[quote]mcl wrote:
Sorry to hear you’ve got the problem, but congrats on having a sane doc and getting a prescription.[/quote]
Thanks, mcl. I am saving the TRT as a last resort. I am definitely going to give the thyroid meds a shot first…and get the E2 checked. I am hopeful that between the two I can get to feeling myself and not have to go down the arduous TRT path.
But, I will do what I have to…
[quote]Caged wrote:
Lots of good advice on this thread. Congrats on finding an open-minded/educated doc. I think no matter how good of a doc you have, the fastest way to health is to be proactive and educate yourself.
Something that I think is worth mentioning is to be patient. It can be a long, sometimes frustrating (and expensive) road getting your levels dialed in, but it is well worth it when you feel like a normal man again.
BTW, if your doc is not open to the idea of adex and hcg, it can be found rather easily online.[/quote]
I’m not sure what my GP would think if I asked him for HCG and Adex. His inclination would be to help, but since it is not his thing, I’m not sure he would feel comfortable doing it. All things considered, I can respect that.
I have been poking around the web, given the possibility that I might have to do my own HCG and Adex. Any recommendations?
[quote]mcl wrote:
KNB wrote:
The waist girth to hip ratio is important, but if your waist girth is over 40 inches and you have apnea (due to being overweight) some docots will say you have metabolic syndrome or ‘syndrome X’ as it is also known. Low testosterone levels coupled with elevated estrogen, on top of insulin resistance, and there you go syndrome x…
I am speaking in generalities of course, but if your waist takes an act of Congress to get below 36", how about acting on your own behalf and cutting out the carbs for three weeks and see what happens.
Syndrome X is usually accompanied by denial as well as actual medical issues. The problem usally becomes exponential as time goes on; more body fat, more estrogen. More estrogen less testosterone. Less testosterone, more body fat.
And so on, and so on.
In my case, I have apnea because my jaw and palate are rather malformed and restrict my airway.
It’s a common misconception that apnea’s a “fat person’s problem”. Being overweight can exacerbate an existing problem, but it doesn’t generally cause it except in extreme cases. It’s a structural problem.
Hell, one of my coworkers has really bad apnea, and he’s maybe 150 soaking wet, and a long-distance cyclist.
As to my carb intake, thanks for the input, but frankly I know my body, and when I say my waist doesn’t get below 36", I mean it doesn’t EVER. Period, full stop, end of story. I’m all for clean eating and macro manipulation, but short of starvation – which I HAVE done, involuntarily, for long periods of time out of necessity (and I DO mean ‘starvation’; I was eating out of dumpsters every second or third day) – my waist will not go below 36".
It’s interesting that you assume it’s my diet without knowing simple things like…oh, I don’t know… my height, for starters. Or my lean body mass. Or any number of other things that would make 36" a reasonable waist size for someone.
If I sound a bit defensive, you’re right; I am. Having a 36" waist isn’t a problem. At a 36" waist, I can see and feel my hipbones. I get tired of people who either think I should have a certain BF %, or a certain BMI, or like to chalk up health problems to “just lose a few pounds” (and those people invariably think less weight == healthier, and never consider that a lot of that weight is lean body mass.
Hell, if I was actually at the recommended weight for my height per the BMI, I’d have 5% bodyfat. I enjoy throwing that back at medical professionals, since almost all of them consider sub-5% BF unhealthy.)
And, since you insist on throwing denial in there, I’ve done the Velocity Diet. End result? A 36" waist. That was cutting out carbs completely for FOUR weeks. I’ve also done a sub-20g/day carb restricted diet for a year. End result? A 36" waist.
So, er…just no. I have no desire to ever be sub-10% bodyfat. I’m perfectly happy around 15%, and moving heavier weights each day in the gym. I long since gave up caring what other people think about how I look. I do what I do (and look how I look) because of how I feel.
[/quote]
I publicly apologize for assuming you were in denial. I know so many guys that are and make the the unbelievable rationalization and justification statements about their “inability” to lose weight and fat when all they have to do is get off their asses and stop eating crap.
I do have a couple of questions though; what is your fasting glucose and what are your hemoglobin A1C test results if you know?
