T Nation

Testosterone First Cycle and Discussion


#1


I am a long time follower of T-Nation, both site and forums, but this is actually my first post as I do not usually comment on stuff.

Well, I will be honest telling my background and my intentions. First thing first, I haven�¢??t reached any type of plateau regarding my physical development. I have been practicing for about 2 years, but I have always been a keen sports guy. This last year and half, training got even more real and I started to be more immersive in my approach regarding my training and nutrition. I am currently studying but training is my passion�¢?�¦ I almost know more about nutrition and training than my area of expertise.

I have to say that I have been reading all there is regarding steroids, but I am quite sceptical as there is no relevant scientific data regarding most of the approaches used by experienced athletes. There are few people one must trust - there is too much information but not sufficiently reasonable as to apply it to ourselves. But what I read around here was always the best information so thank you for sharing knowledge and I hope we all contribute to steroids to be more safe and productive in the future.

Ok, so for the last month I have been doing a report about hormonal reactions that happen in our body, specifically those affected by the synthetic steroids use, and which I�¢??ll share here. As told before, I am no doctor nor I have experience in this area, but actually my girlfriend and most of my friends are doctors so I always have someone to correct what I read along the internet. And yes, they all do not support me for my steroids intentions.

It�¢??s truly difficult to find a medical doctor willing to accept that fact �¢?? and this should be a warning to everybody: steroids will potentially do more harm than good, and all that for the sake of strength and mass gains. But for us, it�¢??s a choice we are willing to bear and we will do our best to be safe.

Another thing that turns things quite difficult is that information regarding steroids is most of the times coded. People use specific terms such as AAS, E3D, EOD and also drugs names such as Adex. Nothing that a search will not solve, but a percentage of us are not English native speakers and we are also not familiarized with the terms.

Excuse me for my long speech but now I will go directly to the main reason for starting the topic. I intend to start my first cycle in 1/2 months from now. As have said, my training is en route and my nutrition is epic. I have developed a personal excel spreadsheet to log my caloric intake with +400 items in its database, mostly Portuguese products that we eat around here. I train 6 in 7 days per week, I eat mostly clean but I have some fall-backs where I eat junk food as an animal. Nonetheless, I am extremely healthy and athletic.

So here is what I have planned a bit for a first cycle. I know there are many topics regarding first-cycles but if the recovery process depends on the person, the cycle should also be planned individually;

Testosterone Cypionate due to its long-acting ester which is best for me, as I�¢??m not willing to inject that often. And it�¢??s from an American pharmaceutical which produces the Testosterone in Portugal, so it is SAFE, which should always be the first priority.

The HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) is quite expensive here so I will mostly draft that from my cycle. Having my testicles shut down for a while isn�¢??t a problem (at all) for me. As long as it is temporary. So for the arguments sake, let�¢??s say I won�¢??t take any of that.

Now, what I consider the most important aspect of a cycle: the recovery. So, for that purpose the conventional non-medical path is to do both and AE (Anti-Estrogen) during the cycle and as a bridge between cycle and off-cycle and a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) as the post-cycle drug. Correct?

Nolvadex being hepatotoxic is a concern but it is preferable to Clomid due to side effects. But I know this is subjective.
Regarding the AE, I still don�¢??t know which will be the best to fully prevent some side effects and not to induce future carcinogenic potencial problems. Should one use Aromisin, Letrozolem or Arimidex? I�¢??m willing to abdicate of some �¢??gains�¢?? just to do the safer approach.

It�¢??s all for now. It�¢??s quite a message and I�¢??m sure we�¢??ll have a nice topic here, hopefully to help people like me and to try to debunk some steroids stuff.

Thank you all!


#2

It’s actually an AI, not an AE. AI stands for aromatase inhibitor. It prevents testosterone from converting to estrogen. It does not do anything to estrogen already in your body. As far as which one to use, it’s just a matter of preference. I like adex, it’s the easiest to dose. Letro can be a bit much. It’s better left for stronger cycles.

Nolvadex is only marginally hepatoxic. Should not be a real concern. It’s certainly not more hepatoxic than steroids, lol.

I have to say, you sure wrote a whole lot here without saying much. This is very, very basic as far as steroids go. And your projected cycle is the absolute most common beginner cycle in existence.

I also think you know less about this stuff than you think you do. Just an opinion, but everything you wrote here indicates that. You’ve got a lot more reading to do. But at least you have a basic comprehension here.

I honestly don’t believe you’re going to be able to help anybody at this point, given how limited your knowledge is. But your enthusiasm is good. Hope you stick around!


#3

Seems kind of short for a long ester cycle doesn’t it? Wouldn’t 10-12 weeks be better?


#4

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Seems kind of short for a long ester cycle doesn’t it? Wouldn’t 10-12 weeks be better?[/quote]
In my original response I was gonna mention that. But honestly, I don’t think it matters much. 8 weeks is fine enough. Most gains happen in the first 6 weeks anyway, right? I’m starting to come around on slightly shorter cycles, assuming we’re not talking about like Deca or EQ. The REALLY long esters obviously need more time.


#5

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Seems kind of short for a long ester cycle doesn’t it? Wouldn’t 10-12 weeks be better?[/quote]
In my original response I was gonna mention that. But honestly, I don’t think it matters much. 8 weeks is fine enough. Most gains happen in the first 6 weeks anyway, right? I’m starting to come around on slightly shorter cycles, assuming we’re not talking about like Deca or EQ. The REALLY long esters obviously need more time.[/quote]

Ah gotcha. I’ll keep this in mind for future cycles. Thanks!


