I worked my guts out for 2 years and found that whilst I worked harder than most of the men in the gym, I had less muscle to show!! It has been suggested by a male friend that I start looking at T!! Where to start though!!
Web searches dont seem to have given me a lot of information, and most there is directed at men! Women are a totally different kettle of fish - aside from the obvious diffs!! Any info, web links etc to allow me to make an informed decision, assess my options etc would be gratefull recieved
Never presume to know how hard others are pushing themselves in the gym.
Men and women are biologically very different. For instance no matter how hard a male tries, the only thing they are capable of giving birth to is a brown baby boy.
You don’t have to be proportioned like a male bodybuilder to have a kick-ass physique. From what I’ve heard natural female bodybuilders often have the advantage over the juicers, as the juicers end up looking like men with long hair and acrylic nails. I know of one lady who has won state competitions by virtue of this.
I reckon the best thing for you to keep doing is busting your ass – just make sure your program, diet, and sleep are adequate.
[quote]lendafan wrote:
I worked my guts out for 2 years and found that whilst I worked harder than most of the men in the gym, I had less muscle to show!! It has been suggested by a male friend that I start looking at T!! Where to start though!!
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Unless you are a professional competitor or sportswoman, I would be careful. But no matter what your reason, it had better be worth the permanent changes in your body.
Be sure you are willing to live with it.
Here is some info I got from another board written by a female. I hope it helps.
For Females: Keeping Virilization to a Level you can Live With while Using AAS.
If you start to get sides while you are on a cycle, there is no guarantee that the sides will go away once you stop.
By using fast acting esters, you can drop the cycle immediately and maybe, just maybe the sides will go away. 90% of the time they do…but not always.
As soon as you get sides you don’t want to live with, drop the cycle. Maybe the sides will go away, maybe not. Figure out ahead of time what will YOU be willing to live with for the rest of your life and if you get to that point with your sides, don’t go beyond them. Stopping the cycle then may prevent further sides.
That sore throat is not allergies or a cold or you over-training, it is the thickening of your vocal cords and it may not ever go back to the way it was before your cycle
Lets say (hypothetically) you do 3 cycles and you get rid of 98% of your sides at the end of each one. You will still have 6% more masculinization than before you ever started doing them. That’s only 3 cycles…what does 5 years of cycles look like on you?
All the women I know that have used steroids look it somewhere on their body.
Before you decide to use aas figure on this: No matter how small your cycles, you will have probably always have: some hairs to pluck on your upper lip or chin, your clit will be a little larger, that squeaking in your voice is the beginnings of voice changes and it might not go away.
Don’t let anyone tell you that var is safe as far as sides. My voice is very effected by var and my clit is as well.
Women! You will gain weight when you do a cycle. If you can’t handle a few pounds, maybe this stuff is not for you. Water weight combined with muscle growth will make you look bigger & thicker. Your face may get puffy even if you are dieting while on. Most women don’t look very "pretty " while on.
Dieting while on will not give you new muscle growth, just help you hold some muscle you have while you cut. Most cutting can be done with proper diet & exercise and not have the chances of virilization AAS gives.
Not eating enough protein and at regular intervals throughout the day, will be like throwing your gear down the toilet but keeping the potential sides. Proper training & eating up to, during and after your cycle will help you hold the gains you made. Don’t do what so many do and fall off the training & nutritional wagon once your cycles over or you loose it all and the sides stay.
Female doses are very different that what men take. Women seem to react very differently to each compound and have varying degrees of reactions to each compound. Women have to see what works for them. Info on the borads is very scattered and hard to find and it takes a lot of time to find and absorb it all. In all the various posts you find some sad stories, but most of them are kept to PM’s. Find someone with tons of experience to offer you advise on aas for women. She should be in charge of her research, but a lot of women don’t do this.
Basically guy’s…don’t give out advise because you read it on a boards somewhere.
There are a lot of myths and bigotry about women an aas on the boards, but much of it is bassed on some truths. I’d rather see more first hand experiences on the boards, but women using aas has a stigma and most women won’t talk about it.
I’d rather carry that stigma of a steroid user so that I can hand out information I have experienced (or talked to other women about) over the years, so women considering using, or guys wanting to get their girl “on” will know as much as they can.
