Good tips thanks a lot. I will wet the residues tomorrow after applying. I had assumed that would just further inhibit the absorption in the same way sweating would? I didn’t realize you could actually get it to continue to absorb once it had dried! i tried the washcloth today…there was almost no residue! Are you able to tell when you don’t absorb it well on certain days vs others?
I don’t use the gel anymore but no, I couldn’t tell. I’m not that sensitive to changes anyway so i doubt if I could tell from a deviation in absorption from day to day. I did the gel for 6 yrs though and had bloods twice/yr and they were always consistent.
Just so we’re on the same page, I meant either take a warm shower before applying the gel or if you don’t have time, place a warm washcloth over the area you will be applying the gel to so that the pores can open up. Make sure to totally dry the area before rubbing the gel in and make sure you aren’t still sweaty from the heat. Rub it in really well until you can no longer feel the wetness of the gel. Then dampen your hands slightly to rehydrate the gel that’s left on them and rub that elsewhere on your body. I didn’t mean to rewet the area where you applied the gel.
That may or may not help absorb it better. I probably just have really absorbent skin.
As such, testosterone cypionate and testosterone enanthate are considered to be “functionally interchangeable” as medications.[4] For reference, testosterone enanthate has an elimination half-life of 4.5 days and a mean residence time of 8.5 days and requires frequent administration of approximately once per week.[
There’s Vonko myth one handled.
As for dosing Sustanon Every Other Day, we covered the pointessness of that pretty thoroughly before, and yet you keep saying it. As if you have ever tried it any way other than Every Day or Every Other Day. You also take HCG daily. So basically, whatever you do is the opposite of what should be done. Seriously, how have you been on here this long and are still this out to lunch?
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You would understand what Im saying if you could just take a basic thought about the pharmacodynamics of the relevant medications.
Yes, sustanon should be dosed at least every other day to keep frequent levels.
And saying cypionate and enanthate are same is a complete bulshit. The same way the one of them has measured half life of 7-8 days, the other has 4-5. So its not same AT ALL
They are literally virtually identical, and I have used them interchangeably with zero problem - as have many others. And the idea that Sustanon with it’s ester blend should be microdosed reveals a complete lack of understanding about the product and pharmacology in general. You are the one not giving any thought to things and people are tired of reading it. It’s like you’re retarded.
Dude, you are repeating again and again the same wrong things. Cypionate and Enanthate have different half lives no matter how you have used them and that is A FACT. I dont care how you use them. Some doctors prescribe one shot every two weeks, so?
And sustanon should be dosed frequently not because it is a blend, but because it contains propionate. The way it was designed doesnt work in most people. Most progressive TRT doctors hate and mock sustanon because of that. There are enough people around me that have used it every way possible. Sustanon is the only ester sold in the pharmacies of my country.
Minor niggles over a couple of years, they’re not bad though. Difference between CJA and BMH is CJA is a clinic owned and run by a Dr and BMH is a clinic run by an individual who hires on Drs (that’s my understanding).
CJA is cheaper overall (marginally) you don’t pay for Drs consults (well indirectly of course) but you pay a month subscription which covers meds and consults only additional cost is tests.
Both seem reasonable choices to me.
To give my personal experience of Sust to the above discussion. I used it on an every 5 day injection schedule, and felt good, 125ml e5d kept me top end of normal at trough.
I also injected 250ml and left it 14 days and noticed no difference. I can’t really see doing EOD or ED making much of a difference, but that’s just my experience and I’ve no interest in getting into the debate about it.
Yes, they have very slightly different half lives, but Enanthate actually has the longer half life not Cypionate, by about half a day. So effectively a non-existant difference for practical purposes.
Sustanon should absolutely not be dosed frequently specifically because it is a blend. Splitting up the dose results in negligible amounts (To the point of being useless) of the shorter esters. Specifically the test prop would be getting dosed in the range of 1-3 mg a day. That renders it a waste of the test prop. If you were taking test prop you would be dosing it frequently, because it’s the only ester in play and has a short half life. Seriously dude, learn something before you give advice.
I think that using it as one shot every 10 days to two weeksis probably the ideal use of the blend for TRT purposes. I like it, and would probably use it but the cypionate and enanthate are 1/3 the price for me so it’s hard to justify it from my point of view.
Dude, Im more and more astonished by the absurd things you are writing.
Dont tell me to learn things while giving absurd advice. Giving sustanon every ten days? Good luck with that shitty protocol. You are on the level of the average endo regarding TRT with that.
And can you show me your source that enanthate has longer half life than cypionate? The jokes today are too much for me…
It’s literally designed to be used as a TRT drug that gets injected every 2 to 3 weeks. It works best injected every 10 days to two weeks. You wouldn’t know because you decided that TRT only works with ED ijections so that’s how you started and stayed, evidence not withstanding.
Wikipedia:
Testosterone enanthate has an elimination half-life of 4.5 days and a mean residence time of 8.5 days when used as a depot intramuscular injection
rxlist.com:
The half-life of testosterone cypionate when injected intramuscularly is approximately eight days.