I went on the Metabolic diet and had great results, so my finacee’ went on the M/Diet for a very long time and after losing 20 pounds, stopped losing weight altogether in spite of exercise and strict calorie counting. She finally found another diet that did work, and work great, but I won’t discuss it here.
You say your hip bones are 36", how tall are you as you must be one big dude…?
As I said earlier, I do apologize.
Hey Strick,
PM me if you want “recommendations”.
KNB
[quote]KNB wrote:
mcl wrote:
KNB wrote:
The waist girth to hip ratio is important, but if your waist girth is over 40 inches and you have apnea (due to being overweight) some docots will say you have metabolic syndrome or ‘syndrome X’ as it is also known. Low testosterone levels coupled with elevated estrogen, on top of insulin resistance, and there you go syndrome x…
I am speaking in generalities of course, but if your waist takes an act of Congress to get below 36", how about acting on your own behalf and cutting out the carbs for three weeks and see what happens.
Syndrome X is usually accompanied by denial as well as actual medical issues. The problem usally becomes exponential as time goes on; more body fat, more estrogen. More estrogen less testosterone. Less testosterone, more body fat.
And so on, and so on.
In my case, I have apnea because my jaw and palate are rather malformed and restrict my airway.
It’s a common misconception that apnea’s a “fat person’s problem”. Being overweight can exacerbate an existing problem, but it doesn’t generally cause it except in extreme cases. It’s a structural problem.
Hell, one of my coworkers has really bad apnea, and he’s maybe 150 soaking wet, and a long-distance cyclist.
As to my carb intake, thanks for the input, but frankly I know my body, and when I say my waist doesn’t get below 36", I mean it doesn’t EVER. Period, full stop, end of story. I’m all for clean eating and macro manipulation, but short of starvation – which I HAVE done, involuntarily, for long periods of time out of necessity (and I DO mean ‘starvation’; I was eating out of dumpsters every second or third day) – my waist will not go below 36".
It’s interesting that you assume it’s my diet without knowing simple things like…oh, I don’t know… my height, for starters. Or my lean body mass. Or any number of other things that would make 36" a reasonable waist size for someone.
If I sound a bit defensive, you’re right; I am. Having a 36" waist isn’t a problem. At a 36" waist, I can see and feel my hipbones. I get tired of people who either think I should have a certain BF %, or a certain BMI, or like to chalk up health problems to “just lose a few pounds” (and those people invariably think less weight == healthier, and never consider that a lot of that weight is lean body mass.
Hell, if I was actually at the recommended weight for my height per the BMI, I’d have 5% bodyfat. I enjoy throwing that back at medical professionals, since almost all of them consider sub-5% BF unhealthy.)
And, since you insist on throwing denial in there, I’ve done the Velocity Diet. End result? A 36" waist. That was cutting out carbs completely for FOUR weeks. I’ve also done a sub-20g/day carb restricted diet for a year. End result? A 36" waist.
So, er…just no. I have no desire to ever be sub-10% bodyfat. I’m perfectly happy around 15%, and moving heavier weights each day in the gym. I long since gave up caring what other people think about how I look. I do what I do (and look how I look) because of how I feel.
I publicly apologize for assuming you were in denial. I know so many guys that are and make the the unbelievable rationalization and justification statements about their “inability” to lose weight and fat when all they have to do is get off their asses and stop eating crap.
I do have a couple of questions though; what is your fasting glucose and what are your hemoglobin A1C test results if you know?
I went on the Metabolic diet and had great results, so my finacee’ went on the M/Diet for a very long time and after losing 20 pounds, stopped losing weight altogether in spite of exercise and strict calorie counting. She finally found another diet that did work, and work great, but I won’t discuss it here.
You say your hip bones are 36", how tall are you as you must be one big dude…?
As I said earlier, I do apologize.
[/quote]
No worries, KNB. I was feeling a bit touchy that day, because I’d had to deal with a bunch of people who used the old “apnea? It’s because you’re fat!” thing, without realizing that there are plenty of rail-thin people with apnea because it’s a structural problem. I’m afraid you wound up catching the brunt of my frustration over it.
Fasting glucose: Glucose 77 (70-99) mg/dL (tested December 2008)
Haven’t had my H1C tested, though.
