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Test Still Low 3 Months After Cycle


#1

Hi everyone,

Just got my bloods back 3 months from 4th cycle (which was about 13 weeks) of Test/EQ. So this test was about 2 months after PCT. I ran Adex, HCG on cycle. Nolva 40/40/20/20/20 for PCT. No clomid.

I am really concerned with these numbers:

Test: 131 ng/dL
LH: 8.0 mIU/mL
FSH: 4.2 mIU/mL
Estradiol 22.6 pg/mL
Prolactin 15.2 ng/ml

Test seems very low. What is going on?

I feel like shit lately, but I have kept most of the gains from this cycle, and actually hit some PRs recently. Energy is very low though in general, and libido is shot.

My doctor only knows about the prolactin, and he recommends a pituitary MRI. I don't disclose my steroid use, because I don't want it on my medical file.

I was going to start a short cutting cycle from now until Christmas, but I am reconsidering this now.

I appreciate any advice.


#2

With that much LH stimulation I think it’s easy to assume your testes are not responding well. How much hcg did you run during cycle? How much balls atrophy did you incurr?

Maybe you just recover slower then others. But if primary and it seems like it is, consider TRT for life.


#3

I ran 1000 iu HCG per week.

My balls did shrink, but loads have been ok over the past month.

If it makes any difference, I have been taking 40mg oxycontin daily for the past week (lumbar disc tear). I know that lowers test, but I doubt it would skew the results that much.

What does “primary” mean? I don’t want TRT for life just yet. I would like to have kids at some point in the future.


#4

First, post the lab ranges on the numbers listed above, specifically LH/FSH and prolactin.

Primary meaning Primary Hypogonadism: your balls can not produce enough T despite the plenty of stimulation from pituitary via Luteinizing Hormone (LH), meaning your testes are compromised. Your LH looks on higher side but need lab ranges to confirm.

At 1000iu HCG per week (assuming you split the dosing) you shouldn’t have any testicular atrophy. This leads me to think your HCG was garbage or damaged in transit or dosed/dissolved incorrectly. Did you keep the vial in the fridge?

You can preserve fertility on TRT via small dose of SERM.


#5

My previous blood works were on 9/15 and level was 704 ng/dL.
This was after PCT, so I assumed that I had recovered.

Could it be the oxy that is suppressing test so much? Could it also be stress/over-training/lack of sleep? I had a huge research deadline at the end of September, so I was really stressed.

Unless the gear was still in the system 2 months after last shot, and 4 weeks after PCT, I don’t see why my levels would be so high then, and so low just 6 weeks later.

Just to confirm, I have not been taking anything else since then.


#6

PS. results, with lab ranges


#7

getting bloodwork too soon after taking serms will show elevated testosterone


#8

what was your test at before starting any steroids?


#9

[quote]FirstCycleThrow wrote:
Hi everyone,

Just got my bloods back 3 months from 4th cycle (which was about 13 weeks) of Test/EQ. So this test was about 2 months after PCT. I ran Adex, HCG on cycle. Nolva 40/40/20/20/20 for PCT. No clomid.

I am really concerned with these numbers:

Test: 131 ng/dL
LH: 8.0 mIU/mL
FSH: 4.2 mIU/mL
Estradiol 22.6 pg/mL
Prolactin 15.2 ng/ml

Test seems very low. What is going on?

I feel like shit lately, but I have kept most of the gains from this cycle, and actually hit some PRs recently. Energy is very low though in general, and libido is shot.

My doctor only knows about the prolactin, and he recommends a pituitary MRI. I don’t disclose my steroid use, because I don’t want it on my medical file.

I was going to start a short cutting cycle from now until Christmas, but I am reconsidering this now.

I appreciate any advice.

[/quote]

can you post your actual cycle, to include doses, and when you started PCT?


#10

Such a drastic drop I do not understand unless bad labs. Perhaps another set of test few weeks from now to confirm?

I also don’t see pain killers and/or stress crashing you down that far.

Read the stickies in the T Replacement forum, especially The New Guys one. Carefully. Fill out all the information and ping KSman in his thread: KSman is here. Much more knowledgeable than anyone I’ve talked to here.

Goodluck.


#11

[quote]FirstCycleThrow wrote:
My previous blood works were on 9/15 and level was 704 ng/dL.
This was after PCT, so I assumed that I had recovered.

Could it be the oxy that is suppressing test so much? Could it also be stress/over-training/lack of sleep? I had a huge research deadline at the end of September, so I was really stressed.

Unless the gear was still in the system 2 months after last shot, and 4 weeks after PCT, I don’t see why my levels would be so high then, and so low just 6 weeks later.

Just to confirm, I have not been taking anything else since then.[/quote]

can you post all your other lab results from this visit as well?


#12

btw, from what i’ve read, if the opiods decreased your test, then LH and FSH should be low, as well.

http://www.inflexxion.com/uploadedFiles/Publications/Publications/Katz_2005_painmgt.pdf

EDIT: although it is worth noting, i’ve never had gyno in my entire life, and recently had a touch of it, and i had several surgeries this year (also a first for me), and opiod pain meds to follow, as well.


#13

Hi everyone,

Thanks for your thougthful replies.

Here are the complete lab works from a few days ago:

My last cycle was mid April to mid July. It was 13 weeks Test E (then switched to Sustanon, as they sent me the wrong vial). I did EQ for weeks 1-8 and then dropped it as my libido was shot. I did 400 mg test, then ramped it up gradually. Towards the end I was on around 700mg /week.

I took 2.5 weeks and then started PCT, which was Nolva 40/40/20/20/20. I took adex on cycle, and HCG. I did NOT refrigated the HCG, and yes I had to dilute it myself. But it was in a cool place, in a box under my bed. Do you think the HCG could have been ruined?

