T Nation

Testim Question for the Gurus


Currently on Testim, 10 mg has been good for me since my blood results we're double digits before, now I'm anywhere from 600-900, want to do PH's but will this screw up my levels of T,or can I just get away with an A.I. such as epistane or something simalar, newby here , knowing that Testim is a reletivly mild test replacement. Thanks


What is a "mild" test replacement? Just that question alone shows how uninformed you are. The word "mild" doesn't even apply here. Testim is a medication and it's doing it's job; you're a mid to high normal level.

And yeah, it is moronic for a hypogondal person to start fucking around with their HPTA, possibly worsening their condition and screwing around with the doc's plan.

What do you mean by get away with an AI? Why use one if you don't even know your estradiol level and might be good to go already. Considering your T values are not supraphysiological, you probably don't have abnormal estradiol values.

By the way, NO ONE here is a guru or a medical doctor in the position to give counseling or prescription through an internet message board.


Don't mess with pro hormones. The damage to your body is not worth it. Be happy you got Testim. I used it for awhile and it worked, girls loved the smell but now on pellets. Much more convenient for me and my numbers stay high 800 by month 2.

No need for AI if you don't need it. I take Resveratrol, DIM and I3C daily and it is working for me as of recent. Just trust the Doc if he's willing and knowledgeable. Don't take unregulated PH's that can cause serious liver issues and who knows what else later on. And if you react badly you may worsen your HPTA. Not a good idea.

If you get shrinkage like I have recently hopefully your Doc knows what to do. Some guys don't and some do. My Doc listened to me and is going to treat it with Clomid so I regain some size & LH,FSH. He also mentioned HCG and an AI if needed. Listen to the Doc and stay away from PH's.


Thanks, not sure I know what Dim or I3C is , I'll look it up , I guess I'll reword
question since I got chastized in the earlier post. Due to the fact that I was low on Test and maybe for a long time, I new that I wasn't all to anabolic, no gains at all, been on Testim a couple yrs, and has inproved. Been lifting with cardio 4 to 5 days a week, 50 yrs old , 5"8 , 200 Lbs. Bench 330 , so I have been at this for awhile. Just a little background. Don't want to do PH. But want to get the best benefits from the testim as possible. Doc has me on 10mg Gel. And yes I don't know to much about the endrocrine system but am learning , and my next bloodwork will be checked for estrogen levels as well.


The best thing that you can do right now is read the stickies. DO NOT POST THERE.

Read the 'protocol for injections' sticky as it does have things that apply to any form of TRT.

I the labwork sticky, look for the basic testing that you need at a minimum. As stated, there is no point in testing LH/FSH when on an effective TRT.

Always come back to this thread for questions and updates. We need all of 'your case' in one spot to do our best to help you. Don't drop your case into the threads of others.

Read the post of others and note how things progress. You will see that the biggest barrier to effective TRT is the ignorance of most doctors. Look for reported symptoms that might be similar to yours and note what the related discussions and labork are.

You might be over training.
Any meds that you take may be taking could be causing negative effects.
Other health issues?
What supplements are you using?

Please post what labwork you have with ranges as well.

Where do you carry fat and how much?


there is no point in testing LH/FSH when on an effective TRT. OK but how do I kmow if my Test isn't being tied up. After reading that exhausting sticky which is excellant, and some of Happydogs sticky on estrogen. Not much is spoken on Gels and AI's. I will ask for an Estrogen test next bloodwork, earlier in a post someone wrote something about Dim an I3C, is this an alternative. I lift at work 20-25 min. lunch , which works out and evenings I do some cardio, but I'm not sure about overtraining. My nutrition is good plenty of fish oil, am on a statin drug for cholesterol. Do take some herbs such as Maca, horny goat weed, tribulas, have low libido thought this might help, but after some reading this might be hurting me. Thanks KSMAN


I really don't touch Tribulus. I take Maca, Resveratrol, Indole 3 Carbinol, DIM from Enzymatic Therapy, Zinc, only 5mg. DHEA, Fish Oil (High Quality) Vit D3 daily.

The addition of DIM daily w I3C has helped me recently with some ED I was having. My wood is back.

Everyone is different you just have to go with how you feel. My first round of pellets after the pain was fantastic. My second round is still fantastic energy, mood and training/recovery. But I had severe ED and shrinkage of genitles. Zero wood. Started the above and much more better. Still need ED meds but I have my blood flow back.

