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Test Taper/HPTA restart Log


#1

Well guys,
The decision has been made, I am coming off cycle after 8 months and attempting to restart the testes into producing again.

I went on cycle around June last year (thanks to a very helpful chap who sorted me out while I was in the USA, you know who you are :wink: ).
Since then I have had some cruise periods but mainly been blasting with 100mg Test Prop EOD, did a run of around 6 weeks with low test/high tren, and a cutter involving some DNP, T3, clen etc (not all at the same time before you start crying lol).

As it stands right now:
Test Prop - 25mg EOD
hCG - 375iu 2x/wk

This week I am sticking to 25mg EOD as it is valentines day and as you may be aware I cannot have any problems in the sack so to speak.
As of next week I will drop that dose to 20mg EOD, then 15mg EOD and so on.
I will also taper the hCG, I know that is not the recommended protocol but I have modified it to give me the best chance of recovering. I feel I cannot afford to remove the hCG as I see testicular atrophy VERY quickly if I miss a shot.
Alongside this I will start 20mg ED TAMOXIFEN also.

Bloods have been taken last week (no real point as LH/FSH will be rock bottom) but they wont hurt anyway.
I will have bloods drawn again roughly around the 15mg EOD point to see the effects on LH/FSH, to see if indeed I am starting to recover according to Prisoners theory of no suppression below 100mg/wk of Test. However will the hCG give a false LH reading? Hmmm...

Observations so far:
LESS ENERGY
MORE DOMS
NO DEPRESSION
NO MOOD SWINGS
NO IMPACT ON LIBIDO
WEAKER ERECTIONS

SB


#2

Good luck bro, I hope it turns out ok for you.

REmember I was having problems with my libido? Well caber seems to be helping. You might want to try it.


#3

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
Good luck bro, I hope it turns out ok for you.

REmember I was having problems with my libido? Well caber seems to be helping. You might want to try it.[/quote]

Thanks man, will be relying on support from board members which will help a great deal.

I have a bunch of caber on hand (from tren cycle), however I hate the way it makes me feel.
I think you were using NPP if I remember so high Prolactin was probably your problem (which caber would have fixed hence the returned libido). Prolactin is not my problem however as it was in the normal range post-tren use.

SB


#4

Pretty interested to see your results, since I was thinking about going on a long cycle like you in the near future.


#5

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
Good luck bro, I hope it turns out ok for you.

REmember I was having problems with my libido? Well caber seems to be helping. You might want to try it.[/quote]

Thanks man, will be relying on support from board members which will help a great deal.

I have a bunch of caber on hand (from tren cycle), however I hate the way it makes me feel.
I think you were using NPP if I remember so high Prolactin was probably your problem (which caber would have fixed hence the returned libido). Prolactin is not my problem however as it was in the normal range post-tren use.

SB[/quote]

yeah prolactin was definitely my problem. Fixing it now though so it’s all good (or at least it will be…).

the rank feeling from caber goes away after a while. Might still be worth using for the better wood it gives you


#6

Did you use HCG throughout the 8 months?

I have done the Test Stasis/Taper and it worked - without any HCG. Now for the first time I used HCG throughout the cycle and my balls are indeed bigger, as in full sized, so I expect a faster recovery.

#1 use a mix of masteron and test for even better result
#2 remember to do a 4-6 week stasis at 100mg/week first
#3 I start using Nolva just before doing the taper part. And it is short for me. 2-3 weeks.

What I dislike is the long time this takes - you’re not “on” nor “off” for a long time
I have bad acne during this
I feel coming back to my real age and it sucks (!)

What I like is no depression, smooth transition, etc. No libido issue, but it’s not the same as being on cycle!

I’m interested in your experience as I’ve only done “normal” 8-14 week cycles, but in the future I do plan on blast and cruising for 8-9 months out of the year. But I’d like to avoid full time TRT if possible.


#7

[quote]SwD wrote:
Did you use HCG throughout the 8 months?

I have done the Test Stasis/Taper and it worked - without any HCG. Now for the first time I used HCG throughout the cycle and my balls are indeed bigger, as in full sized, so I expect a faster recovery.

#1 use a mix of masteron and test for even better result
#2 remember to do a 4-6 week stasis at 100mg/week first
#3 I start using Nolva just before doing the taper part. And it is short for me. 2-3 weeks.

What I dislike is the long time this takes - you’re not “on” nor “off” for a long time
I have bad acne during this
I feel coming back to my real age and it sucks (!)

What I like is no depression, smooth transition, etc. No libido issue, but it’s not the same as being on cycle!

I’m interested in your experience as I’ve only done “normal” 8-14 week cycles, but in the future I do plan on blast and cruising for 8-9 months out of the year. But I’d like to avoid full time TRT if possible.

[/quote]

Yes I used hCG for the 8 months, roughly 500iu 2x/wk where possible.
I am curious to your Mast/Test reasoning, have you used the Test alone and compared it to Mast/Test? Whats the difference? Libido I presume?
Ive been on about 100mg/wk for 4-5 weeks which I count as my stasis period, after this week will start dropping the dose.