Wiki simply says they are roughly comparable and doesn’t bother to give a separate half life for cypionate.
Learn to read.
Sustanon was actually originally designed for 2 weekly injections. The fact that it is more efficient if given weekly doesn’t change the original intention. Same as nebido. The idea sounds great but doesn’t work in practice. I wouldn’t recommend Sust as I had the most sides from it over the other esters, but that’s a personal opinion based on personal experience.
As for the cyp vs enth. I’m with @hardartery on this one, I don’t agree with you. Maybe it’s better you tell me what is your idea of the difference in half life between the two and point me to your research showing this?
The difference between Enanthate and Cypionate, as clinically trialed:
TC
TC is available both branded as Depo-Testosterone® (Pharmacia and Upjohn Company, New York, NY, USA) and as a generic (41). Both options are supplied in 100 mg/mL (10 mL) and 200 mg/mL (1 and 10 mL) concentrations, prepared in cottonseed oil. The USA FDA recommended starting dose for male hypogonadism is 50 to 400 mg IM every 2 to 4 weeks (41). The Endocrine Society Clinical Practice Guidelines for testosterone therapy suggest an alternative of either 75 to 100 mg IM weekly or 150 to 200 mg IM every 2 weeks (3).
A PK study evaluated serum levels of testosterone periodically for 14 days after administration of TC 200 mg IM in 11 hypogonadal men (42). The mean Cmax was supratherapeutic (1,112±297 ng/dL) and occurred between days four and five post-injection. After day 5, testosterone levels declined and by day 14 the mean Cavg approached 400 ng/dL. These large fluctuations in serum testosterone over a 2-week period illustrate the less than ideal kinetics of TC IM injections.
The fluctuation in serum testosterone levels can result in mood swings or changes in libido, which is a formulation specific IM adverse effect that should be closely monitored. Other common adverse effects with TC use are local inflammation and pain at the site of injection, also due to IM administration (41). As cottonseed oil is the formulation vehicle, TC use is contraindicated in anyone with a known hypersensitivity to testosterone synthesized from soy.
TE
TE is generically available in 200 mg/mL (5 mL vial) concentration, prepared in sesame oil (43). The recommend starting dose for TE is the same as TC per the USA FDA and Endocrine Society guidelines (3,43). TE associated adverse effects are also driven by its IM administration and mimic those of TC.
The effect of varying doses of TE on serum testosterone was evaluated in 23 males with primary hypogonadism (44). Subjects received IM injections of TE based on one of the following regimens: 100 mg weekly, 200 mg every 2 weeks, 300 mg every 3 weeks, or 400 mg every 4 weeks. Serum testosterone was measured weekly during the initial treatment period of 12 weeks. After receiving the last dose of the treatment period, testosterone levels were then measured more frequently. For the 100 mg group, the average Cmax peaked above 1,200 ng/dL 24 hours after the last dose and declined to slightly above 600 ng/dL after 1 week. In the 200 mg group, the average Cmax was also greater than 1,200 ng/dL and occurred 48 hours after the last dose. The level plateaued around the lower therapeutic limit after 2 weeks. The 300 and 400 mg groups similarly had an average Cmax above 1,200 ng/dL within 36–48 hours. For both groups, levels plateaued below the therapeutic range (300 ng/dL by week 3 for the 300 mg group and week 4 for the 400 mg group). Based on these results, TE dosed at 100 mg once weekly or 200 mg every 2 weeks maintains serum testosterone within therapeutic range by the end of the dosing regimen. As TC and TE have different oil vehicles, they are rated AO by the USA FDA, meaning they are not therapeutically equivalent (45).
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182226/
You said it yourself bro.
Sustanon doesnt work well the way it is designed. It works terrible with most men using it that way. Nebido is even worse but that is another story.
Every guy here in Bulgaria is put on sustanon with this absurd protocol every ten days - two weeks and all I know were doing terrible until I told them to switch daily. Now they feel much better.
You said it yourself. How many guys do you know on sustanon doing poorly on DAIlY or EOD?
Can you explain what half life means?
This is not the point of the debate man. And I don’t speak for “people I know”. I’m not a doctor. I only speak on personal experience. The point is that is what sust was made for, it’s not made for daily or EOD shots. I’m taking issue with your comment to hard artery regarding the cyp vs enth. So please provide your reading showing your argument.
I will give later, although he already posted that enanthate had measured elimination half life, which is exactly half life by the means it is used(the time you have half of the original dose inside your body) of 4.5 days - exactly as I said.
And about sust I dont care for what it is designed, because beyond doubt it is designed poorly. My point is it can be used in a way to work much better
Elimination half life means that the drug is half gone at that life span. 200 mg is only 100mg at 4.5 days, and 50mg at 9 days. The Mean Residence Time is what is typically referenced by people when discussing half-life. When you and your gym bros are talking, the number they will throw around is actually Mean Residence Time, not half life. And the NCBI study shows that you have higher test levels longer on enanthate than sypionate, reflecting a longer half-life.
Your buddies feel better on dailies with Sustanon because that basically eliminates the short ester prop from the equation and they are reacting badly to the prop.