I’m 6’2", and stocky at that. I’m the shortest guy in my family…my brother’s 6’8". I wound up getting most of the bone mass but not so much of the height. I also wound up getting a lot of other fun things, like the most deviated septum the surgeon said he’d ever seen (before correcting it), and a really screwed up palate…my mouth is way too small, particularly my upper palate. I had to have several teeth removed when I was young, and I’ve got a nasty crossbite. Both my sleep doctor and, years earlier, an orthodontist told me what would need to be done to correct it (and coincidentally fix the structural problems that cause my apnea):
The entire procedure would take about two years, and run about $30,000 (and that’s the lowball estimate). It’s debatable whether insurance would even cover it.
But this really is more appropriate for another thread.
Sorry for the hijack, littlestrick!
mcl,
Damn… Okay, so you ARE a big dude, I wonder if you are suffering any insulin resistance problems even though your fasting glucose looks good.
I’m not sure I would endure all the BS you would have to in order to be “normal” after the surgeries. That is quite a list.
I must have been on the rag the day I responded to your post, as I am not usually that harsh unless provoked.
I have a close friend that I love and respect in many ways, yet he lives the “justification and rationalization” lifestyle of too often crap eating, then making it “okay” by saying the A1C, and the fasting glucose ranges were changed three years ago to lower numbers by the medical community, and who is to say what is “normal” anyway.
It doesn’t matter his knees are wiped out and painful from his 100 pounds plus excess weight as he pushes into his 60’s, and he is even taller than you, but he just wants to deny everything… that is everything except simple carbohydrates. Nevermind, end of rant. Sorry my friends.
//End of hijack//
Okay. Got the E2 checked today and it came back 34 PG/ML. Range given was <20-47 PG/ML.
Soooooo, what does that mean? I know that 22 PG/ML is the supposed target, but is a 34 high enough to actually explain the symptoms?
34 is more than enough to make you feel like crap. It isn’t extremely high, but with your rather low T, you are estrogen dominant. I think the $65 investment for liquidex for a years supply would be worth a try. It probably won’t make you feel like superman, but it might to help lift the fog a bit.
[quote]Caged wrote:
34 is more than enough to make you feel like crap. It isn’t extremely high, but with your rather low T, you are estrogen dominant. I think the $65 investment for liquidex for a years supply would be worth a try. It probably won’t make you feel like superman, but it might to help lift the fog a bit.[/quote]
Thanks Caged. Definitely a worthy investment. Is it safe to say that 1 drop a day would be a good starting point?
Hey Strick,
Here is the “accepted” formula for using adex: You are currently at 34 and you want to be at 22. So, 0.64mg’s of liquid adex per week (if you weigh 160 pounds) should do the trick, or at least make you feel better.
19.4 drops per week is where I would start If I were you; 3 drops a day 6 days a week, and two drops one day a week. Because it takes between 12 and 16 days for your serum levels of adex to level off, and unless you are an “over-responder”, you could front load a little to kick start the process.
You might try 5 drops a day for the first three days and then drop back to 3 drops a day and see how you feel.
Once again, this is all based on your weighing 160 pounds, if you weigh more than that the adex dosage needs to be increased slightly to compensate.
[quote]mcl wrote:
KNB wrote:
mcl wrote:
KNB wrote:
The waist girth to hip ratio is important, but if your waist girth is over 40 inches and you have apnea (due to being overweight) some docots will say you have metabolic syndrome or ‘syndrome X’ as it is also known. Low testosterone levels coupled with elevated estrogen, on top of insulin resistance, and there you go syndrome x…
I am speaking in generalities of course, but if your waist takes an act of Congress to get below 36", how about acting on your own behalf and cutting out the carbs for three weeks and see what happens.
Syndrome X is usually accompanied by denial as well as actual medical issues. The problem usally becomes exponential as time goes on; more body fat, more estrogen. More estrogen less testosterone. Less testosterone, more body fat.
And so on, and so on.
In my case, I have apnea because my jaw and palate are rather malformed and restrict my airway.
It’s a common misconception that apnea’s a “fat person’s problem”. Being overweight can exacerbate an existing problem, but it doesn’t generally cause it except in extreme cases. It’s a structural problem.
Hell, one of my coworkers has really bad apnea, and he’s maybe 150 soaking wet, and a long-distance cyclist.