This taper is going to coincide with my Medicine final exams so fingers crossed all goes well and I don’t get too much brain fog like I usually do when I come off!

SB


#8

Good luck bro…we’re rooting for ya!


#9

Are you primary or secondary hypo? Clomifene is far superior at illiciting natural LH production.

I second the Masteron notion. E2 levels can be controlled well with DHT as well as AI, at lower doses (ie: TRT). It will also boost energy, libido and lower E2, without the dreaded ‘brain fog’.

-PTD


#10

[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:
I second the Masteron notion. E2 levels can be controlled well with DHT as well as AI, at lower doses (ie: TRT). It will also boost energy, libido and lower E2, without the dreaded ‘brain fog’.
[/quote]
Like he said.

Prisoner suggested it in his stasis/taper method, and yes, I like it better than test alone. I might even try a 100% Masteron stasis/taper. Sometimes I do a 75/25 Mast/T split.

I’m sure it’s better to do a 4-6 week taper, but my reasoning is that after the stasis is done and most systems back to normal, why not go off quick with the help of Nolva. Hell many people do that right off the bat after a cycle. That’s why I do a 2-3 week one. I dislike the pinning (even it’s only 2x a week with insulin pins) and not being totally “off”.

Bill Roberts wanted to test if bridging with Masteron alone, at significant amounts like 200-400mg/week, could do the trick of recharging the system without really going off (the ultimate fantasy…). I don’t think he ever concluded if it was feasible. In any case I didn’t see any follow up on that (maybe I missed it). No other AAS would be considered for that aspect so that tells us something.

I’m still convinced in 2 decades from now we’ll have much better methods of cycling, going off, mixing amounts, restarting, etc. Not in the sense of getting more results while on cycle, but in the sense of minimizing sides and better overall health.


#11

[quote]VTBalla34 wrote:
Good luck bro…we’re rooting for ya![/quote]

Thanks my friend!

SB


#12

[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:
Are you primary or secondary hypo? Clomifene is far superior at illiciting natural LH production.

I second the Masteron notion. E2 levels can be controlled well with DHT as well as AI, at lower doses (ie: TRT). It will also boost energy, libido and lower E2, without the dreaded ‘brain fog’.

-PTD [/quote]

Neither, I was eugonadal before cycle, the blasting and cruising was self-prescribed because I didnt want to deal with recovery.
I may give the Mast a shot although my libido is good so far… cant say the same for erection quality however.

I hear you on the Clomiphene, I was aware it was better suited to LH production than nolva unfortunately I cannot get any at the moment :frowning:

PTD or SWD, considering I am on 25mg EOD of Test Prop now, how would you incorporate the Mast in if you were to?

FEELINGS SO FAR:
ENERGY GONE DOWN EVEN MORE
DRY SKIN
LIBIDO OK
MOOD OK
DESIRE TO TRAIN DECREASED

SB


#13

[quote]PAINTRAINDave wrote:
Clomifene is far superior at illiciting natural LH production. [/quote]

There are some studies claiming the opposite, and that found that Clomid tends to reduce pituitary sensitivity to GnRH whereas Nolva tends to improve it.


#14

From experience - though without any scientific ‘back up’ - I would say that clomid was always MUCH better for ME as a PCT drug than nolvadex.

SB, I don’t mean to sound like an ass, you know I like you and have always been positive, honest and forthcoming whilst exchanging information with you, but I have been in a similar situation to you; we agreed (as much as we could by brief discussion on an internet forum) that our situations re suppression were comparable, and in light of that I don’t think this is going to work.

I sincerely hope it does, I really do, but if this PCT were a horse I wouldn’t back it. As I said I have been in your situation. YOur test levels were unacceptably low to you 8 months ago weren’t they? Now, after 8 months of cycling/blast cruise/suppression you’ll be fortunate to get them back to where they were before. Tapering off as gradually as possible using clomid at around 150mg a day would be my recommendation (based on experience, back in the day when I used to come off), HGH will help preserve muscle but will not help with erection and libido issues. The longest I stayed off for was a year, in that time my recovery did improve (to the extent where I could get and sustain an erection whilst quite drunk) my overall sex drive never went back to where it was, I also think that the 12 months also helped me psychologically adjust to my lower levels as much as they did improve. I tried coming off and went round in circles for far too long playing catchup after deciding to go back on another cycle after yet another failed PCT.

Have you looked into Triptelorine? That at present is the only thing I would consider trying to use to come off of HRT, and it’s been nearly 4 years for me now (will be 4 years on the 23rd May). While I would have liked to have recovered successfully and gone back to ‘normal’ I just take 0.5mg adex a week, one shot of test cyp, and 250iu of HCG and don’t worry too much about it. After I fucked up my test levels I eventually had to accept that I had gambled and lost. I found out I had a fragile endocrine system the hard way.


#15

Its been a long time BB, its good to have your contribution to my thread.
We did generally agree that B&C was my best bet roughly a year ago yes, pre-AAS I did not have any bloods so I cannot say for sure if I naturally had low T but I did not have any low T symptoms.

