun on him at the time. Once the father had to leave to go get his revolver it sort of diminishes the situation because he’s had time to let his front brain take back over. When in the moment, his cognition has likely shutdown at the horror of watching his young children be slaughtered.
[/quote]

I don’t know man. I’ve never been in a situation like this, but I feel like I could drive half way to Florida before the rage even begins to subside in a situation like this. [/quote]

Trust me I’m half speculating and talking out of my ass too here, just for sake of discussion.

My biggest assumption is grief would overwhelm you at some point. The adrenaline and anger will have to subside at some point… And I think that point is different for different people. That is why I draw the line of justification at instant reaction v going home to get your pistol.

[quote]Honestly, even if he consciously decided to go home, get his gun, and kill this guy, I still don’t have much of a problem with it. I don’t think my 1st or 100th thought, if I were this guy, would be along the lines of, “Well the state will punish him for what he did to my family.”
[/quote]

I don’t know how I’d react either, but I assume I’d be closer to your comments here, and DD"s comment about beating the man than sitting back hoping a jury gave him 5 years for manslaughter.

Keep in mind, this was a drunk driver. Not some horrible innocent accident where someone was driving in the snow and lost control of their car on some black ice.

Ya I agree that grief will overwhelm at some point, which is individual.

Definitely the correct decision, in my opinion. I say that as someone who does not believe DUI should be considered a crime(Of course, the fact that the deceased was DUI has nothing to do with this case, other than likely being a contributing factor to his running over the kids.).

  1. No firearm was recovered. I think that fact should definitely create reasonable doubt in the mind of anyone tasked with deciding whether or not the accused is guilty, assuming that authorities arrived reasonably soon after the incident.

  2. Even if the accused was found holding the gun, trigger finger still on the trigger, trigger never even reset after the final shot, I would call this a crime of passion. The accused’s punishment would hopefully be extremely light, since there is no evidence that he presents any danger to another, who hasn’t wronged him first.

  3. I PREFER TO SEE A PRIVATE CITIZEN TAKE ACTION, RATHER THAN WAIT FOR THE TAX-FUNDED STATE TO DO SO. I think this is a case for civil court. Let the deceased’s family sue the father, if it feels that is necessary.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

Just curious what you folks would have said if there happened to be strong evidence that he committed the murder, but the jury let him go anyways.[/quote]

It’s tough. Had the father been carrying and shot him, I’d be okay with the jury letting him go. Going home to get the gun… Makes me a bit hesitant.

I’m not a big fan of someone getting the death penalty for driving drunk, but I’m okay with it if that person kills two young boys like he did.

Sometimes street justice is in fact justice. And I can’t say I wouldn’t be tempted to toss a couple at someone that ran over one of my kids driving drunk. [/quote]

What makes this “different” is they were literally 100 feet from their home. That’s like grabbing the gun from the other car.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

Just curious what you folks would have said if there happened to be strong evidence that he committed the murder, but the jury let him go anyways.[/quote]

It’s tough. Had the father been carrying and shot him, I’d be okay with the jury letting him go. Going home to get the gun… Makes me a bit hesitant.

I’m not a big fan of someone getting the death penalty for driving drunk, but I’m okay with it if that person kills two young boys like he did.

Sometimes street justice is in fact justice. And I can’t say I wouldn’t be tempted to toss a couple at someone that ran over one of my kids driving drunk. [/quote]

I dunno. I guess I still look at driving drunk and killing someone as just a really careless decision (that most of the time the consequences are not considered), no different than a negligent workplace accident, or a negligent firearm accident. While I can sympathize with the dad and think that the guy should have gotten a very long sentence, if the dad killed him, he murdered him. [/quote]

No doubt he murdered him.

However I guess the issue with me is was it justified. Lets say I get awoken by a strange sound in the middle of the night, grab my maverick and head towards the noise coming from my daughters room. As I get closer I can tell it is muffled screams and grunting. I kick in the door and some meth head is trying to rape her.

Say I get a clean shot and take it. I’ve murdered him. Do I deserve to go to jail? Or is it justified?

I lean justified.

