T Nation

Testim Questions

I just started on a prescription of 5g Testim. I’ll do the initial 3 months, then see how my free and total T are before I step up to more or something diffrent. In the meaantime, are there any ways to maximize the effects of Testim?

Any supplemental trans-dermals to enhance how it works?

Should I apply it anywhere in particular, or on the delts and biceps like they recommend?

Would it be better absorbed somewhere else? Maybe underneath the upper arms?

Why do they tell you not to apply it “below the belt”? Does it work BETTER there, or worse?

For the record, I’m 46, 6’5", 276 lbs… haven’t had my BF immersion-measured, but I’d quesstimate it conservatively in the high teens, MAYBE low 20’s tops. I have a 36" waist with a little gut and love handles still (not for long, doing an hour of cardio 6x a week), 52L suit size, 18.75" arms, Total T was 370 (down from 495 nine months ago dammit!), free T was 8.52

Any help will be greatly appreciated!

6’5 176lbs? I think you wrote your height backwards, dude.

Ooops! Typo! My bad! 276…

[quote]Rich5561 wrote:
I just started on a prescription of 5g Testim. I’ll do the initial 3 months, then see how my free and total T are before I step up to more or something diffrent. In the meaantime, are there any ways to maximize the effects of Testim?

Any supplemental trans-dermals to enhance how it works?

Should I apply it anywhere in particular, or on the delts and biceps like they recommend?

Would it be better absorbed somewhere else? Maybe underneath the upper arms?

Why do they tell you not to apply it “below the belt”? Does it work BETTER there, or worse?

For the record, I’m 46, 6’5", 176 lbs… haven’t had my BF immersion-measured, but I’d quesstimate it conservatively in the high teens, MAYBE low 20’s tops. I have a 36" waist with a little gut and love handles still (not for long, doing an hour of cardio 6x a week), 52L suit size, 18.75" arms, Total T was 370 (down from 495 nine months ago dammit!), free T was 8.52

Any help will be greatly appreciated![/quote]

First of all, I want to say that you are luckier than most to have been given that TRT with a total T of 370 at age 46. Most doctors would consider that in normal ranges. Your doctor must be listening to your problematic symptoms and treating those which is good. Is your doctor open to other forms of TRT? Ask ahead and get clear directions on where your doc is going with all this or where he won’t go. That could save you a lot of trouble and aggravation and I can tell you from personal experience as well as many others on this forum. Read all the threads regarding TRT on this forum and you will read of the nightmares that go on as well as other methods of treatment.

I have been on Testim 5g for five months and overall it’s done a great job of bringing my total and free T up. I would like for it to be higher but at 5g you can’t expect too much. It’s much better than what it was. My total T before Testim was 135. Now it’s 549. The down side is that my estradiol went way up as well and ruined everything. Get your doctor to check that and treat it if necessary. Matter of fact, you can expect it to go up so just plan on some form of treatment in the near future.

I have and still am trying all kinds of experiments with this Testim to maximize the benefits of the small dose of 5g.

First, make sure you shower right before you put it on. The pores in your skin are the most open right after showering. Apply the Testim within 3 minutes.

Second, the reason why they say not to apply it to the groin is because it burns/stings badly because of the great amount of alcohol in it. You can get great absorption in the scrotum (one doctor said that absorption through the groin is 10x more effective than in other areas because of the skin there) but it takes more planning ahead to make it work. Squeeze the contents of the tube into a small bowl and make sure it’s spread out enough so it will air out. I have found that it takes almost 2 hours with Testim for the alcohol to dissipate out compared with Androgel only taking around 30 minutes according to those that have done this.

Third, the reason why they say to apply it to the shoulders and upper arms is because most men don’t have a lot of hair there. Be warned, wherever you start applying the Testim you will get new hair growth. That has been my experience. Good application sites to apply would be the upper shoulders, upper arms, inner arms, lower neck, scrotum, inner thigh near the groin and possibly the top of the feet (I am currently experimenting with this one since the skin is thin and there is no hair). Rotate application sites throughout the week so you aren’t applying to the same place everyday.

Fourth, you are going to have to figure out a time of the day when you can apply it when you are not heavily sweating. You can’t shower or get that area wet for many hours after application. I would allow up to 10 hours before I got that area wet. You will still feel the gel coming out of the skin even after 18 hours when you shower. This is the part that was never absorbed. Most of the gel will not be absorbed so you need to accept that only a small part is going to get in there.

You also don’t want to expose your wife or children to that area of your body after application for obvious reasons. Make sure it’s completely dry before you dress and don’t let any of your female members of your family touch that area for at least 2 hours. It will still feel a little sticky.