Again everyone is different. I will test my estradiol soon and see where I am at.

And regarding Trib, I never really felt too much with it so I can't give you an answer from experience. I feel it works more on dopamine than anything else.

I also inform my Doc of all I use. He has no problem with it, he felt DHEA was a weak androgen and not much.


OK for now goin to try some dim, zinc, Vitamin D, not sure bout DHEA or IC3 seems from what I read on IC3 that dim is superior, maybe this can wake Mr. Winky up. I have cialis for Valentines. Blood work will be in a couple months estrogen will be looked at.

Should I look at anything else, something was said about research chemical websites for obtaining an AI, can this be done without a script and has this been done by anyone. Im convinced that getting my levels balanced is a priority, when it come to a hormonal issues, when it come to gains in the GYM is there any testimonies, i realize that there is a nutritional element involved here as well. Thanks to all this has caused me to reevaluate my current situation and moving forward.


DHEA is not an androgen. If DHEA is low, that can lead to low T and other hormones, then restoring DHEA would have a relative androgenic/anabolic effect by reducing the deficits. There is a problem from research papers studying DHEA effects in rats etc. As those and most animals do not have any significant serum DHEA levels, you cannot apply any related observations to humans. If DHEA is anabolic in other life forms, that does not translate to humans.

Without labwork you are blind. Suggest that you get that done before IC3 or DIM.

If taking a statin drug, you really have to be taking CoQ10!
What are your current cholesterol numbers?

Do not test for "estrogens", you will get total estrogens... useless. Test estradiol!!!!

Read the protocol for injections sticky. Anastrozole dose needs to match T levels, or from a practical point of view, ones absorbed T dose. With injections, T absorption is never in doubt, always 100%. Because transdermal absorption is low and highly variable, one cannot state what the dose should be based on T doses. Without your labs you really do not know what to do. One could make dose changes based on libido etc, but if there are other factors affecting you health, that might not work. For most, if they have TT=800, they could start with 1.0mg anastrozole per week in EOD dosing. The starting dose can be adjusted relative to TT compared to TT=800. After that, E2 labwork can refine dose as described elsewhere.


Total cholesterol was 170 with a LDL of 98 , CoQ10 is now is now in hand. Have to wait on bloodwork could be a month or two


OK I read here that Saw Palmetto and Zinc are beneficial in aiding AI and prostate health, any truth to this. I,ve been reading my ass off on this subject, seems like one huge puzzle. Very interesting though.


Keep in mind that there are a number of things affecting the prostate:

-T and internal T-->DHT
-estradiol and other estrogens
-lack of ejaculation [seminal fluid goes rancid, creating inflammation and free radicals
-smoking and other toxins

Estrogens are thought to be the biggest problem. Note that BPH and cancer are much higher in men with low T and high E, often as part of metabolic disorder that also includes insulin resistance, elevated glucose and increased inflammatory processes, heart disease [endothelial dysfunction] and high BP. Men who are castrated do not seem to have prostate problems. Men with low T do not have a reduced risk as the effect requires castrate levels of T. This does seem to defeat the notion that restoring T to youthful levels will lead to prostate problems. There is good research on this, but I cannot retain the finer details.

Endothelial dysfunction is associated with unopposed estrogens. With men, estrogens are lower [than females] and T competes with E2. With women, progesterone competes with E2. When a woman is in oral birth control [OBC], progestins replace progesterone and the cardio protection of progesterone is lost. Progestins do not oppose E2 in the endothelial cells that line blood vessels. This why OBC can lead to heart attacks, strokes and thrombosis [blood clots].

DHT is mission critical for virilization, development and maintenance of the sex organs and libido. When BPH is treated with a 5-alpha-reductase inhibitor, DHT levels in the prostate are reduced. Without this androgen, the prostate withers. The net effect is that the prostate becomes smaller and urine flow problems can be reduced. However, that really does not address other fundamental disease processes.

Men need orgasms to clear out seminal fluid. When they have low T and or high E2, their libido is gone and they are otherwise likely to have sexual performance problems. These men are trapped in a situation where reduced sexual function contributes to or causes prostate disease functions.


Alright now we are getting somewhere, my Dr. put up a good fight, but he gave in and I will get my bloodwork, I want to thank you T-Nationers ( KSMAN ) for suppling the Ammo I needed for a proper defense ( Argument ). Thanks Again.