As to my carb intake, thanks for the input, but frankly I know my body, and when I say my waist doesn’t get below 36", I mean it doesn’t EVER. Period, full stop, end of story. I’m all for clean eating and macro manipulation, but short of starvation – which I HAVE done, involuntarily, for long periods of time out of necessity (and I DO mean ‘starvation’; I was eating out of dumpsters every second or third day) – my waist will not go below 36".
It’s interesting that you assume it’s my diet without knowing simple things like…oh, I don’t know… my height, for starters. Or my lean body mass. Or any number of other things that would make 36" a reasonable waist size for someone.
If I sound a bit defensive, you’re right; I am. Having a 36" waist isn’t a problem. At a 36" waist, I can see and feel my hipbones. I get tired of people who either think I should have a certain BF %, or a certain BMI, or like to chalk up health problems to “just lose a few pounds” (and those people invariably think less weight == healthier, and never consider that a lot of that weight is lean body mass.
Hell, if I was actually at the recommended weight for my height per the BMI, I’d have 5% bodyfat. I enjoy throwing that back at medical professionals, since almost all of them consider sub-5% BF unhealthy.)
And, since you insist on throwing denial in there, I’ve done the Velocity Diet. End result? A 36" waist. That was cutting out carbs completely for FOUR weeks. I’ve also done a sub-20g/day carb restricted diet for a year. End result? A 36" waist.
So, er…just no. I have no desire to ever be sub-10% bodyfat. I’m perfectly happy around 15%, and moving heavier weights each day in the gym. I long since gave up caring what other people think about how I look. I do what I do (and look how I look) because of how I feel.
I publicly apologize for assuming you were in denial. I know so many guys that are and make the the unbelievable rationalization and justification statements about their “inability” to lose weight and fat when all they have to do is get off their asses and stop eating crap.
I do have a couple of questions though; what is your fasting glucose and what are your hemoglobin A1C test results if you know?
I went on the Metabolic diet and had great results, so my finacee’ went on the M/Diet for a very long time and after losing 20 pounds, stopped losing weight altogether in spite of exercise and strict calorie counting. She finally found another diet that did work, and work great, but I won’t discuss it here.
You say your hip bones are 36", how tall are you as you must be one big dude…?
As I said earlier, I do apologize.
No worries, KNB. I was feeling a bit touchy that day, because I’d had to deal with a bunch of people who used the old “apnea? It’s because you’re fat!” thing, without realizing that there are plenty of rail-thin people with apnea because it’s a structural problem. I’m afraid you wound up catching the brunt of my frustration over it.
Fasting glucose: Glucose 77 (70-99) mg/dL (tested December 2008)
Haven’t had my H1C tested, though.
I’m 6’2", and stocky at that. I’m the shortest guy in my family…my brother’s 6’8". I wound up getting most of the bone mass but not so much of the height. I also wound up getting a lot of other fun things, like the most deviated septum the surgeon said he’d ever seen (before correcting it), and a really screwed up palate…my mouth is way too small, particularly my upper palate. I had to have several teeth removed when I was young, and I’ve got a nasty crossbite. Both my sleep doctor and, years earlier, an orthodontist told me what would need to be done to correct it (and coincidentally fix the structural problems that cause my apnea):
The entire procedure would take about two years, and run about $30,000 (and that’s the lowball estimate). It’s debatable whether insurance would even cover it.
But this really is more appropriate for another thread.
Sorry for the hijack, littlestrick!
[/quote]
Probably good for another thread like you said but I have ran into the apnea because your fat thing as well.
[quote]KNB wrote:
Hey Strick,
Here is the “accepted” formula for using adex: You are currently at 34 and you want to be at 22. So, 0.64mg’s of liquid adex per week (if you weigh 160 pounds) should do the trick, or at least make you feel better.
19.4 drops per week is where I would start If I were you; 3 drops a day 6 days a week, and two drops one day a week. Because it takes between 12 and 16 days for your serum levels of adex to level off, and unless you are an “over-responder”, you could front load a little to kick start the process.
You might try 5 drops a day for the first three days and then drop back to 3 drops a day and see how you feel.
Once again, this is all based on your weighing 160 pounds, if you weigh more than that the adex dosage needs to be increased slightly to compensate.[/quote]
Thanks KNB. I pm’d you with some info and questions.
Just ordered the LiquiDex. I’ve got my fingers crossed.