T Nation

Test vs Estrogen


#1

I am no biochemist, but the way I understand it is that the body attempts to keep one's test levels in check with estrogen. So as your natural test levels rise or fall, so goes your natural estrogen levels. If this is true, than does taking supplements like Carbolin 19 or Alpha Male make sense, without taking an estrogen inhibitor as well? And for that matter, could one take an estrogen inhibitor and get the same effect with their natural test production?

And for a follow up, does anyone even make a legit est blocker?

Thanks!


#2

Limiting your environmental exposure to Oestrogen's will help and through dietary manipulation. Firstly avoid tap water and Soy. Secondly cruciferous vegetables contain Indole 3 carbinol which is a naturally occuring anti-oestrogen.

There are things to limit oestrogen activity, but oestrogen activity can be specific, for example in gyno. Non-legit methods are things like Nolvadex (Tamoxifen) which is known as a SERM (selective (o)estrogen receptor modulator). This is used in the treatment of breast cancer. All it does, as do most anti-oestorgens is take the place of oestrogen at receptor sites.

Some anti-oestrogens are in fact weak oestrogens. But, Commercially available ones aimed at bodybuilders cite acitivties like suppressing endogenous oestrogen activity and stuff, rather than acting more directly.


#3

Limiting tap water is pretty impractical. Hydration is important. I don't think many of us will be dowing liters of bottled water a day.


#4

I grew up in a city with decent tap water, but then I spent a year living in Adelaide which I think has the worst tap water out of any developed city in the world. I think that I spend about a grand in that 12 months buying bottled water. It was ridiculous.


#5

Bottled water is not that expensive. It depends where its bottled. But generally speaking bottled water has not been effected in way that might do detrimental things to your oestrogen levels.


#6

I definitely believe it.


#7

Regardless, most of us will do fine with tap water without an undully adverse effect on our estrogen levels and maintain proper hyrdation for the gym and playing sports. What's the cheapest bottled water you know? Now figure out how much it costs to drink 12, 8-ounce servings a day, which anyone training hard or any athlete should have at minimum.


#8

Ok, you don't have to drink bottled water, but similarly you don't have to think you need an anti-oestrogen or a test booster. Of which, point being, driking bottled water is cheaper than anti-oestrogens. Maybe not as effective, but worth doing.

I get those barrels which look like a cross between barrels and jugs on a cooler which you sort of rent (I own mine though) and the cost is bugger all compared to going down the shop and buying Evian or some overpriced stuff.


#9

You can get at least a 24 pack of 8oz for less than $4 I think.

Does anyone know what kind of filtration removes oestrogens?


#10

I did this module on Oestorgen and the environment and I found out that organochlorines can mimic oestrogen.

So what are organochlorines ? They are things like DDT,dioxins,PBC and Cfc's.

Most water filters can reduce the amount of organochlorines considerably, so that would let you still drink tapwater. One of the most common pesticides Atrazine, which is high in organochlorines, is removed by filtration. Its kind of useful for those interested in keeping fish too, like myself.


#11

There simply is no need to do so when moderately increasing endogenous testosterone production. You're talking about .3% of that testosterone aromatizing to estradiol. In short, will there be an increase in estrogens when endogenous testosterone production is increased to a moderate degree? Absolutely. Is it in the supraphysiological range? Highly unlikely unless one has some sort of odd Cyp19 polymorphism. You're simply not providing enough substrate for a large increase in estradiol to occur.

Hope that helps.


#12

It does, thanks.

I guess I was just wondering why the market was so focused on only one side of the equation, boosting test, vs minimizing estrogen. It would seem like the ideal would be to combine the two... although I suppose side effects could be an issue, but when has that stopped the supplement industry.


#13

You can get a gallon of spring water at wal-mart for like 50 cents


#14

At that price, you could fill yer bath with it.