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Testosterone Propionate @ 50mg/ml?


#1

Bill Roberts mentioned that he found testP at 50mg/ml much less pairful that at 100mg/ml.

Just wondering if anyone else had the same experience?


#2

It is not really necessary to ask for personal experience - due to a lower concentration of drug lower amounts of BA (none is needed IIRC for this concentration) is needed.

If one has 100mg/ml prop.. then adding 1ml of another steroid (a painless one) will achieve a similar result.. reducing any pain at least.

I assume you are making your own as you are asking about a concentration that isn't available from pharmacies.. if so, then be aware that 100mg/ml doesnt necessarily need to hurt.. 2% BA and 15% BB with 50-100% EO will provide painless prop injections.. (even without the EO it is painless in most).


#3

Thanks Brook!

I'm getting the prop from a local UGL that offers both flavors.

I always found that diluting one drug with another less painful (or just sterile oil) did nothing in terms of making it more bearable. I remember that experiment with t-400 & boldenone. The whole thing about heating up the syringe (imo) is useless as well.

That said, i have nothing to lose. I'm trying to think of a fast acting, less painful, worthwhile injectable to go along with prop that would fit into a 2 week cycle

...that isn't TA (source got cracked)


#4

As far as UGL prop goes, yes, in my experience, 50mg/ml prop tends to hurt less than 100mg/ml. However, since I've started brewing my own gear, I have never had a painful batch of prop. In fact, I would be so bold as to say that my prop is absolutely painless. Granted, I did not ever get that much post-injection pain from any UGL AAS, and I may be one of those lucky people who is less predisposed to p-i pain, but there was still a very clear difference (not just in pain, but also in intensity of unwanted sides and happy results) between the UGL stuff and my own homemade stuff.

And, because I do not do anything special, it is my contention that the vast majority of UGL gear is CRAP! It will end up getting the job done, yes, but at a MUCH higher incidence of all of the things you DO NOT want from a cycle. If I were ever suddenly no longer able to brew my own gear, I would probably pay a premium and go with pharm grade gear where ever I could find it.

...strangely, though, I have also heard of pharm grade prop having a crazy mule kick, too, so who knows...


#5

What esters were in your t-400? T-400 from a UGL sounds like it should be painful.

And this:

Tren ace, hands down. Plus some dianabol.


#6

Have you considered NPP? I haven't heard about much pain with that one. I will be able to report about it firsthand in a few weeks when I start mine.


#7

Thanks guys...the t-400 wasn't from a ugl. I think it was denkall. IIRC, it was prop, cyp and undecanoate.

I thought of NPP, but access to it is a question mark. Same goes for tren these days.

You make a good argument for homebrewing, but again I would have to do some digging to find the raw material.


#8

A worthwhile fast acting injectable (that is not TA) could be Drostanolone prop (aka Masteron).
75mg TP + 50mg DP daily would be a decent stack.


#9

OP did you have TA written and I just missed it, or was that edited in there? In any case, yes, masteron prop and test prop is another of my favorite combinations.


#10

My fault. I thought I got the edit in there fast enough.

Masteron, eh? I'm pretty sure I can get it but i ned to read up a little.


#11

By all accounts mast gives lean gains with no aromatization and no sides like tren.


#12

No sides like tren? Come on Dynamo, you have been on this board long enough to know you can't make a generalization like that. Especially one that is simply not true.


#13

It probably depends on how you parse his sentence.

If he means no "sides like tren," as in no night sweats, no noticeable adverse effect on cardio, or whatever things one may blame trenbolone in particular for, it's an entirely reasonable characterization. Who has complained of for example night sweats, poor aerobic performance, or excessively increased irritability from Masteron?


#14

Masteron is a strong DHT based androgen, and can produce sides like prostate hypertrophy, aggravate MPB, increase aggression and acne in some.
DH hasn't used Masteron - or Tren, and while i have used both i didn't need to have done so to write what i wrote about Masteron.. i just needed to understand what a high DHT level can do over time.

