Test Taper: My Experience

Pharma / TRT
21

[quote]scs wrote:
I’ve thought about the test taper but there is still one thing that I do not understand about the theory. Conventional wisdom is that even 200 mg a week of test will completely suppress your ability to generate natural test. Am I correct in assuming those who believe in the test taper approach do not believe this conventional wisdom regarding natural test production being suppressed. [/quote]

The idea is to taper under 200mg, much lower over an extended time in order for your body to realize a new lower level and meet that by starting natural test production

22

My understanding on some of the theory is this:

If your supersaturating the androgen receptors (yes Im really simplifying this) then the receptors will become less sensitive to the ligand in this case testosterone to try to get the body back to homeostasis… it doesnt WANT to be superstimulated. Its just like how coke addicts produce less dopamine naturally so that when they get their hit they no longer get a huge rush of dopamine because they are less receptive to the drug.

Soooo as you go from say 1g of anabolics to 500 mg of test to a final low dose of say 50 mg of test a week or lower you are still suppressed BUT your receptors no longer have do deal with huge amounts of androgens and therefore have become more sensitive to testosterone so when your body starts producing test again its closer to what your body has been dealing with in the last few weeks instead of a few hundred times less.

Plus those that say that 1g of test will shut you down just as hard as 100 or 50 mg really need to think about their statement. Yes test production might not be occuring at 50 mg a week because the body sees no need for it. At ten or twenty times that dose the body is trying desperately to deal with all the excess hormones etc and logically has to be way more negatively inhibited to produce any test.

Just my thought on the whole thing. Could be completely wrong but could be part of the equation.

That said dont bother picking apart my post with “false logic” hooker, unlike others on this site I wont waste hours of my time arguing with you.

23

Could you use Adex instead of Letro?

24

You can.

25

[quote]TwistedLocal wrote:
My understanding on some of the theory is this:

If your supersaturating the androgen receptors (yes Im really simplifying this) then the receptors will become less sensitive to the ligand in this case testosterone to try to get the body back to homeostasis… it doesnt WANT to be superstimulated. Its just like how coke addicts produce less dopamine naturally so that when they get their hit they no longer get a huge rush of dopamine because they are less receptive to the drug.

Soooo as you go from say 1g of anabolics to 500 mg of test to a final low dose of say 50 mg of test a week or lower you are still suppressed BUT your receptors no longer have do deal with huge amounts of androgens and therefore have become more sensitive to testosterone so when your body starts producing test again its closer to what your body has been dealing with in the last few weeks instead of a few hundred times less.

Plus those that say that 1g of test will shut you down just as hard as 100 or 50 mg really need to think about their statement. Yes test production might not be occuring at 50 mg a week because the body sees no need for it. At ten or twenty times that dose the body is trying desperately to deal with all the excess hormones etc and logically has to be way more negatively inhibited to produce any test.

Just my thought on the whole thing. Could be completely wrong but could be part of the equation.

That said dont bother picking apart my post with “false logic” hooker, unlike others on this site I wont waste hours of my time arguing with you. [/quote]

Your statements are fairly correct, however the real benefit to tapering is that you end up administering such a low does of test that your body starts producing natural testosterone but is still being supplemented by the small dose of exogeneous test. For example if your bodies natural level of testosterone at homeostasis is 50mg a week and you are injecting 30mg a week your body will begin producing testosterone in order to try and fill that 20mg gap. So instead of cutting off all sources of test and letting your body struggle to bring levels back to normal you are easing it into it. I hope that makes sense.

26

Thank you T1gNaL1 for such an informative read.

The logic and reasoning behind why you taper is sound and intelligent.

I am definitely adding this thread to my favs list and use the information to help me out in fine tuning my first cycle I’m gonna embark on very soon.

=)

27

Just a few thoughts/questions…Let’s say you have just completed 10 weeks of Test @ 500mg and then you start the taper. While running lower of doses of Test <100mg/ week, would your Test levels be fairly low, as your body still may not have started producing on its own? I guess my question is does their become a point where exogenous Test is minimal, yet your body hasn’t bounced back with its own Test causing there to be a dip in T-levels? I would imagine this has to do with the ester of Test, so assuming a form with a shorter half-life is used.

28

[quote]B-Mac13 wrote:
Just a few thoughts/questions…Let’s say you have just completed 10 weeks of Test @ 500mg and then you start the taper. While running lower of doses of Test <100mg/ week, would your Test levels be fairly low, as your body still may not have started producing on its own? I guess my question is does their become a point where exogenous Test is minimal, yet your body hasn’t bounced back with its own Test causing there to be a dip in T-levels? I would imagine this has to do with the ester of Test, so assuming a form with a shorter half-life is used.[/quote]

no, not if your taper is gradual enough, once the administration of test is less then what your body’s physiological needs are, it will begin to produce enough to pick up the slack. The transition can be so seemless, libido-wise, and mood wise you may not even notice. Pump wise and size wise you will still feel like you are not ‘on’ the juice anymore once your weekly amount of test back to normal physiological levels. This is irregardless to whether you are still supplementing a little or not.

29

If I ran test Enan. for 10 weeks, could I use the natural longer half-life to taper me off it? Or would it be better to wait a few weeks for the esters to reduce the amount of test and then use some prop. as per the above protocol?

30

[quote]gettinbigger wrote:
If I ran test Enan. for 10 weeks, could I use the natural longer half-life to taper me off it? Or would it be better to wait a few weeks for the esters to reduce the amount of test and then use some prop. as per the above protocol?[/quote]

You should supplement a little something during that time period of 4 weeks irregardless.

