T Nation

Testicular Atrophy

Pharma
#1

So I read this forum daily while at work, searching to learn all I can about steroids in general.

But I’m still having trouble finding the answer to my current issue. Atrophied Testicles!

My cycle was
Wk 1-4 - Test Cyp250 - 150ml E3D
Wk 5-8 - Test Cpy250 - 200ml E3D + 28 Days of Anavar
Wk 9-12 - Test Cyp250 - 200ml E3D + HCG - 1,000iu E3D

2Wks Off

Now I’m starting PCT

4wks

  1. Nolvadex 50mg
  2. Clomid 20mg

I’m in day 5 or so of my PCT and my testicles are still atrophied. My doc is telling me I should stop the PCT and get back on HCG until they are full size again and then start my PCT of Clomid/Nolvadex. Is this a good idea?

If I do start the PCT up again what amount of HCG should I inject daily or/E3D?

Thanks,
Josh

#2

You should have been running the HCG from the beginning, in smaller doses. 250 iu 2-3x per week is all it takes to keep them awake for the duration of your cycle. With the simplicity of this, I’m surprised this is not more common knowledge by this point. Im always shocked to see on other boards that this isn’t even a consideration. I recommend EVERYONE that is at all concerned about recovery to take hcg if they plan on cycling.

That said, finish up your PCT and hope that does the trick. Stopping it now would be premature I believe, but your doctor has a pretty good grasp of things. You could definitely go his method, but it woudl delay your natural recovery. People have done a lot worse cycles than yours and recovered with PCT, so you hopefully will too.

p.s. I don’t know if your PCT plan is good as that is a topic I’m not at all familiar with. I know you have the right compounds but have no idea if the dosages are good. Maybe someone more experienced with that can help you out.

#3

Are you taking 50mg of nolvadex and 20mg of clomid ED for 4 weeks? That will probably work, but it’s not standard and it’s probably not optimal.

Singhbuilder has had luck using larger amounts of hCG (1000iu ED for 3-4 days) with PCT, but it’s not recommended.

#4

did you maybe just get the dosages for the nolva and clomid mixed up?

#5

I have found that everyone WILL recover with a SERM-only PCT for sure. However, it will usually take ALOT longer if your testicles are atrophied. I can speak from experience here, I will never go back to a traditional SERM-only PCT as it just takes too long for it to work.

I believe (without scientific backing) that post-cycle when your testicles are atrophied they will not respond to the LH signals induced by the SERM. This may have something to do with atrophied leydig cells being non-responsive, an area I will look into soon.

Try the regular PCT, if it works then good. If after you have finished it and you are still atrophied then report back.

SB

#6

You’re correct.

50mg Clomid
20mg Nolva

Each morning for 30 days.

I’m on day 5 and haven’t noticed a different in testicle size. I know it’s premature, just reporting it.

Definitely going to introduce HCG the ENTIRE cycle next time. Testicular atrophy sucks.

Also, how long should I wait to get a blood test?

Thanks,
Josh

#7

Whats so bad about shrunkin balls? As long as the hammer works thats all that matters to me anyway.

#8

Lens - spot on.

Jesus, the amount of people who’ve run stupid cycles and gone on to have few problems with conception and stuff leads me to believe the body isnt as fragile as people think. Especially if you dont run stupid cycles, and make an effort to do things correctly when you come off.

#9

yeah but fuck having tiny balls!

Why do you hate your balls so much? Give them the care and love they deserve

#10

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
Why do you hate your balls so much? Give them the care and love they deserve[/quote]
Ah ah. I like my GFs to give them the love they deserve :slight_smile:

I’ve been lucky as I’ve not suffered atrophied balls besides maybe one cycle. Just a tad smaller on cycle - and they’ve always come back. You could wait it out this time, they’ll probably be back to normal soon enough without having to do anything different than what you’re doing now.

I’ve never done HCG as some vets that were active in the past here weren’t fond of it at all, and because I’ve read a few times that long term is detrimental. But, I’m no sure at all on that topic so I’m not saying I’m right by any means, just that it’s worthy of note that some people would never go without it, and some people won’t ever use it on purpose and not just by omission.

#11

How did everything turn out for you on this? I’m in a simialar situation- 2 months after pct my T levels are low and balls still atrophied. I did 5 wks of clomid pct and nothing. However, I do I have decent LH signal

#12

[quote]SwD wrote:

I’ve never done HCG as some vets that were active in the past here weren’t fond of it at all, and because I’ve read a few times that long term is detrimental. [/quote]

I find it rather amusing that guys have no problems taking copious amonuts of various steroids and steroid derivatives, but find something that helps preserve your functioning as a man to be “detrimental”.

Not passing judgment on you, just amused at the “creativity” of that thought process.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with long term, proper dose use of HCG. Even less so when you are on cycles. The benefits far outweigh the negatives (whatever those may be perceived to be).

#13

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

I find it rather amusing that guys have no problems taking copious amonuts of various steroids and steroid derivatives, but find something that helps preserve your functioning as a man to be “detrimental”.

Not passing judgment on you, just amused at the “creativity” of that thought process.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with long term, proper dose use of HCG. Even less so when you are on cycles. The benefits far outweigh the negatives (whatever those may be perceived to be).[/quote]

I think they’re misinterpreting some of the same info I read on HCG prior to my first time. HCG IF overused can be detrimental. The key word being if. Just read the stickies and follow the outlined plan.

#14

[quote]SIM37 wrote:

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:

I find it rather amusing that guys have no problems taking copious amonuts of various steroids and steroid derivatives, but find something that helps preserve your functioning as a man to be “detrimental”.

Not passing judgment on you, just amused at the “creativity” of that thought process.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with long term, proper dose use of HCG. Even less so when you are on cycles. The benefits far outweigh the negatives (whatever those may be perceived to be).[/quote]

I think they’re misinterpreting some of the same info I read on HCG prior to my first time. HCG IF overused can be detrimental. The key word being if. Just read the stickies and follow the outlined plan. [/quote]

Right. And by overused, we are not talking frequency or longevity. We are talking about VOLUME. The insanely idiotic protocols of blasting your balls with 10,000 iu of HCG 3x/week, or whatever bodybuildin lore is leftover from yesteryear actually calls for, has potential to do damage to your balls (desensitize your leydig cells). Even this damage is questionable on whether or not it occurs in a medical setting, and even less clear is whether it is long term or temporary.

The real problem, I suspect, is people just don’t understand the mechanisms of action of the drugs they are putting into their bodies. HCG pretty much just mimics LH at the leydig cells of the testes, resulting in T production and spermagenesis (I misspelled that). So obvioulsy the goal should be to replicate this natural LH production, as much as possible, meaning not to overdrive the testes. If the dosage is kept at reasonable levels (750 iu or less per week, in divided doses) then there is absolutely no harm in long term use (from a testicular output perspective).