Hello,i’m 49 years old and started injecting test cyp 200mg about 7 months ago.Dosage started 0.3ml twice a week,eventually building up to 2ml a week,2x1ml.
As of three weeks ago i cut the dose back down to 0.5ml twice a week,as my blood pressure is super high and i feel like crap,and have for some time.
I got some blood tests done last week and the results came today.
I can’t understand how my test levels are so high.
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I am assuming this is not through a doctor, and that the test cyp is 200 mg/mL.
400 mg/wk is too much.
When did you pin your Testosterone in relation to the blood test?
I think the take away here is that you have a really good response to a dose of Testosterone. Your results are good, but I don’t think out of the ordinary. By that I mean, your results are probably in the top couple percentile, but not like the top 0.1 percentile. @tareload has a dose response percentile graph.
If I was you, I would try 50 mg twice a week, and do blood work again in 4 weeks. I think that is probably the top end of what you will need. You might be one of those lucky guys that can take like 50 mg a week and be at the top of the range.
You didn’t feel good because you have cycle level testosterone levels. Some feel great, others normal, some not so great. You aren’t lucky there in not feeling great.
How high is the BP? Are you doing some LISS cardio to keep that in check? It is important to not ignore BP for long term health.
Tareload’s graph:
Edit:
I take it back on the not out of the ordinary. You sure on dosing? Your TT is 4327 ng/dL.
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Hello,you are correct,its not from a doctor.I started it because i had no drive or energy,or interest in doing anything.
I took the dose 24 hrs before the test,i assumed that would show me the true max amount of test in me twice a week?
My BP is about 160/90 range,it fluctuates though.
I do cardio nearly every day,and lift weights twice a week,but very small weights,maybe 60 reps all in and done.
I am certain i am just dosing,i take no other supplements or peds,i never have though except for the test cyp.
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Careful with this. I got on TRT for these reasons. Slight improvement, but I think my actual issues are ADHD and depression. I am working on those things now.
Did you have any blood work before hand showing low T?
I also don’t do it though a doctor. I started with a clinic, but it was too much hassle and cost for me to justify it when I can source my own stuff easily. No judgement from me on that haha.
Yeah, it is going to be about peak, but still higher than I would expect. I would probably be less than half that level, but I have a poor response to Test in regards to dose vs levels (this just means I need to use a bit more than others). Going off of TT, FT makes more sense than dose.
My advice to you is to get that lower. That is pretty high for an average. Lower your dose to start IMO (if you decide to stay on Test). Try to get in 20-30 minute sessions a few times a week where your heart rate is above say 110-120 beats per minute.
If that doesn’t work to get you down, perhaps look to a med. Mine was 145/90ish, and the LISS cardio, and a med got me to 125/78ish. I take an ARB (telmisartan) at half the starting dose (I take 20 mg ED).
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It really helped my mind,cleared my thinking and gave me my focus back,but thats gone out the window again since the New Year.
I will cut it back to 50mg a week,see how it goes.I haven’t had any test for 6 days now.
What are the chances the blood tests are wrong?
My estradiol seems like its a problem too.
About 4 weeks after i started this,i started getting terrible pain in my traps after i pinned,i wonder if that was my body reacting to the test overdose.
Thanks for replying.
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I think that is cutting it a lot all at once. Maybe try 40 mg twice a week, then do bloods. Being a bit high on TT or FT should be okay for a short period.
It happens. I don’t know how to give you any sort of probability though.
Maybe, maybe not, your TT and FT were so high, that E2 is also going to be high (for most guys). Most seem to feel fine with high E2 if TT and FT are also high.
Change one variable at a time is my advice to you. Adding an AI with a dose change (especially going lower) is just too much to evaluate.
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Thank you,ill give it a go.
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Nice job @mnben87 !!
If I get hit by a truck I am glad and hope these graphs help somebody.
A couple of observations and questions:
- Is the TT assay LCMS? Pretty high so LCMS the way to go on something this high. The 150.00 looks fishy so is the assay out of range?
- Gear over the stated concentration?
- This is an extremely high approx. peak level on 100 mg of test ester E3.5D (but it reads as though you tested 2 weeks after the protocol switch so you are still in flux):
Here would be a rough median response estimate:
| mean | 1846 | 1844 |
|---|---|---|
| peak | 2537 | 2083 |
| trough | 1099 | 1492 |
| peak/mean variation | 37% | 13% |
| E7D | E3.5D |
Also here is a handy table to convert between approx peak/mean/trough assuming 4.5 day elimination half life and 8 hr apparent absorption half life:
So let’s say you caught the peak (24-32 hr typically for tmax)
Take your 4327 peak / 1.1 = 3932 ng/dl mean. That is an extraordinary mean TT for 200 mg/week which leads me to think either your gear is overdosed or you have a immunoassay result that may not be accurate and you needed to wait 4 weeks until your PK profile stabilized on new protocol).
Regardless, @mnben87 is right. Drop down to 80 mg/week (twice weekly injections and get your trough right before next injection after 4 weeks) assuming your gear is at the stated concentration.
** and of course everything he said health wise **
GET the BP down.
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Key takeaways:
- If you are testing at TT levels above 1500 ng/dl expected, get an LC/MS-MS assay (always a good choice actually)
- Make sure you gear is dosed correctly (third party testing)
- Use graph above and table to confirm you are even in the vicinity of expected range
Plot shows mean TT level (ng/dl) vs weekly equivalent dose of test ester (mg/week). Test at trough and use table to convert to mean based on your protocol (E7D, E3.5D, etc).
Table: conversion between peak/trough/mean for first order absorption/elimination PK model assuming 4.5 day elimination half life and 8 hr absorption half life
Fig. Mean TT level vs weekly equivalent dose (mg/week) with your protocol tested at trough.
Example: Arnold is taking 200 mg/week of TC (Q3.5D protocol). He measures at trough and tests at 1000 ng/dl. Using table above for Q3.5D protocol, mean/trough = 1.2. Therefore mean TT = 1.2*1000 = 1200 ng/dl. Plot the point on the curve and you see he’s less than 50%tile on his dose response (~25-30% eyeballing).
Since this topic comes up alot I have made a topic and go more into the dose response tool here.
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Because you are taking a lot of testosterone
But is 1ml a week enough to see such high(to me,who knows next to nothing about peds etc) readings?
I assume the above was overkill and you can’t answer the questions.
I wont pretend that i understood most of it,but i appreciate the time you took to respond.
It’s just that my friend is on 5ml a week of the same stuff,and all of the other ped stuff too as he lifts,i’m just wondering what the hell his hormone levels will be.
This is ugl product labeled as 200 mg/ml?
I will ask again… Third party tested? Source?
Your friend takes 1 g per week of this stuff plus extras?
Without all the other stuff, see here for 1 g/week estimates:
Yes,1 gram a week,the gear is made by a company called advar pharma.
Short answer if you cant read the graphs is mean TT of 700 ng/dl per every 100 mg/week of test ester. But could be as low as 400 or as high as 900 ng/dl per 100 mg/week.
Hence 1000 mg/week would be roughly 7000 ng/dl mean TT +/- 2000-3000 ng/dl.
Clearly, yes