So that is why I’d be more okay with this DD’er getting shot if the father had the gun on him at the time. Once the father had to leave to go get his revolver it sort of diminishes the situation because he’s had time to let his front brain take back over. When in the moment, his cognition has likely shutdown at the horror of watching his young children be slaughtered.

It is, all the time. The Castle Doctrine is basically this, except you don’t have the ability to stop the driver…
[/quote]

Difference between your scenario (which involves the Castle Doctrine) and this situation, is your hypothetical and the Castle Doctrine are based off of proactive measures to prevent harm, this was a reactive situation after the harm had occurred.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So that is why I’d be more okay with this DD’er getting shot if the father had the gun on him at the time. Once the father had to leave to go get his revolver it sort of diminishes the situation because he’s had time to let his front brain take back over. When in the moment, his cognition has likely shutdown at the horror of watching his young children be slaughtered.
[/quote]

I don’t know man. I’ve never been in a situation like this, but I feel like I could drive half way to Florida before the rage even begins to subside in a situation like this. Honestly, even if he consciously decided to go home, get his gun, and kill this guy, I still don’t have much of a problem with it. I don’t think my 1st or 100th thought, if I were this guy, would be along the lines of, “Well the state will punish him for what he did to my family.”

I’m not even sure what the sentence would be for the driver? [/quote]

I really feel like I would have a hard time leaving the sides of the mangled bodies of my children to go home and get a gun. I think the denial that I might could still save them would have to be there for a while and the realization that I couldn’t would devolve into overwhelming grief before rage occurred. But who really knows in that situation.

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
If someone did something like that and mangled my wife and/or child in front of me I’d probably beat them to death with my bare hands and not stop smashing their face in until I could no longer lift my arms. [/quote]

Based on the book I’m reading right now, my understanding is:

none of us know how’d we react, but if we did react as you describe it wouldn’t really be a conscious choice. You would just sort of “do it” if that is what your brain told your body to do. [/quote]

Spot on.

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

Just curious what you folks would have said if there happened to be strong evidence that he committed the murder, but the jury let him go anyways.[/quote]

It’s tough. Had the father been carrying and shot him, I’d be okay with the jury letting him go. Going home to get the gun… Makes me a bit hesitant.

I’m not a big fan of someone getting the death penalty for driving drunk, but I’m okay with it if that person kills two young boys like he did.

Sometimes street justice is in fact justice. And I can’t say I wouldn’t be tempted to toss a couple at someone that ran over one of my kids driving drunk. [/quote]

What makes this “different” is they were literally 100 feet from their home. That’s like grabbing the gun from the other car. [/quote]

hmmm, shit. I didn’t know that…

I assume Texas doesn’t have the same storage laws that MA does. I’d have to go in my house, get my safe keys, unlock the safe and gather the weapon…

But yeah, only 100’ away does make it different than my initial impression.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

Just curious what you folks would have said if there happened to be strong evidence that he committed the murder, but the jury let him go anyways.[/quote]

It’s tough. Had the father been carrying and shot him, I’d be okay with the jury letting him go. Going home to get the gun… Makes me a bit hesitant.

I’m not a big fan of someone getting the death penalty for driving drunk, but I’m okay with it if that person kills two young boys like he did.

Sometimes street justice is in fact justice. And I can’t say I wouldn’t be tempted to toss a couple at someone that ran over one of my kids driving drunk. [/quote]

I dunno. I guess I still look at driving drunk and killing someone as just a really careless decision (that most of the time the consequences are not considered), no different than a negligent workplace accident, or a negligent firearm accident. While I can sympathize with the dad and think that the guy should have gotten a very long sentence, if the dad killed him, he murdered him. [/quote]

No doubt he murdered him.

However I guess the issue with me is was it justified. Lets say I get awoken by a strange sound in the middle of the night, grab my maverick and head towards the noise coming from my daughters room. As I get closer I can tell it is muffled screams and grunting. I kick in the door and some meth head is trying to rape her.

Say I get a clean shot and take it. I’ve murdered him. Do I deserve to go to jail? Or is it justified?

I lean justified.

