So no need for the proviron then guys? TBH I’d rather not use it this cycle then run it for the entire duration of the next cycle to compare the addition of an androgenic oral.
Mephistopheles, I haven’t read before about your suggestion of the ‘tapering’ AI PCT. Makes sense though. However, if I stick with just .25mg adex during the cycle which is a quarter of a tab it becomes difficult to physically break it down further. Maybe someone can chime in with how to do it and keep it somewhat accurate.
So test E for 6 weeks and tren ace and dbol for 8. Sounds kind of long for these two compounds but I’m open to suggestion.
Good point - 8 weeks is long for dbol. Weeks 3-8 (6 weeks) is a better alternative. Also, you may want to start the tren in week2 so as to let the test e start to take effect. Even with a front load the test e will take a while to be felt and to take on its important function of offsetting any tren sides. On the flip side, the tren ace will kick in very quickly.
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
Good point - 8 weeks is long for dbol. Weeks 3-8 (6 weeks) is a better alternative. Also, you may want to start the tren in week2 so as to let the test e start to take effect. Even with a front load the test e will take a while to be felt and to take on its important function of offsetting any tren sides. On the flip side, the tren ace will kick in very quickly.[/quote]
Ummm already started tren and dbol so maybe 5 weeks test E and 7 tren/dbol or am I overly anal about a one week difference-)
Interested in seeing the rebuttal to Brooks query about the cause of ‘tren dick’ as I’ve been reading about Bill R questioning the quality of a lot of tren floating around and the added sides from it. But this is def pharma grade trenbolone acetate.
No. Go 6 weeks as planned on test e. You’ll get good gains that way. Stop the dbol after 6 weeks. That’s plenty and you’re getting into liver issues any more than that. You can continue the tren to right before PCT as planned. I was just concerned that tren could produce some sides prior to the test e kicking in to counter them. Hopefully that will not be an issue.
[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:
Dynamo Hum wrote:
Good point - 8 weeks is long for dbol. Weeks 3-8 (6 weeks) is a better alternative. Also, you may want to start the tren in week2 so as to let the test e start to take effect. Even with a front load the test e will take a while to be felt and to take on its important function of offsetting any tren sides. On the flip side, the tren ace will kick in very quickly.
Ummm already started tren and dbol so maybe 5 weeks test E and 7 tren/dbol or am I overly anal about a one week difference-)
Interested in seeing the rebuttal to Brooks query about the cause of ‘tren dick’ as I’ve been reading about Bill R questioning the quality of a lot of tren floating around and the added sides from it. But this is def pharma grade trenbolone acetate.[/quote]
FWIW, there is no pharma grade trenbolone acetate. It doesn’t exist (unless you have stock that is over a decade old).
t tren lowers estrogen way too low being that it does not convert to estrogen via aromatase.
that and being that it is basicly a progestin along with low estrogen makes it pretty uncomfortable
the fix for this is to take something else,like test or some other thing that will covert to estrogen because too low estrogen is just as dangerous as too high.
this is also why a drug like caber is a good idea to have while taking tren to combat progestin related sides like gyno.
Actually the question was a bit of a spoof… someone was suggesting that test was needed due to the same kind of reasons it may be for deca or another non-DHT cycle. The DHT content.
I personally found ‘real’ Tren to be particularly comfortable… great libido effects, fantastic body composition effects and great strength increases (which i kept as i didnt push them too far) all high androgen level effects.
It had the opposite effect on libido than Nandrolone, and i am convinced that BR is correct in saying that while it has affinity for the progesterone receptor, it has no activity.
It reduces sex drive not due to progestin, prolactin or DHT levels - the androgen level it has is actually a positive benefit for libido - it is only that estrogen, when tren is used alone, falls too low and if an aromatising drug is added, then it becomes perfectly comfortable in that regard.
I suspect that the majority of users here have tren pre-manufactured from UG labs - and bear in mind that its sister drug nandrolone is about $1.2/g and Test is about $1/g while Trenbone is around $8/g. You do the maths!
It sounds to me as though your Trenbolone is fine in quality - i would like you to expand on how exactly you walk into a pharmacy in NZ and buy Tren Ace however! Did you, or was it in Thailand or somewhere?
The ONLY human grade trenbolone product was Parabolan, and that is trenbolone Hex. Trenbolone Ace has only ever been available as a powder (thus UG product) or as Finaplix pellets for cattle.
