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Test/Tren/Win Cycle - Check 'er Out


Test E 500mg weeks 1-12
Tren H/E 200mg weeks 1-10
Winstrol (inject) 50mg/day weeks 9-12
Adex .5mg/day weeks 1-12

Test stasis:

Week 13-18: Test E 100mg per week
Taper off Arimidex or femara fully by week 3

Taper phase:

week 19-24

mg/ week: 80mg / 60mg/ 50mg/ 40mg/ 30 mg/ 20mg.

Nolva week 19-24 20/20/20/20/20/20

The ultimate goal is to really shred and get hard.

Any advice, critiques, complaints, goodlucks, are welcome!


Why do I even try, when this is the result


I hope you don't burn out and stop posting, Bill. RJ was once one of the go to authorities (although he has quite a profound hatred for me) until all the newbs and tards got to him and went into hiding or back to Valhalla.


Thanks! That wasn't the thought. It was just that it would be an endless job explaining again and again and again why such exceedingly long periods of suppression are not the way to go.

Starting PCT in week NINETEEN? Puh-leeze.

I did have an idea of doing a sticky but I didn't know how to do it, and the mod I chose to write (on account of the fact that he had PM'd me quite some time ago) never did reply. Not sure he's still active. So that was that for that idea.


I say Bill Roberts for mod!


I agree, 20 weeks deep is way to long. Its basic textbook knowledge that the OP neglected or doesn't know. Whatever you post, will more likely than not be voted to sticky status for sure. Do it.


Is that how it's done? Just write a regular post and at some point it gets voted on to become a sticky?


Oh yeah, write up the thread and mention that its purpose is to become a sticky and it will snowball from there. We all vote and mods more often than turn it into a sticky.


it says in prisoners post to start pct during taper phase not stasis . . .


Thanks for explaining. Will do.


Don't kill your cycle with the Adex only start it if you start to feel like your getting a set of tits!!! If your scared of a little water weight go break a sweat for 45min a day which you should be doing anyway if your workout is hard enough! More and more I hear of guys talking about the gear they are using to try to "Shred"? To be "Shredded" is only achieved through your Diet and training not the gear your using.


Umm, no. I agree with that mentality to some degree but everybody is different. He might get gyno just by drawing the oil. You just don't know his exact make-up. Guys using gear usually classify cycles into bulkers and cutting cycles, and usually use compounds aimed to achieving the goals of the cycle. The OP should run the AI simply as a safety net. The benefits of the increased estrogen won't be eliminated but it will help keep the levels within the high-normal range.


If someone is a very advanced lifter, really huge, and from experience knows that he's stalled when estrogen has been low normal and prefers to deliberately allow higher estrogen levels, this is one thing. Who am I to argue with his judgment and preference there. Though I really don't know that it is established that exceeeding high normal does anything extra for anabolism, still, someone in the above position is in a good position to decide for himself and a logical position to be looking for every extra edge.

When people advise beginners that they need high estrogen or they'll supposedly ruin their gains, that is another matter. Just bad advice.

Generally speaking these are people confusing weight from bloating as being increased muscular gain.

Maintaining low normal estrogen is fine. If you want it to be midnormal, also fine.


I disagree, and fully believe it is based on the indiviidual. I ran a 9 week TEST E 600 & 75mg TREN ED to bulk and gain strength. End result was a 4.5% drop in Body fat... Which while it wasn't my intention, I was very VERY happy with.
I used Adex from the get go, and didn't do a test taper. I waited till 3 weeks after last inj and introduced Nolva.

I also agree that your cycle is WAY too deep!


Im curious to know how Bill would modify this cycle given the longer esters. Im pretty sure Bill is a proponent of shorter cycles. Does that mean you do not favor and Eth or Cyp ester? Or would you jus shorten the total length of usage? Your opinion is highly valued....


There's nothing wrong with using enanthate or cypionate. Their duration of action is only problematic if aiming for the 2 week window within which LHRH responsiveness isn't suppressed. But most want to do cycles longer than that.

There is nothing unreasonable with say 8 weeks, and enanthate or cypionate are fine for that.

As for those saying Oh but I'd gain more with 12 week cycles, this is -- unless there is something about the specific calendar date in question such as a contest 12 weeks from now -- just short-sighted thinking.

E.g., if having a total of 24 weeks worth of steroids and planning on being "on" a total of 24 weeks in the next year -- which is a quite substantial percentage of time "on" but not unreasonable with proper PCT and not doing tapers -- then if doing 12 week cycles that means the end result, or at-1-year result, is the product of two 12 week cycles.

But if doing 8 week cycles the end result, or at-1-year result, is the product of three 8 week cycles.

Which winds up being more productive. Probably because the earlier weeks of a cycle are more productive than the tail end weeks of long cycles, and because recovery is less of an issue -- generally no issue really -- with cycle length held to this more efficient level.

The folk whining about post-cycle miseries, or how they HAVE to taper or else life is just so bad, are really testifying about how badly planned their cycles were in terms of length and/or compounds used. Though of course they don't see it that way, it seems.


Totally right. i have used both compounds for 8 and 7 weeks respectively and gained perfectly well - no frontload.

BR once advised me that with an effective frontload over a day or 2 (or week) then as short as 4 week cycles could be used, which i intend to do as a modernised version of the old 3 week blisz style cycle pattern - i digress.
BR answered this question but i felt i had some experience that would be of use.



Thanx for the useful experience Brook. If you had to do a 8 week test only cycle 2mr would you still opt for the longer esters? Wouldnt you find your experience to be slightly better on prop? Without a front load of course....