Fifth, you can try niacin B-3 to create a flush to open the pores of the skin. I can’t tell you if this really works or not. I talked about it to a pharmacist one time, who also happened to be a Testim user, and he laughed at the idea on the theory. Anyway, he may be wrong or not informed of this little trick. You want to take regular niacin - not the “no-flush” kind. Before you get in the shower take the niacin. Within about 20 minutes you will get a flush affect throughout your body. You will have tingling and the skin will turn red especially on your upper body. This is the niacin working as the skin is opening up. In theory this should allow more of the absorption of the testim. I can’t prove it totally but I still do it anyway. Start off with a small dose say around 250mg and work your way up. Soon you will have to increase the amount you take because the body will adapt. I personally take 1000mg twice a day on an empty stomach to get the flush affect to help with Testim absorption. Look, even if it doesn’t work niacin will lower cholesterol and triglycerides so it’s not a bad thing.

Sixth, don’t waste your money on Alpha Male or other T boosters from over-the-counter supplements. Once you begin the TRT your LH will shut down and the only thing that is going to bring it back are HCG injections. You have the real thing now with Testim so that is why I said above to make sure that doc is on board for the long haul and willing to treat you when other issues come up…and they will from my experience on Testim.

Most would say to not bother with Testim and just do injections. There are great debates and discussions on this. You will have to decide if Testim can be worked into your lifestyle and then check whether it’s doing you any good or not. It has worked good for me and did bring me up to normal ranges so most doctors would conclude “mission accomplished” and then stay on that program forever. Look, transdermal gel and all TRT is an aggravation. It takes time, planning, studying and personal research. Your life changes once you begin this because using this stuff becomes a part of your lifestyle and your daily plans will have to include the gel. Depending on the type of job and hours you work you will have to get creative. For most, they apply it in the morning after a shower. For me, I work during the daytime but I have to apply it at night after working and training and this gets trickier on planning to make sure it’s applied, dried and somewhat absorbed so as to not pass it on to my wife in bed. So far it’s working, but I have to plan it out and look at the clock early especially if that day is going to be a scrotum application where I need to leave the gel out for a minimum of two hours. Does this make sense?

Now I’ve only scratched the surface on this issue with Testim. If I left out anything that you are wondering about specifically feel free to PM me.

There are many people on this forum that are more educated on the subject of TRT than I am. The person who has helped me the most personally was KSman. Read all of his posts. In regards to Testim specifically, I can only tell you my personal experiences with this and what I am currently experimenting with now to make it work for me since this is my only method of TRT for the moment.

Good luck with your treatment!

Wow, absolutely awesome reply, RP! Seriously, that was the kind of answers I was looking for! I read your earlier reply about your numbers, pre- and post-Testim, and it gave me hope.

The reasons I sought out TRT were as follows:

  1. Whiskey-dick, or in my case Cabernet-Sauvingon-dick late at night with my GF, after consuming LOTS of red wine. I mean, I’m (almost) 46 (see screen name) not 106 for chrissakes!

  2. I eat like a little girl, work out like an absolute animal, and still had a gut… subsequently I learned about “metabolic syndrome” and low T etc… so I’ve been searching everything I could get my hands on to solve all this. Metabolic syndrome… hmmm… what came first, the chicken or the egg? Do you have low T because of your gut, or do you have a gut because of low T? I don’t care, I just want it FIXED, ya know?

It’s late, I’m about 2 big glasses in, but I’ll re-read or print your reply tomorrow. Thanks again… see ya around!

[quote]Rich5561 wrote:
Wow, absolutely awesome reply, RP! Seriously, that was the kind of answers I was looking for! I read your earlier reply about your numbers, pre- and post-Testim, and it gave me hope.

The reasons I sought out TRT were as follows:

  1. Whiskey-dick, or in my case Cabernet-Sauvingon-dick late at night with my GF, after consuming LOTS of red wine. I mean, I’m (almost) 46 (see screen name) not 106 for chrissakes!

That amount of T may make you feel worse, we have see that many times.:spades:

  1. I eat like a little girl, work out like an absolute animal, and still had a gut… subsequently I learned about “metabolic syndrome” and low T etc… so I’ve been searching everything I could get my hands on to solve all this. Metabolic syndrome… hmmm… what came first, the chicken or the egg? Do you have low T because of your gut, or do you have a gut because of low T? I don’t care, I just want it FIXED, ya know?

It’s late, I’m about 2 big glasses in, but I’ll re-read or print your reply tomorrow. Thanks again… see ya around![/quote]

For syndrome X, you need to take an AI (aromatase inhibitor) to reduce E. And you need blood work for E2 as well.

Read up on HCG. Your testes will shrink without that. Solution is frequence self injections of HCG. You are too young to loose your testes.

Lay off the alchohol, it may set you back progress wise and raise your E.