There will be some online and thai (etc) ‘pharmacies’ that sell Tren Ace as an injectable, but it is still an underground product.
A pharmaceutical product is one that has been approved for legal, medicinal human use and marketplace sales. Not just a powder filtered with a 0.22um filter and sealed in a sterile vial with a pretty label. I can see why you would expect it to be legit though.
Look at British Dragon and British Dispensary et al, for all intents and purposes they were pharmaceutical companies - however they were still UGL’s.
[quote]MaddyD wrote:
t tren lowers estrogen way too low being that it does not convert to estrogen via aromatase.
that and being that it is basicly a progestin along with low estrogen makes it pretty uncomfortable
the fix for this is to take something else,like test or some other thing that will covert to estrogen because too low estrogen is just as dangerous as too high.
this is also why a drug like caber is a good idea to have while taking tren to combat progestin related sides like gyno.[/quote]
Tren is unlikely to have any real activity at the progesterone receptor. It simply is not the same in regards of those type of sides as Nandrolone. In fact, it is nothing like it.
Caber is to control prolactin levels - not progesterone - in fact, lowering progesterone when one has high prolactin and estrogen levels, will likely lead to lactation.
Dangerous is a little harsh of a description for low estrogen - it will however give as many sides as high Estrogen levels will.
Could you expand on what effect progesterone has (with tren being basically a progestin) when estrogen levels are low, that would make the user so uncomfortable?
Seems like you are spouting bro knowledge - ie. stuff you have heard and dont understand.
Dont get me wrong, i do it on occassion, but i expect to be called out too…
[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:
ok I’m no expert on the subject but if you walk into a pharmacy and buy trenbolone acetate is that not ‘pharm’ grade?
Maddy, didn’t think estrogen being too low with this cycle was an issue with two aromatising compounds such as test and dbol.
DH, tren sides haven’t been an issue to date. Just a slight drop in appetite. Sleeping fine, no night sweats etc, libido great.
[/quote]
you can not walk into a pharmacy and buy tren ace, so no it is not pharm grade there is only vet grade tren. unless I am mistaken
I mentioned that the problem with with tren and libido is caused by too low estrogen which no in your cycle is not a problem you have that covered, however there are progestin sides which you need to worry about. which is where obtaining some caber is a good idea
DH, tren sides haven’t been an issue to date. Just a slight drop in appetite. Sleeping fine, no night sweats etc, libido great.
Good to hear. I would still stick to weeks 1-6 dbol. More than 6 weeks is punishing your liver.
[/quote]
Ok so we’ve dropped proviron, we’ve stopped injecting the enanthate and now we’re going to drop dbol for the latter stages of the cycle but keep the tren. Is this not greatly increasing the chances of tren dick?
Don’t get me wrong it won’t be the end of the world and I would recover but just interested in users experiences on the optimal way to run the cycle/minimize this particular side. I’m sure for everyone that says dbol is harsh on the liver there will be one who says its overstated.
Such a fascinating experience designing a cycle. So many pros and cons to consider. Boy without you guys I really do feel sorry for those who have spent <100 hours reading up here.
You are doing just fine. Ideally it would be optimal to have dbol in the mix in your two final weeks. To do that without compromising your liver too much, some of the first 6 weeks should be dbol free.
If you are concerned about tren dick, then you could stop the dbol for two weeks anytime during the first 6 weeks and restart at some point that will include the final two weeks. The lingering test e should mostly cover you, but it is a valid concern.
[quote]Dynamo Hum wrote:
You are doing just fine. Ideally it would be optimal to have dbol in the mix in your two final weeks. To do that without compromising your liver too much, some of the first 6 weeks should be dbol free. If you are concerned about tren dick, then you could stop the dbol for two weeks anytime during the first 6 weeks and restart at some point that will include the final two weeks. The lingering test e should mostly cover you, but it is a valid concern.[/quote]
Thank you for your input DH. Have you read somewhere that there is a greatly increased risk on the liver from running 17-AA’s for cycles >6 weeks?
I am fond of dianabol so will have my liver values checked before my next cycle. Interestingly, I can get it as an injectable FWIW.
[quote] Brook wrote:
It sounds to me as though your Trenbolone is fine in quality - i would like you to expand on how exactly you walk into a pharmacy in NZ and buy Tren Ace however! Did you, or was it in Thailand or somewhere?
The ONLY human grade trenbolone product was Parabolan, and that is trenbolone Hex. Trenbolone Ace has only ever been available as a powder (thus UG product) or as Finaplix pellets for cattle.