If you use prop, use 100mg devided into 3 injections

If you use enanthate use 100mg per week, or 50mg biweekly.

after 4 weeks, gradually reducing your weekly dose. This may take another 4 weeks to get it to zero, or longer, but the thing you have to realize is during that time, since your weekly administration of testosterone is below physiological levels, your body will consider it’self ‘off’ cycle. You can count this time as your time off cycle, as well, your body is slowly adjusting itself to the lower levels of test in your body, and begining to pick produce more testosterone itself,as you inject less.

As long as you were Eugonadic before you began your cycle (didn’t have an underlying problem with your hpta), this protocol works better then any other.

ie. maxiumum gains kept
no loss of sex drive
no mood swings
testicular size returns to normal
minimized changes - i.e. acne
no rebound gyno
better gains on your next cycle.

31

Would this protocol work if you where using EQ with Test Enan. or EQ by itself? When would you start adding something (test prop or enan.) when using the longer acting esters? Since Test Enan. takes 3 weeks to clear would a good time to start be week 3?

For instance would this be effective?:

wk 1 Test Enan. 1000mg frontload, .5mg Adex ED
Wk 2-10 Test Enan. 500mg, .5mg Adex EOD
WK 11-12: .5mg Adex EOD

begin PCT:
wk 12: use the esters to taper
wk 13: Prop 25mg EOD, .25 Adex EOD
Wk 14: prop 25mg E3D, .25 Adex EOD
Wk 15: prop 10mg E3D, .25 Adex EOD

I’m sorry for all the stupid questions, I understand the theory behind the test taper but I’m not very sure how to set one up, especially with longer acting esters. Thanks for taking the time to give me some advice. I think this is one of the most logical/safe idea’s for a PCT I have ever read. I want to use it with my 1st cycle and post my results as well, but I want to be sure I get it right!

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
gettinbigger wrote:
If I ran test Enan. for 10 weeks, could I use the natural longer half-life to taper me off it? Or would it be better to wait a few weeks for the esters to reduce the amount of test and then use some prop. as per the above protocol?

You should supplement a little something during that time period of 4 weeks irregardless.

If you use prop, use 100mg devided into 3 injections

If you use enanthate use 100mg per week, or 50mg biweekly.

after 4 weeks, gradually reducing your weekly dose. This may take another 4 weeks to get it to zero, or longer, but the thing you have to realize is during that time, since your weekly administration of testosterone is below physiological levels, your body will consider it’self ‘off’ cycle. You can count this time as your time off cycle, as well, your body is slowly adjusting itself to the lower levels of test in your body, and begining to pick produce more testosterone itself,as you inject less.

As long as you were Eugonadic before you began your cycle (didn’t have an underlying problem with your hpta), this protocol works better then any other.

ie. maxiumum gains kept
no loss of sex drive
no mood swings
testicular size returns to normal
minimized changes - i.e. acne
no rebound gyno
better gains on your next cycle.[/quote]

32

When using gear that isn’t testosterone, such as Deca or EQ, you have wait untill levels of such gear are so low that they won’t interfere with recovery at all.

Use a base amount of test - say 100mg per week, for 6 weeks while you wait for the Deca or EQ to clear your body sufficiently. Once this is complete, then you can begin to taper down your weekly amount of test. Yes this could mean 10 weeks of ‘taper/ pct’ but keep in mind through out the majority of this time your body consider’s itself ‘off’ so you could count this period as time ‘off’ gear if you needed to.

At the end of the taper you will have kept the maximum amount of gains possible, workouts will not have been majorly effected, libido will not have lagged, no moodiness, minimal acne, and full recovery. So this pct may take longer than some people’s idea of pct using nolva or clomid, hcg e.t.c, but in the end and throughout the above advantages will be quite apparrent.

1 Like
33

[quote]Prisoner#22 wrote:
When using gear that isn’t testosterone, such as Deca or EQ, you have wait untill levels of such gear are so low that they won’t interfere with recovery at all.

Use a base amount of test - say 100mg per week, for 6 weeks while you wait for the Deca or EQ to clear your body sufficiently. Once this is complete, then you can begin to taper down your weekly amount of test. Yes this could mean 10 weeks of ‘taper/ pct’ but keep in mind through out the majority of this time your body consider’s itself ‘off’ so you could count this period as time ‘off’ gear if you needed to.

At the end of the taper you will have kept the maximum amount of gains possible, workouts will not have been majorly effected, libido will not have lagged, no moodiness, minimal acne, and full recovery. So this pct may take longer than some people’s idea of pct using nolva or clomid, hcg e.t.c, but in the end and throughout the above advantages will be quite apparrent.[/quote]

Thanks for all the help P22! Do you guys all consider the taper as part of your “off” time? P22 or T1gnal1 how long do you take off bettween cycles when you use a long taper like 6-10 weeks? Do you feel your HPTA sufficiently recovers?

I honestly think I’ve learned more from this thread than I have in the last 6 months of reading the posts on this board…Thanks guys!

34

Well i think recover is a bad choice of words. Since you never really drop below your physiological norm there is no need to “recover”. As soon as the Taper in completed i would say your body shortly after regains homeostasis.

Depending on the length of your cycle would determine your time off. A big factor for me in this “OFF” period i am having now is resensitizing my body to AAS. I plan on taking three months off before i begin my next cycle.

35

3 months off is usually sufficient - it works for me and I ususally am on for 9 months of the year.