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Testosterone/Muscle Building Situation


hi everyone,

i am looking to this website/ forum because i am not getting the info i need. i am a very frustrated guy here.

a little about my situation: i have been diagnosed with low testosteone and have been apply androgel daily for about a year.

my goal is to build muscle and to lose fat. currently i weigh 250lbs., am considered obese on the BMI index, and my body fat is 30%. i am a 43 year old male.

i am no slacker. i work out 4-5 days a week. i eat right and i get enough sleep. i am doing the art of strength classes at my gym and i love them and they kick my ass. i have worked with a personal trainer.

now here's the kicker: i am seeing no results at all. really. my weight is the same and my bodyfat has not budged. also after my workouts it's like my body has no "muscle memory." i feel like a big blob.

it is so frustrating because i have invested so much time and energy and money into changing my body and putting in the time for workouts and eating right.

so my question: even though i am taking androgel, should i be looking into HGH and injectible Testosterone? i very much want to change my body and i don't want to give up but it just ain't happening for me.

please please please offer any advice if you have any ideas.



p.s. i have a doctor appointment with a new endocrinologist next week. are there any questions i can/ should ask him?


Care to post a sample of your diet, a typical day will work. Post a few days worth of your training routine if you'd like also.

You should also post this in the "Over 35" forum.


Firstly - don't assume that paying for a trainer means you have that side of things covered. (You may not have - just saying).

There are an abundance of bad trainers out there - these days it quite often manifests itself as an array of complex functional moves and postural strength sessions either (at best) without explaining that the weight lost and calories burnt from such work is minimal OR quite simply the exercise not having specificity.

In my experience of this industry over the years, it is only a minority who are good/great - this is because the qualifications are easily achieved and as they are private sector, the training companies make sure the pass rate is very high. Not only this but in order to be a decent trainer one needs to do a significant amount of continued learning.

I agree with Bonez however, in many of these cases it is HIGHLY likely to be a dietary issue. Many overweight people tend to get to a point where they are simply desperate - and drop to eating a salad and one small meal a day - and end up losing nothing at all due to the effect so called 'starvation diets' have.

ALSO - you fail to mention how long you have been training with this intensity of effort and/or eating to lose weight etc.

And in answer to your question - Injections of Testosterone are likely to help somewhat, yes.


Second that. You should post in the over 35 forum and also post up your diet. In addition, do you know what your current testosterone level (while on the Androgel)is? Do you know what your current estradiol (E2) level is? These should be part of your blood tests, and could both be factors as well.

No offense, but I have a feeling that your diet is not "right" as you put it. However, that is what people who are not close to the situation can tell you more easily than you can sometimes see it.

Just as a side note "muscle memory" is something that occurs after a long, consistent, intense period of training. Not after each workout, or even a few weeks of workouts. Muscle memory is what an out of condition competitive athlete has when getting back into condition following a traumatic injury or something, not a post workout feeling. Just FYI.

You should also check your thyroid hormones in your next blood test.


Three things come to mind-

First, how long have you been taking the gel? You should suggest to your doc to up the dose until you feel energetic, stronger, recover better, start reducing bodyfat and increase lean mass. Testtosterone gel is not a miricle but adding it while on a workout program should show progress on the above items.

second, find out youe estrogen levels. If there high you will not get the same effect out of the gell.

third, get your thyroid checked. We know from your bodyfat level that your thyroid is slow. You have to find out if it is naturally slow or just due to your obese. Maybe talk to the doc about some T3 (cytomel).


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The most important thing is to make sure your body is working properly. So get checked up with your doc, don't try to get more "gear" from your doctor. I think 100mg-150mg test-c injection per week (with some adex for estrogen control, since aromatize activity is likely to be high due to your bodyfat) will be a very nice HRT plan. HGH is very expensive, even at 10 iu per week, it is going to cost at least 200 USD. I would rather invest that in a high level trainer. There are some really good trainers in NY area.


Maybe bloods would be a better step first. OP, you should be aware that androgel is nowhere near as effective a delivery system as injecting is and those who do switch notice immediate improvements - with no (comparative) dose change.

More that the Estrogen will cause (side) effects of it's own rather than stopping the Test from exerting it's own effects as you are saying.

He absolutely should have his levels checked however, but being over weight is not always indicative of hypothyroidism.

So you prescribe T3 because you have diagnosed Hypothyroidism?

Now - there is a chance he may have a slow thyroid, but to be honest your advice is 'bro advice' and the unconsidered and casual suggestion he needs to get T3 in him is BS.



I wasnt prescribing I was giving him suggestions "bro advice" to ask his doctor. As for bloods I am sure he has already had them if he is on the gel. Some very good TRT doctors go by feel of the patient rather than numbers. Yes I agree blood hormone levels should be checked now. But who knows anything at this point he hasnt given us shit for info.

I will step down and am fully aware that I have miniscule knowledge on this compared to others. I am on TRT myself and my second blood test came back within range. The Doc said we can go by feel rather than the numbers.

These were just thoughts to talk to his Doc about and I hope he doesnt think I am perscribing a thing


Maybe i had issue with the way you put it..

However - i just do not agree with suggesting someone increase their TRT dosage and go onto T3 just because they are not getting the results they want in the gym. THATS where the 'bro knowledge' point came in.. as though you recommend the same shit for a bodybuilder to some overweight and middle aged guy on HRT.

Sorry if i come across harsh, TBH i have honestly stopped trying - as even when i am nice as pie people get offended :wink:

See what i mean about the recommending shit though? As you said he told us shit - the best he can do is get bloods (no, ones done months ago when he started TRT are no good enough) and go from there - i agree, he should go to his doc, and after a certain period where you learn how your body works and your doctor trusts you 'going by feel' is great.

BTW - just because your doctor does 'goes by the feel' doesn't mean he is a good doctor, and in fact if he does this too quickly i would suggest he may be the opposite. (i don't know either way, i am just saying).

My wife used to have a doctor she loved. She trusted him with her life - which was a shame as he used to give her enough vicoden to give her a habit that fucked he royally.
In the same trend, many guys on line say they have a great doc when they have a script for 200mg/wk - but IMO if this is not coupled with regular bloods and decent medical advice - they are NOT a good doctor.




Good post IKI


so i just got my blood test results back at the doctor's today...

everything was normal EXCEPT my Testosterone. based on a scale of 0-1000 it was a 64.

a f-ing 64!!!!!!!! NO WONDER WHY I DIDN'T SEE ANY RESULTS!!!!!!!!! MAN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

no wonder i cannot gain muscle. wow.

so the doctor is putting me on the maximum dose of androgel per day and i go back to see her in two weeks to see if it is working.

i am so grateful i now have an answer and a plan.


I don't know what dosage of androgel you are on, but if you have only achieved a level of 64 on your current dose, it is unlikely that 10 grams will take you to where you need to be.

Some people just don't absorb gel too well and need to use injectable T.

Good luck, I am sure that once you get your levels to where they should be...you will be a lot better off.

Don't forget HCG and E2 control...they are important parts of the HRT puzzle.