I’m no guru and I can’t quote fancy scientific terms, I’m just a girl that has had some experiences.
definately not worth the hassle of getting messed up sides for taking a male hormone. Just look at the estrogen related sides men get from aromatization of test. Men get female sides, and worse, loads of fat, general bloat, and acne. Now consider that you are injecting the male hormone straight into your body. Not from conversion, but straight into your body.
[quote]JoeyD20 wrote:
definately not worth the hassle of getting messed up sides for taking a male hormone. Just look at the estrogen related sides men get from aromatization of test. Men get female sides, and worse, loads of fat, general bloat, and acne. Now consider that you are injecting the male hormone straight into your body. Not from conversion, but straight into your body.[/quote]
Sorry, but T and DHT are also female hormones, they just have a lot less then guys do. And there is a range of those hormones in women, some have more some less. Working within those ranges may have benefits that are of value while having subtle effects that may not be significant from a body building point of view. Amounts that would be used or needed by hard core female body builders is another issue.
Hormones in the body don’t know or care that they are injected or not. Many oral steroids are useful for women. Injecting is not the issue.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
cadav wrote:
pushharder:
yes it has a low androgenic power on paper.
But it is commonly associated with a “stronger effects” (dose dependent)
It is used to threat breast cancer so it doesn’t aromatize (but for woman this is not a problem)
It is a DHT derivated so it can cause hair loss and other DHT related problem.
I understand but that would be the case in men too.
If dosages were reasonable and tailored for the particular woman could she not do well on it?
If not, what is Roberts’ rationale for recommending it for women in the article I cited?
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When AR states that something like that is safe for women, he means that it will not kill them. Many drugs first created to treat estrogen sensitive female cancers do have some bad side effects in the doses used in that context. But, the point is to find a smaller dose that does not create unwanted effects while having an anabolic effect, fat loss and an increase libido for a bonus. One does not want to turn off the effects of E and create a drug induced menopause.
As with men, DHT and derivatives can create scalp hair loss in women who have that genetic vulnerability. But women probably can easily avoid “male” levels of such gear while getting significant effects. The big point, is that these things need to be done with great care. With my TRT, my TT is over 1000 and I have body hair I never had before and my beard is much thicker/fuller than before. I don’t consider those changes to be a problem. Guys don’t worry if that happens to them, gals need to consider those thing life threatening to their femininity.
There is another thread on here that goes into some pretty good info for women but here is the basic summary:
Use only short estered gear (orals or injectables that only last a few days) that way if you start getting symptoms like voice, clit, hair changes you can cut the gear and stop the changes before they get worse. If caught early the changes to things like voice and clit are likely not permanent but hair loss or growth isn’t easily reversable.
The best strategy is to start with a very low dose of a single drug and work up slowly over the weeks until symptoms appear, stop for a few days to let excess clear, decrease the dose below that point in the future. You now know what your limit is for that drug.
Stacking can be done where women can take more total gear by adding different compounds without hiting that virulization ceiling (ex max dose of winny is 20mg/d but they can take 15mg/d winny with 15mg var/d without a problem). If stacking do it by running a single compound, finding the ceiling, then adding other compounds and increasing until they find the ceiling with the two together.
The least side effects for women are from the following compounds:
Nandrolone…NPP is a good choice for strength and lean mass gain with little water retention, seems to have least virulization…deca durabolin is a bad choice due to ester length
Winstrol…winny (inj or oral) is frequently used for strength and to help cut up. Seems to work very well for women but will give virulization pretty bad if dose is exceeded
Oxandrolone (Anavar)…similar results to winny but effects different people in different ways. some girls prefer one or the other because of how their body reacts to the different compound. Some get bloating pretty bad on var so they like winny better.
Proviron…works to reduce estrogen, free natural test, and help girls harden up.
Primobolan…very effective lean mass builder but has potential for strong virulization if max dose is exceeded so they need to be very careful. Primo is typically an enanthate ester so it is difficult to use safely. the oral version is not very effective because the cost is very high to get an effective dose.
Overally girls are much better off using a very small dose of gear (the minimal that will give results) and focusing on nutrition/excersize to acheive their goals.