#6

[quote]jpslv wrote:
I am a long time follower of T-Nation, both site and forums, but this is actually my first post as I do not usually comment on stuff.

Well, I will be honest telling my background and my intentions. First thing first, I haven�??�?�¢??t reached any type of plateau regarding my physical development. I have been practicing for about 2 years, but I have always been a keen sports guy. This last year and half, training got even more real and I started to be more immersive in my approach regarding my training and nutrition. I am currently studying but training is my passion�??�?�¢?�??�?�¦ I almost know more about nutrition and training than my area of expertise.[/quote]

I suggest that you spend several more years training naturally before you start using steroids unless you have the genetics to compete in bodybuilding or strength sports and hope to make a career out of it.

What kind of scientific data pertaining to what aspect of all this are you looking for? There isn’t an abundance of it, but sufficent enough to explain many of the methods currently being used.

[quote]There are few people one must trust - there is too much information but not sufficiently reasonable as to apply it to ourselves. But what I read around here was always the best information so thank you for sharing knowledge and I hope we all contribute to steroids to be more safe and productive in the future.

Ok, so for the last month I have been doing a report about hormonal reactions that happen in our body, specifically those affected by the synthetic steroids use, and which I�??�?�¢??ll share here. As told before, I am no doctor nor I have experience in this area, but actually my girlfriend and most of my friends are doctors so I always have someone to correct what I read along the internet. And yes, they all do not support me for my steroids intentions.

It�??�?�¢??s truly difficult to find a medical doctor willing to accept that fact �??�?�¢?? and this should be a warning to everybody: steroids will potentially do more harm than good, and all that for the sake of strength and mass gains. But for us, it�??�?�¢??s a choice we are willing to bear and we will do our best to be safe.[/quote]

This may be true. It depends on genetic responses and individual predisposition for certain ailments where steroids may not be a direct cause, but still a major causative factor. It also depends on what amounts are used. Essentially, we’re talking about risks vs returns.

You can ask about terms here when you find some that are hard to understand.

This is not a good idea unless - see above

[quote]As have said, my training is en route and my nutrition is epic. I have developed a personal excel spreadsheet to log my caloric intake with +400 items in its database, mostly Portuguese products that we eat around here. I train 6 in 7 days per week, I eat mostly clean but I have some fall-backs where I eat junk food as an animal. Nonetheless, I am extremely healthy and athletic.

So here is what I have planned a bit for a first cycle. I know there are many topics regarding first-cycles but if the recovery process depends on the person, the cycle should also be planned individually;

Testosterone Cypionate due to its long-acting ester which is best for me, as I�??�?�¢??m not willing to inject that often. And it�??�?�¢??s from an American pharmaceutical which produces the Testosterone in Portugal, so it is SAFE, which should always be the first priority.[/quote]

The half-life of the cyponiate ester is around 6 days.

[quote]The HCG (Human Chorionic Gonadotropin) is quite expensive here so I will mostly draft that from my cycle. Having my testicles shut down for a while isn�??�?�¢??t a problem (at all) for me. As long as it is temporary. So for the arguments sake, let�??�?�¢??s say I won�??�?�¢??t take any of that.

Now, what I consider the most important aspect of a cycle: the recovery. [/quote]

You may never recover despite taking all necessary precautions.

[quote]So, for that purpose the conventional non-medical path is to do both and AE (Anti-Estrogen) during the cycle and as a bridge between cycle and off-cycle and a SERM (Selective Estrogen Receptor Modulator) as the post-cycle drug. Correct?

Nolvadex being hepatotoxic is a concern but it is preferable to Clomid due to side effects. But I know this is subjective.
Regarding the AE, I still don�??�?�¢??t know which will be the best to fully prevent some side effects and not to induce future carcinogenic potencial problems. Should one use Aromisin, Letrozolem or Arimidex? I�??�?�¢??m willing to abdicate of some �??�?�¢??gains�??�?�¢?? just to do the safer approach.[/quote]

Refer to flip’s post.

What are you intending to debunk? Steroids aren’t healthy. Being over 220lbs at average height isn’t healthy. Competing in a depleted state isn’t healthy.

Are you aware the risk of permanent damage to your hpta - hypothalamic pituiary testicular axis, leading to requiring lifelong hormone replacement therapy? If you aren’t, hopefully you will educate yourself more on this aspect so you make an informed decision, taking into account risks vs returns, to start using.


#7

[quote]flipcollar wrote:

[quote]nooberific wrote:
Seems kind of short for a long ester cycle doesn’t it? Wouldn’t 10-12 weeks be better?[/quote]
In my original response I was gonna mention that. But honestly, I don’t think it matters much. 8 weeks is fine enough. Most gains happen in the first 6 weeks anyway, right? I’m starting to come around on slightly shorter cycles, assuming we’re not talking about like Deca or EQ. The REALLY long esters obviously need more time.[/quote]

yeah, i agree.

test c/cyp have a much faster active life than most people realize anyway…


#8

[quote]jpslv wrote:

I have to say that I have been reading all there is regarding steroids, but I am quite sceptical as there is no relevant scientific data regarding most of the approaches used by experienced athletes.

Thank you all![/quote]

well, there’s a lot of info on the web… to be honest, i was amazed how many studies were done with actual AAS.

here are a couple relevant studies:

http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/281/6/E1172

http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJM199607043350101#t=article