[quote]KSman wrote: For syndrome X, you need to take an AI (aromatase inhibitor) to reduce E. And you need blood work for E2 as well.

Read up on HCG. Your testes will shrink without that. Solution is frequence self injections of HCG. You are too young to loose your testes.

Lay off the alchohol, it may set you back progress wise and raise your E.[/quote]

Thanks KSman, I’ve admired your knowledge on these matters and your replies are always very informed. I go back for bloodwork in 3 months, is that soon enough? I don’t want to have to mess with AI’s and injections if I can avoid it. I’m not looking for ridiculous gains, just reasonable…

So you think that I need to lay off alcohol completely? Or just cut back significantly? I don’t pound beers all night like I did in my 20’s and 30’s, nor do I drink margaritas or Jack Daniels almost religiously.

Seriously, do you think 1.5 to 2 glasses of red wine with and/or after dinner will make that much difference? I switched to red wine because of all the talk of heart benefits and anti-oxidants, but if that’s driving up my E or driving DOWN my T, then I suppose I’ll have to cut back even more or maybe quit… Wow, sober sex… what a concept! :wink:

Seriously, thanks again for your input.

[quote]KSman wrote:
Rich5561 wrote:
Wow, absolutely awesome reply, RP! Seriously, that was the kind of answers I was looking for! I read your earlier reply about your numbers, pre- and post-Testim, and it gave me hope.

The reasons I sought out TRT were as follows:

  1. Whiskey-dick, or in my case Cabernet-Sauvingon-dick late at night with my GF, after consuming LOTS of red wine. I mean, I’m (almost) 46 (see screen name) not 106 for chrissakes!

That amount of T may make you feel worse, we have see that many times.:spades:

  1. I eat like a little girl, work out like an absolute animal, and still had a gut… subsequently I learned about “metabolic syndrome” and low T etc… so I’ve been searching everything I could get my hands on to solve all this. Metabolic syndrome… hmmm… what came first, the chicken or the egg? Do you have low T because of your gut, or do you have a gut because of low T? I don’t care, I just want it FIXED, ya know?

It’s late, I’m about 2 big glasses in, but I’ll re-read or print your reply tomorrow. Thanks again… see ya around!

For syndrome X, you need to take an AI (aromatase inhibitor) to reduce E. And you need blood work for E2 as well.

Read up on HCG. Your testes will shrink without that. Solution is frequence self injections of HCG. You are too young to loose your testes.

Lay off the alchohol, it may set you back progress wise and raise your E.[/quote]

HCG will increase the likelihood of becoming a proud papa, if that’s what you want. At 46, you’re increasing the odds of birth defects though.

[quote]Rich5561 wrote:
KSman wrote: For syndrome X, you need to take an AI (aromatase inhibitor) to reduce E. And you need blood work for E2 as well.

Read up on HCG. Your testes will shrink without that. Solution is frequent self injections of HCG. You are too young to loose your testes.

Lay off the alcohol, it may set you back progress wise and raise your E.

Thanks KSman, I’ve admired your knowledge on these matters and your replies are always very informed. I go back for bloodwork in 3 months, is that soon enough? I don’t want to have to mess with AI’s and injections if I can avoid it. I’m not looking for ridiculous gains, just reasonable…

So you think that I need to lay off alcohol completely? Or just cut back significantly? I don’t pound beers all night like I did in my 20’s and 30’s, nor do I drink margaritas or Jack Daniels almost religiously.

Seriously, do you think 1.5 to 2 glasses of red wine with and/or after dinner will make that much difference? I switched to red wine because of all the talk of heart benefits and anti-oxidants, but if that’s driving up my E or driving DOWN my T, then I suppose I’ll have to cut back even more or maybe quit… Wow, sober sex… what a concept! :wink:

Seriously, thanks again for your input.

[/quote]

I have found that my gains from TRT, as far as feelings of well being and libido, are sensitive to alcohol. I do notice a set back if I drink more than usual. This is something that you will have to determine yourself. I guess you would have to cut back and see if you feel better then sense a loss after drinking more. Much is also said about alcohol increasing T–>E aromatization. That may be part of the problem. If the alcohol proves to not be a problem for you, then you are more robust than I am.

E levels can make or break your TRT program. After 6 months of TRT, I started 1mg/wk of anastrozole. That provided huge benefits. My E levels were typical mid-high normal range. You E does not need to be above normal range to create all kinds of problems. E can create brain fog, lack of energy, ED, low libido.

AI is a simple oral dose. It can have a huge benefit. Without HCG, your testes will shrink and your scrotum will pull up tight. It is a QOL thing. HCG is injected under the skin (into fat) with an insulin syringe. It is not a problem. Try to be open minded about these things… you may need them.