8 months ago I went on holiday to the USA for 2 months and was not enjoying it due low T symptoms as I had been off PCT for roughly 1 month before the holiday. So I decided to jump on over there, and continued when I got back.
Being so young, my main concern is fertility. I would much rather suffer low T for a couple years till I have kids than to remain on TRT and compromise my chances even further.
I know we spoke about your experiences on TRT and how you have never felt better, I am happy for you that you have hit something that works. But for me, honestly, even on the TRT my sex drive wasnt ‘phenomenal’.

I have Triptorelin on hand, I have used it once in the past and I felt it had no impact on my PCT. HOWEVER, within 3 months my bloods were improving rapidly, something that would have previously taken 6+ months. So I cannot directly comment on its effects.

How would any of you go about incorporating Trip into a Test/Mast taper?

Yesterday I mixed 1ml Mast Prop (100mg/ml) with 1ml Test Prop (100mg/ml) in a syringe, and am using 0.26ml of this mixture EOD currently. From next week I will drop this to 0.20ml EOD and so on.

SB


#16

just a thought SB, do you think perhaps the libido thing could be psychological?

could just be that on cycle you expect your libido to be high so it is, then when you’re off you expect it to crash so it does.

do you have a long term partner? Or are you hooking up with strangers?

I read sometihng over on PM where they were talking about libido problems post cycle, and one of the mods said “If you are thinking more about what you’re sticking in than where you’re sticking it, you’ll have problems”


#17

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
just a thought SB, do you think perhaps the libido thing could be psychological?

could just be that on cycle you expect your libido to be high so it is, then when you’re off you expect it to crash so it does.

do you have a long term partner? Or are you hooking up with strangers?

I read sometihng over on PM where they were talking about libido problems post cycle, and one of the mods said “If you are thinking more about what you’re sticking in than where you’re sticking it, you’ll have problems”[/quote]

Yes I think psychological factors play a big part.
I have a long term partner and hooking up aswell… LOL dont judge me!

Me and VT spoke about this sometime ago as he has good theories on the penis (gotta expose you VT haha!) and its blood flow. We concluded my problem was phycological.
Consider this, how is it possible to go flaccid on 250mg of Viagra? Yes it has happened to me.
However it is only with a new partner, there is no problem with the long-term partner.

SB


#18

My understanding is that fertility will not be affected if you maintain testicular function with HCG. You will need to find that ‘sweet spot’ on HRT, using your libido as a yardstick for where you are. I find it is more about adjusting the amount of adex than the amount of T.

If you want to incorporate Masteron prop I would revisit Prisoners test taper thread and follow his guidance.

I don’t like to be negative, but as I said, suffering from low T, then going back on for a further 8 months’ suppression can only make recovery more difficult and full recovery less likely.


#19

[quote]buddaboy wrote:
My understanding is that fertility will not be affected if you maintain testicular function with HCG. You will need to find that ‘sweet spot’ on HRT, using your libido as a yardstick for where you are. I find it is more about adjusting the amount of adex than the amount of T.

If you want to incorporate Masteron prop I would revisit Prisoners test taper thread and follow his guidance.

I don’t like to be negative, but as I said, suffering from low T, then going back on for a further 8 months’ suppression can only make recovery more difficult and full recovery less likely. [/quote]

Technically I would have to come off TRT when I want to have kids anyway wouldnt I? My reasoning for this is Intra-testicular testosterone (ITT). ITT is absolutely necessary for spermatogenesis and while on exogenous T, ITT is suppressed. There are studies that show low-dose hCG can maintain ITT levels, but they only go as far as 4 weeks.

I was on adex with TRT but it made me feel so crap I came off it and felt abit better.

Lets see how it goes, I am determined to recover to a satisfactory feeling so lets be optimistic. Dont worry about negativity my friend, I know you only mean well for me.

SB


#20

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
Yes I think psychological factors play a big part.
I have a long term partner and hooking up aswell… LOL dont judge me!

Me and VT spoke about this sometime ago as he has good theories on the penis (gotta expose you VT haha!) and its blood flow. We concluded my problem was phycological.
Consider this, how is it possible to go flaccid on 250mg of Viagra? Yes it has happened to me.
However it is only with a new partner, there is no problem with the long-term partner.

SB[/quote]
I ain’t judging you brother: I know it is part psychological as I too have had issues with new girls, and not with the GF :slight_smile: BTW she knows about it so it ain’t really “cheating”. It is indeed a side effect of the gigantic libido on cycle. Amazing how horny I get.

My confidence is obviously not 100% with some bad experiences, even though I’m good most of the times, the few bad times you really feel “impotent”. Damn it sucks! Even more so as it’s my head and can’t find what triggers it, since most of the time I’m fine. And I’m sure condoms don’t help! I don’t need them for the GF but I won’t bring her back “unwanted extras” so I suffer through them. I really hate them.

BTW libido and hardness won’t be the same off cycle! Maybe because your cycles are so long you forget what “normal” feels like. I know I do after a few weeks so can only imagine after 8 months!