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Test+Tren+Dbol for First Cycle


#1

Hi guys, been a while since i've posted on this site and I'm just looking for some opinions and advice. I've been training for about 10 years now, originally started off in the 130's and worked my way up to 200lbs and 16% bf (I'm 5'9"). My arms alone have gone from 11" (yes...very small i know) to 17" cold. Problem is I've been stuck at this point for a few years now.

I've finally decided to go on a cycle to get past this plateau and realize some physique and strength goals. I have a friend who did a couple of misguided cycles when he was away in Afghanistan on tour and we're going to go on cycle together. Now I've been training seriously with a proper diet and have great mind muscle connection for the past 4 years. Much more experience and knowledge than he.

My current big 3 are:

Bench 275
Deadlift 565
Squat 455

*bench is weak due to bad leverages and shoulder issue

This is my first cycle. I'm still researching dosages but I've been contemplating:

500mg test-enanthate/w weeks 1-12
200mg tren-E /w weeks 1-12
50mg dbol/d for weeks 1-4

and 50 mg of Arimidex/d

I'm not planning on starting until i get the PCT down and everything in my posession but what I'm wondering is if perhaps this is a proper cycle for someone of my experience? Or if it is a little too advanced.

My goals are to put on about 15-20 lbs of quality muscle and lean out...drop about 20 lbs of fat. Not looking to get super lean. 10-11% would be great.

As for my training I train heavy focussing on compounds and some isolation. Training 5-6 days a week depending on how my body feels.

My maintenance calories are around 3200

Thanks in advance guys.


#2

I would just run the Test for the first time around. 50mg/day of Arimidex? Start with .25 a day or even eod. Gaining 20lbs of muscle while losing 20lbs of fat is a tall order, and I would choose one goal for now, (muscle gain, or fat loss). If your going to use the Tren anyways, then look into a dopimine agonist for prolactin control. Dbol has a nice synergy with tren, but by the time the Tren E kicks, you'll be done with the Dbol. I hope this helps, and good luck!


#3

awesome! thanks! To be honest I'm really not sure what to expect. I have already bought the Tren and Dbol too. Is it ok to just hang on to them for another cycle or would I get good results from the Test and Dbol? Well since it's the winter I'd like to put on some size and maybe save the Tren then for another cycle when I want to lean out and put on some size.

To be honest a recomp with some size would be great or just a good clean bulk.


#4

Recomp with some size sounds good. Save the tren, but if you want to use the dbol, you have a few options. Some guys use the dbol as a kickstart, some wait to use the dbol until the test kicks in, some use the dbol at the end of a cycle and as a bridge to pct, and some use it as both a kick start and a bridge. I like the last idea. I'm a fan of shorter cycle's and higher dosages. If I had your stash, this is what I would run:

Test E 750mg wks 1-8
Dbol 30mg/day wks 1-3 AND 8-10.
Arimidex .25 ed (taper through first wk of pct and discontinue during 2nd week)

PCT wks 11-14
Nolvadex 40/40/20/20


#5

^^ This is some excellent advice.

However, if you do proceed with the tren use, I'd advise continuing the Test for some period of time after you've come off the Tren. Many members here advocate this, and the shutdown can be brutal if you come of Test and Tren at the same time.

Also, as this is your first cycle, I'd also like to suggest that you choose one goal, bulk or cut, rather than re-comp.


#6

thanks guys, ok I'll try Neoclassical's approach. I'm going to go for a bulk since it's the winter and I'm not particularly chubby haha. I expect I may still lose a little bit of fat while doing this. I'll also hold onto the Tren for a later cycle.

One more question, the Test-E at 750 mg/w is that taken in 2 doses or 3?so every other day or every 3 days?


#7

So Neoclassical, that works out to 6 weeks of dbol? 2 of which overlap the PCT (Nolva).

Would this stack put on much size? And whats the likely hood of retaining it? I'm not new to training and I lift very heavy and intensely so my habits won't die off post cycle by any means.


#8

Yes, six weeks of Dbol in total.

No, do not let the dbol overlap your PCT. I edited my layout from earlier.

If you pin 250mg m/w/f, start the Dbol on Thursday of your 7th week. Pin your last week of test (wk 8). Following my example, Friday of wk 8 should be the last pin of your cycle, and pct should start 2 weeks after that date. Think of your cycle as 10weeks and not 8; the last day of Dbol is the last day of your cycle.

Start Nolvadex (PCT) the day after your last dose of dbol (2wks after last pin). Read into drug half lives, pct, etc. The stickies have it all. As far as gains are concerned, that's up to you. Dorian Yates has a great analogy about gains and AAS..you should google it.


#9

So 750mg is not too much for a first timer? I see most people taking 500 but combining with something else.


#10

I don't have peer-reviewed studies backing the information I've shared with you, but alot of trusted guys around here would likley agree that the plan I layed out would be effective, and not overkill. However, I was working with what you gave me, and shared "what I would do" with your drugs..haha. If you want to run 500mg a week for 8weeks, I think that would be fine to. :slight_smile:


#11

I suppose it is always best to start off a little lower...better safe than sorry since it's my first time. Besides it saves some for next time.

I'm sorry for all the questions but I figure why not ask someone with experience. Would my maintenance calories change then since the body is being pushed in a more anabolic state. It seems to me that by eating at my current maintenance (around 3000 cals) wouldn't i be able to lean out and put on a bit of size? Or is it best to just bulk or cut?


#12

No worries for all the questions, I enjoy it! Here's a post by buddaboy with that Dorian Yates analogy I mentioned.

Imagine your body is a building site

Imagine your natural test levels are the workers

Imagine food is the bricks and building supplies

The workers cannot build without bricks, or build at a good rate without sufficient bricks and building supplies

Taking AAS is like adding more workers

Not eating more is like hiring more workers to work on your building site but not giving them more bricks and materials to build with.

The moral of the story?....[/quote]


#13

[/quote]

Ah, very wise. Yeah I saw that before. Thanks so much for your input man. It's definitely appreciated.

So I decided I will follow your suggested protocol but dose the test at 500mg instead of 750. and do the Dbol start and finish. Now do you take a week off after the final dbol before PCT or do you begin with the Nolva the day after your last Dbol dose?


#14

You're very welcome.

neoclassical wrote:
"Start Nolvadex (PCT) the day after your last dose of dbol (2wks after last pin)."

Here's some good info on steriod half lives. http://www.british-bodybuilding.co.uk/Half-Life.shtml. As you can see, Dianabol's half-life is only 4.5-6hrs, while Testosterone Enanthate's half-life is 10.5 days. Start Nolvadex (PCT) the day after your last dose of dbol. (2ks after last pin)


#15

Another quick question before I commence is about the PCT. I know Nolva was suggested but in other forums i've read people recommending Aromasin and Clomid over Nolva. What's best? I obviously want my bases covered and a lot of PCT protocol seems to be opinion based.


#16

Aromasin is an AI. You need either clomid or nolva (or some of the newer SERMS) for PCT. I know a lot of people who run the AI through PCT and taper off the AI after PCT. This is another opinion.

Nolva is much more effective on a mg per mg basis. I cannot remember the exact numbers but I believe it was shown that 20mg nolva is more effective than 100mg of clomid.... Don't quote me on that though, PCT is one aspect I really don't know a ton about because I blast and cruise.