There will be some online and thai (etc) ‘pharmacies’ that sell Tren Ace as an injectable, but it is still an underground product.
A pharmaceutical product is one that has been approved for legal, medicinal human use and marketplace sales. Not just a powder filtered with a 0.22um filter and sealed in a sterile vial with a pretty lable. I can see why you would expect it to be legit though.
Look at British Dragon and British Dispensary et al, for all intents and purposes they were pharmaceutical companies - however they were still UGL’s.
(Dont buy BD)
Brook[/quote]
Cheers Brook. Nievely thought that ‘pharm’ grade was what you bought from a pharmacy. Yes it was from Thailand, not NZ lol. Hit the jackpot too; found a pharmacist who will send future supplies to me as ‘disguised’ goodies! Heehaa
Dangerous is a little harsh of a description for low estrogen - it will however give as many sides as high Estrogen levels will.
Could you expand on what effect progesterone has (with tren being basically a progestin) when estrogen levels are low, that would make the user so uncomfortable?
Seems like you are spouting bro knowledge - ie. stuff you have heard and dont understand.
Dont get me wrong, i do it on occassion, but i expect to be called out too…[/quote]
your very correct, I love it when you call me out it helps me to get my stuff straight because I am often mixxed up when it comes to things that I think I understand.
by you “calling me out” and correcting me its always helped me learn and you have a way of doing so in a respectful and classy matter,something that I really appreciate,and respect
thank you.
with that said allow me to explain myself a little.(hopefully)
having too low of estrogen is not really “dangerous” that was very poor wording on my part
too low of estrogen and the fact that tren is 5x more androgenic on average than test and you have the harsh sides everyone talks about.
I am still unsure which attribute causes the sides, if its the effect on E levels or simply the “strength” of the drug but I like to think its a combo of both really.
about the prolactin/progestin things
what I am actually talking about is gyno symptoms and not “uncomfortable sides” these 2 things in conjunction with low estrogen,again horrible wording and thank you for setting me straight.
by themselves the prolactin/progestin really does not cause gyno but in order to combat the sides caused by having estrogen too low we all (should) be adding a compound such as test.
if aromatase is not controlled there may be moderate/high estrogen levels despite Trens effect on lowering it.
progesterone works synergistically with estrogen, to stimulate breast production and prolactin has a stimulatory effect on gyno in the presence of high circulating estrogen levels to cause a person to lactate. adding Testosterone which aromotizes to estrogen can cause increased prolactin I beleive.
however this is usually of no concern when using an AI because estrogen has to be at high enough levels to work synergistically with high levels of prolactin or progesterone, to cause breast development and lactation, this rarely happens but it does still happen because some people are more sensitive than others.
these are really not things to worry over so much but they are still sides that happen so having caber or bromo and a decent AI is my way of knowing I have all sides covered just in case, and using an AI like adex or letro is actually a must on any and all cycles that utilize test IMO.
god,I hope Im not digging a deeper hole for myself and looking a fool here.
[quote]NZ RABBIT wrote:
Brook wrote:
It sounds to me as though your Trenbolone is fine in quality - i would like you to expand on how exactly you walk into a pharmacy in NZ and buy Tren Ace however! Did you, or was it in Thailand or somewhere?
The ONLY human grade trenbolone product was Parabolan, and that is trenbolone Hex. Trenbolone Ace has only ever been available as a powder (thus UG product) or as Finaplix pellets for cattle.
There will be some online and thai (etc) ‘pharmacies’ that sell Tren Ace as an injectable, but it is still an underground product.
A pharmaceutical product is one that has been approved for legal, medicinal human use and marketplace sales. Not just a powder filtered with a 0.22um filter and sealed in a sterile vial with a pretty lable. I can see why you would expect it to be legit though.
Look at British Dragon and British Dispensary et al, for all intents and purposes they were pharmaceutical companies - however they were still UGL’s.
(Dont buy BD)
Brook
Cheers Brook. Nievely thought that ‘pharm’ grade was what you bought from a pharmacy. Yes it was from Thailand, not NZ lol. Hit the jackpot too; found a pharmacist who will send future supplies to me as ‘disguised’ goodies! Heehaa[/quote]
FWIW, many of the thai pharmacies have websites and are the actual online pharmacies that many people use to this day.
They are fully aware that they are selling legally but you are buying illegally. As long as they include a disclaimer, they are safe AFAIK.