So that is why I’d be more okay with this DD’er getting shot if the father had the gun on him at the time. Once the father had to leave to go get his revolver it sort of diminishes the situation because he’s had time to let his front brain take back over. When in the moment, his cognition has likely shutdown at the horror of watching his young children be slaughtered.

It is, all the time. The Castle Doctrine is basically this, except you don’t have the ability to stop the driver…
[/quote]

Difference between your scenario (which involves the Castle Doctrine) and this situation, is your hypothetical and the Castle Doctrine are based off of proactive measures to prevent harm, this was a reactive situation after the harm had occurred. [/quote]

I mena, fair enough, but you best believe I’m getting the shot off if he had just finished raping my daughter.

[quote]jbpick86 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:
So that is why I’d be more okay with this DD’er getting shot if the father had the gun on him at the time. Once the father had to leave to go get his revolver it sort of diminishes the situation because he’s had time to let his front brain take back over. When in the moment, his cognition has likely shutdown at the horror of watching his young children be slaughtered.
[/quote]

I don’t know man. I’ve never been in a situation like this, but I feel like I could drive half way to Florida before the rage even begins to subside in a situation like this. Honestly, even if he consciously decided to go home, get his gun, and kill this guy, I still don’t have much of a problem with it. I don’t think my 1st or 100th thought, if I were this guy, would be along the lines of, “Well the state will punish him for what he did to my family.”

I’m not even sure what the sentence would be for the driver? [/quote]

I really feel like I would have a hard time leaving the sides of the mangled bodies of my children to go home and get a gun. I think the denial that I might could still save them would have to be there for a while and the realization that I couldn’t would devolve into overwhelming grief before rage occurred. But who really knows in that situation.
[/quote]

This goes back to what I was saying. I don’t think the vast majority of people (I assume military, LEO and the rare citizen who trains would be able to make a choice) aren’t going to have a choice in how they react here. Some will do what you say, some will do what DD said and some will do what this dude did, and none of them (other than trained people) will have a choice in the matter. They will just do.

Anyone find it curious the state only called 3 witnesses? Seems like they did it half-assed. They knew they had to charge him, but didn’t care about the verdict.

[Concealed Carry Insurance - Legal Defense for Self Defense - USLawShield]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]WhiteFlash wrote:

[quote]countingbeans wrote:

[quote]magick wrote:

Just curious what you folks would have said if there happened to be strong evidence that he committed the murder, but the jury let him go anyways.[/quote]

It’s tough. Had the father been carrying and shot him, I’d be okay with the jury letting him go. Going home to get the gun… Makes me a bit hesitant.

I’m not a big fan of someone getting the death penalty for driving drunk, but I’m okay with it if that person kills two young boys like he did.

Sometimes street justice is in fact justice. And I can’t say I wouldn’t be tempted to toss a couple at someone that ran over one of my kids driving drunk. [/quote]

What makes this “different” is they were literally 100 feet from their home. That’s like grabbing the gun from the other car. [/quote]

hmmm, shit. I didn’t know that…

I assume Texas doesn’t have the same storage laws that MA does. I’d have to go in my house, get my safe keys, unlock the safe and gather the weapon…

But yeah, only 100’ away does make it different than my initial impression. [/quote]

Keep a .38 loaded and out five feet from my bed.

What if a relative of Banda kills Barajas? Is that justified? If they were in the car with Banda and did it immediately after Barajas committed the act?

I’m not saying I don’t agree with some of the other posters about being comfortable with the outcome, but it is a slippery slope no?

[quote]NickViar wrote:
I say that as someone who does not believe DUI should be considered a crime[/quote]

whut??

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
I say that as someone who does not believe DUI should be considered a crime[/quote]

whut??[/quote]

Gotta be a typo.

[quote]NorCal916 wrote:

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
I say that as someone who does not believe DUI should be considered a crime[/quote]

whut??[/quote]

Gotta be a typo.
[/quote]

I’m not so sure with Nick, but we’ll see.

[quote]usmccds423 wrote:

[quote]NickViar wrote:
I say that as someone who does not believe DUI should be considered a crime[/quote]

whut??[/quote]

I do not think that driving under the influence of either alcohol or drugs should be considered a crime. Of course, I’m always willing to listen to arguments in favor of the criminalization of such action.