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Test/Tren/Mast Cycle, Please Help!



I have done 4 or 5 prohormone cycles before without proper PCT because at the time I did not know any better. This probably gave me some minor gyno that I didn't even know was there. After prohormones I switched to the real stuff. Here's a little history:

1st Cycle
Time: 3 years ago
Substance: Trenbolone Acetate (Finalpix)
Dose: 1ml/100mg every three days
Length: 5 weeks
Side Effects: NONE (libido was throught the roof!)
Gains: 6 lb. pure muscle, I looked jacked! It was the shortest, sweetest, best cycle to date!
PCT: 2 large bottles Vitirx

2nd Cycle
Time: 2 years ago
Substance: Trenbolone Enanthate, Winstrol (Oral & Injectable)
Dose: 1ml/200mg every 2 - 3 days, 1ml/50mg Winstrol (Rotated between oral and injectable)
Length: 10 weeks
Side Effects: My balls had shrunk about 50%, but my libido was throught the roof!
Gains: Very good, but my ketogenic diet limited me
PCT: Clomid 50mg a day for 30 days, 1 large bottle Vitrix

3rd Cycle
Time: 1 year ago
Substance: Test Prop, Tren Acetate, Dbol
Dose: Done incorrectly. I started with the test prop 100mg EOD. A week later I added the tren acetate 100mg EOD and the dbol at 30mg/day. Each substance was used for about four weeks but they were staggered. The last week I was on tren only (bad idea!)
Length: 6 weeks
Side Effects: Fucked up! I started using Nolva 10 - 20 mg ED on cycle. I developed gyno by week three in my left nipple. I increased the nolva dose to 40mg. It made it worse probably because of the test/tren combo. I couldn't get letro until week 5. I tapered off the nolva and got on the letro. I did the letro for two months to rid the gyno.

I also had no libido starting week 3 of the cycle. First time and it was the worst thing ever! My prostate blew up too, and I went on Flomax for a month. Libido was almost normal in 6 weeks.

Gains: Huge weight gains (20 lb.), but not dry lean muscle that I like.
PCT: Clomid 50mg ED for 30 days (my balls had shrunk about 50%), Letro 2.5mg ED for 2 months, Animal stack (2 bottles), Andactrim gel on my chest for gyno (it was freaking me out; I had a small lump under my left nipple and the areola was enlarged.) Gyno went away and I actually had some sex drive while using the letro. Everything normal by month 3 thank God!

I didn't properly dose the test last cycle and it test now scares the shit out of me due to the side effects. Apparently, I am sensitive to test an dbol (basically any substance that aromatizes.) The test made me extremely aggressive and somewhat crazy while I was on it. So, for my next cycle I decided to use Equipoise because it is considered something "like" a weaker form of test.

4th Cycle
Date: September 2010
Substance: Epistane, Equipoise
Dose: 3 - 4 capsules for 6 weeks Epi and afterward 400mg - 600mg a week Eq
Length: 6 weeks Epi then 12 weeks Eq
Side Effects: The Epi shrunk my small gyno lump; the Eq aggrivated the gyno a little, but I countered it with Arimidex which seemed to work well at .5mg EOD - ED.
Gains: 12 lb., but it didn't appear as quality gains that you would get from Trenbolone. The muscle seemed softer and not as dense as Eq is supposed to provide. My strength went up considerably and I trained harder than I ever have (10 hours a week). My squat was the highest it's ever been. However, I did not get the quality gains I thought I would make (thats why I kept the cycle so long).
PCT: Clomid 300/100/50mg doses for three weeks (my balls shrank about 30%), HCGenerate (1 bottle) and then after that Animal Stack (1 bottle).

Next Cycle: Questions
Date: April 2011
Substance: Test Cypionate, Primobol (Methenolone Enanthate), and Masteron (Dromastanolone Dipropionate)

Dose: 250mg/week test, 400mg/week primo, 100mg/E3D masteron (last 30 days)?
Length: 10 weeks?
Side Effects: I plan to use arimidex .5-1mg ED and will keep letro on hand?
Gains: Mostly dry?
PCT: This one I got from Anthony Roberts:

Week 1 - 3
Nolva: 20mgs/day
HCG: 500iu/day
Aromasin: 20mgs/day
Vitamin E: 1,000iu/day

Week 4
Nolva: 20mgs/day
HCG: none
Aromasin: 20mgs/day
Vitamin E: none

Nolva: 20mgs/day
HCG: none
Aromasin: none
Vitamin E: none

Nolva: 20mgs/day
HCG: none
Aromasin: none
Vitamin E: none

What do you think about the dosing above?

What do you think about the PCT listed above?
Should I use the Prisoner test taper protocol instead?

I am using the above mentioned PCT because I have these substances on hand and I need to use them before they expire.

Since I do not respond well to Nolva, should I substitute Clomid instead? It's a rather low dose of test, should I increase it (due to my history) or do I even need the HCG?

Right now I am on week 2 of the Velocity Diet.

Check my blog here:

Any help on this next cycle would be greatly appreciated. Thank you!


Man, I have the same problem with sensitivity to aromatization so I can really feel your pain. That's a really light cycle and I like it. If I were in your position, personally, I'd keep the Test the same but crank up the Primo and Mast doses for the full 10 Weeks (12 for the primo and 12 for the Mast if it's short-estered). Primo and Mast are two drugs we don't have to worry about with sides like that; actually, there'd be the opposite effect. The Primo and Mast doses are at the low end of the norm but they're definitely not bad if that's what you want. It looks like a pretty good cutter cycle.