Brook


#15

It's true, it's not what you say, but how you say it. I took it to mean, Masteron does not produce side effects, but trenbolone does.

I experience a good deal of aggression from either compounds, which in my opinion is what leads to irritability. Nothing has lead me to a greater degree of irritability than oxandrolone. Masteron is not-so-kind to my hairline, where as with trenbolone I experience no noticeable hair loss. I am insomniac while using either compounds. I experience no night sweats with either compounds. I do not do much of any aerobic work, as it is not something I enjoy, so I am a poor judge of those claimed side effects. Masteron seems to make my muscles very tight at higher doses, and can lead to issues for me if I do not keep up on soft tissue work, as I have issues with overly tight muscles in some areas already. My sex drive on either compounds is off the charts.

So, for me Masteron and trenbolone are very comparable. To clarify, the dosages I am speaking of are; as high as 700mg/week with Masteron and as high as 800mg/week with trenbolone. The trenbolone being from pellets, I have no experience with UG trenbolone.


#16

This muscle tightness: was this in the presence of aromatizing steroids, without excessive aromatase inhibitor, and so definitely was not caused by low estrogen?

I've never used Masteron at high dose myself, only low.

I was assuming that DH most likely did not mean a ridiculous statement if there was an alternate possible meaning, saying that some things trenbolone some object to for trenbolone may not be issues with Masteron.

As for aggression, btw oxandrolone (150 mg/day for a brief period) also gave me the only really excessive increase in irritability that I've ever had from anything.


#17

That is interesting about var and aggression/irritability (i too totally agree it is a higher aggression that leads to irritability) - as it is supposed to be a very weak androgen, and it is claimed that the androgen level is the reason for aggression increases.

However i get irritable on Nandrolone too.. which is a mild androgen - on a par with Test or any other high androgen.

Do either of you know of another mechanism by which aggression is increased with steroid use? Is it that when low androgens are dosed in high doses, they still cause the androgen level to soar above natural androgen levels, and will of course increase aggression/irritability in some?


#18

There was an in vitro study years ago showing that the effect of some androgen -- I forget which, it was either DHT or testosterone -- on some measurable aspect of nerve cell membrance function was essentially immediate. I forgot the time frame, but it either a matter of a few seconds or perhaps even less than a second.

The authors argued that this could not be via effects mediated by the androgen receptor, as it was too rapid.

Pharmacologically, every single anabolic/androgenic steroids is considered an androgen. There have been popular steriod books that use phrases like "high in androgens" to paint their picture of a given steriod, or to try to classify things as anabolic or androgenic, but this is mistaken.

So far as androgenicity values being assigned to a steroid, this has to with effect on prostate growth when administered to the rat, which we now know has little predictive value with regard to the effects typically called androgenic in bb'ing. Most synthetic steroids showed little "androgenicity" relative to testosterone for any given anabolic effect due to testosterone being potentiated via 5AR in this tissue and these steroids not so; perhaps also because of conversion of testosterone to 5-androstanediol that again is not the case for the synthetics; and perhaps most importantly because of estrogen levels probably being suppressed to below normal with the synthetics but increased to above normal with testosterone in the rat assays.

That is what the "androgenicity" values were really determining.


#19

I had a lower tolerance for nonsense, not really irratibility, on Nand. I just had no interest in putting up with bullshit that I'd normally shrug off. It went away during 4 weeks of concurrent dbol use. It was the first time using Nand and was the first time I've felt that way on any AAS. Test doesn't really change my mood under 750mg and dbol is very good to me so I assume it was the low dose Nandrolone.


#20

Mea culpa. I was alluding to the commonly discussed tren sides that Bill outlined and insomnia. As W.H.B. stated however, masteron can trigger insomnia like tren. My bad.

At least it brought on an interesting discussion about the effects of tren, masteron and anavar.