I'd also like to add quickly that I think for this cycle, winny would be a superior alternative to Primo.

As for the total length of the cycle, it's really up to you. The latest thing is to do shorter cycles of 6-8 weeks and supposedly the recovery is a lot easier. I think it's the way to go if you plan on running multiple cycles back-to-back, like it seems like you're doing.

The PCT is a bit much, in my opinion, but if you already have the stuff, why not... My last PCT was just 20mg Nolva per day for six weeks (like the posted PCT) with nothing else and my Test levels recovered to above what they were before haha! Also, look into using HCG during the cycle, towards the end of it, rather than in the PCT. There's a lot of info out there supporting that being the superior method (but I have NO experience with HCG just so you know...)


IMO HCG should be a must in any cycle. I wouldn't have it part of my pct though. The use of it is to keep the boys going on cycle so that they dont shrink, or to stimulate them and get them ready for pct. During your cycle you could use 250iu 2x week or a bit more but i think this is the standard dosage though starting 3 weeks into your cycle and having your last shot 3 days before PCt begins. I may be a little off on this but there are many threads that have this info you are looking for. And for your Nolva and clomid situation if clomid works better just use it haha.


Well, the primo at 400mg/week is already dosed at the high end. It's also a long ester so the 10 week cycle is actaully a 12 week technically. The stuff is expensive and I cant afford more than 4 vials. Primo is considered much better than winny in terms of quality muscle gains although winstrol will make you stronger. I have some oral winny. The winny would really be a substitute for the masteron. I have heard that masteron is good at the end of the cycle to harden the muscle. I could throw some winny in whenever, but I was giving my liver a break this cycle (the cycle will be around Spring Break time and I will be drinking on fridays at the least.)

As far as the HCG goes, it usually is used during the cycle to prepare the testes for clomid therapy. 500iu/daily is thought to be the magic number. You can do it throughout the cycle or just the last three weeks of the cycle. The PCT above has it 1 week after the last shot, when the ester is still active. So the first week the HCG is done on cycle and the last two weeks it is off. The only reason this way works off cycle is because it is used with aromasin and nolva which counter any side effects from the HCG such as gyno.


I just found a forum on T-Nation that discusses this exact PCT protocol:


Personally i dont understand why you would use this method this seems to me to be an old method i have never seen or herd of this method before so i think there is a reason it didn't get recognized. Why wouldn't you just use a standard Clomid pct( 150/100/50/50)? hcg is suppressive so why would you take it when you want to restore your natural function? You can taper your AI into pct to make sure gyno will be blocked even if there is estrogen rebound. This worked well for me but thats my opinion.


Basically I have made the decision to use 250iu HCG E3D on-cycle and use the nolva and aromasin for PCT. Sould I do the Nolva 20mg ED for 6 weeks and the Aromasin 20mg ED for 4 weeks? What is the best dosage?


lol, so you're now opting for 250iu HCG E3D instead of the "500iu/day seems to be the magic number" theory? What made you change your mind? Did you actually read something?

You've done 4 previous cycles and you still can't figure out what to do for PCT? What the fuck- seriously.


HCG is NOT a must for any cycle. There are a lot of people on this forum who haven't used it on cycle (myself included) and who won't ever use it. I saw in another thread you said you're new here, are you new to AAS too? Because that's not shit you should be regurgitating especially if you've never used said compound.


Stop linking old ass shit.

A thread on steroids from 5 years ago is like information on building a car from 1950


First off, I have never taken HCG before. I have done much research, and taking 250iu twice a week is a safe and small dose as compared to the old school way of taking 1000iu once weekly.

If you would have read my original post of my past cycles, the only PCT I have done is basically clomid as a stand alone. While on-cycle I prefer A-dex because I used nolva once and still got gyno. Nolva has left a bad taste in my mouth, however...

I wanted to try something different for PCT because experts say Nolva is better at incresing testosterone. Clomid is better at increasing testicular size, but I will not have to worry about that if I take a small dose of HCG on cycle.

Nolva and Aromasin appear to be the best PCT when using harsh compounds such as testosterone or decca which shut you the fuck down. Nolva also interacts favorably with Aromasin unlike Letro and Adex. That being said, my only question what is the best dosing of the aromasin and nolva for PCT?

I've done my research for many years, but there are so many competing theories, nothing is ever set in stone. That is why I created this forum. I'm only asking for people's opinions; the ones that actually offer constructive critism or intelligent suggestions.


I always preferred Clomid to Nolvadex for PCT, and I found going as high as 150mg a day for the first week or ten days worked well, my Clomid was 100% legit and I never had any problems with Acne or any of the common problems people report.

I also tried using both-50mg clomid and 20mg a day nolvadex for PCT which also worked better than using one on its own.

I never tried running HCG on a cycle so I cannot comment on that. But yes, 250 IU every third day is the standard dose to run throughout the cycle, whilst using Adex to prevent gyno.

Good Luck


Nobody has mentioned this, not sure if they just didn't notice or maybe I am wrong, but I thought the dipropionate ester of masteron needs to be pinned EOD.

OP planned to shoot it E3D

Also he mentions cyp per week... OP, you need to make sure that is pinned E3d for stable blood levels.

I don't know anything about primo, so I can't tell you anything about how often to pin it.
If it is enanthate though, I would guess pinning E3d would be best.


Thank you.