To give some more info, I felt great on cycle (except the low sex drive from EQ), and I had a very easy PCT, I never felt down or depressed. I kept eating big, and put on about 15 lbs total, but also a lot of body fat. Lifts went up and stayed up through PCT. In-fact just today I hit a new all time PR on squat (285 at 210 bw – not great, but squat is my weakest lift). The point is, my lifts have been progressing really well, even the last 2 months, and mentally I feel pretty ok, except poor sleep, and no sex drive.

The day I got the lab works done I slept for only 4 hours that night, and had been drinking the night before. AND as I said, I am on 40mg oxy. So… I know I may be wishful here. But what are the chances that this is the alcohol/stress/oxycontin/lack of sleep combined together to give a particularly low reading on that day?

I don;t want to convince myself of bullshit, if I fucked up my HPTA permanently that is my own fault, but I just want to remain positive here.

What is your advice going forward?


#14

You are right. This is what you should do.

Let’s use the simplest solution here before assuming you fucked up your hpta. Your lh and fsh levels don’t mean much if the problem with low test is being caused by other factors.

This is a possible reason.

  1. High prolactin.

Your doc probably suspects a pituitary tumor (prolactinoma). It is benign but causes high prolactin levels.

You can try caber for the time being.


#15

[quote]FirstCycleThrow wrote:
Hi everyone,

Thanks for your thougthful replies.

Here are the complete lab works from a few days ago:

My last cycle was mid April to mid July. It was 13 weeks Test E (then switched to Sustanon, as they sent me the wrong vial). I did EQ for weeks 1-8 and then dropped it as my libido was shot. I did 400 mg test, then ramped it up gradually. Towards the end I was on around 700mg /week.

I took 2.5 weeks and then started PCT, which was Nolva 40/40/20/20/20. I took adex on cycle, and HCG. I did NOT refrigated the HCG, and yes I had to dilute it myself. But it was in a cool place, in a box under my bed. Do you think the HCG could have been ruined?

To give some more info, I felt great on cycle (except the low sex drive from EQ), and I had a very easy PCT, I never felt down or depressed. I kept eating big, and put on about 15 lbs total, but also a lot of body fat. Lifts went up and stayed up through PCT. In-fact just today I hit a new all time PR on squat (285 at 210 bw – not great, but squat is my weakest lift). The point is, my lifts have been progressing really well, even the last 2 months, and mentally I feel pretty ok, except poor sleep, and no sex drive.

The day I got the lab works done I slept for only 4 hours that night, and had been drinking the night before. AND as I said, I am on 40mg oxy. So… I know I may be wishful here. But what are the chances that this is the alcohol/stress/oxycontin/lack of sleep combined together to give a particularly low reading on that day?

I don;t want to convince myself of bullshit, if I fucked up my HPTA permanently that is my own fault, but I just want to remain positive here.

What is your advice going forward?

[/quote]

well, here are a couple things about the cycle, off the top of my head:

-sustanon lasts a lot longer than most people think… i would suggest waiting 4 weeks between the cycle and PCT.
-i would also suggest running nolva at least 6 weeks… 20 mg/day is fine.
-i also suggest continuing your AI between your cycle and PCT… i don’t know if you did or not, but you do not want estrogen to spike here.
-i firmly believe that HCG does not need to run very much on cycle until the end. 500 IU a week, until the last 3 weeks, and end it at least a week prior to PCT.
-next time i’d add in ZMA and maybe even DAA in your PCT, as well.

however, i don’t think your HPTA is screwed up. your LH and FSH levels are decent, but your “T” is not.

i think you need to re-test your hormone profile, after a night of normal sleep and no booze. in all seriousness, that is actually the recipe for guys that want to influence a hormone test so they can test low, and get put on TRT (several athletes i know have done this). the oxy might be influencing this as well… i doubt you can eliminate that right now, though. (also, you mentioned being stressed at work and not getting much sleep, so this could be another factor to lower your test as well)

FWIW, here’s what i’d suggest next time:

Week 1-10:
Test (700 mg, or whatever you want to use here)
A-dex
HCG-500 IU/wk

Week 11-12:
Test (700 mg, or whatever you want to use here)
A-dex
HCG-500 IU/ EOD

Week 13:
A-dex
HCG-500 IU/ EOD

week 14:
A-dex

Week 15-20:
Nolva-20 mg

Or with Sustanon:

Week 1-12:
Sust (700 mg, or whatever you want to use here)
A-dex
HCG-500 IU/wk

Week 13-15:
A-dex
HCG-500 IU/ EOD

Week 16:
A-dex

Week 17-22:
Nolva-20 mg


#16

[quote]dt79 wrote:

You are right. This is what you should do.

Let’s use the simplest solution here before assuming you fucked up your hpta. Your lh and fsh levels don’t mean much if the problem with low test is being caused by other factors.

This is a possible reason.

  1. High prolactin.

Your doc probably suspects a pituitary tumor (prolactinoma). It is benign but causes high prolactin levels.

You can try caber for the time being. [/quote]

^i agree about the prolactin issue… i’d suggest letting the doc rule anything there out, before self-medicating.


#17

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:

[quote]dt79 wrote:

You are right. This is what you should do.

Let’s use the simplest solution here before assuming you fucked up your hpta. Your lh and fsh levels don’t mean much if the problem with low test is being caused by other factors.

This is a possible reason.

  1. High prolactin.

Your doc probably suspects a pituitary tumor (prolactinoma). It is benign but causes high prolactin levels.

You can try caber for the time being. [/quote]

^i agree about the prolactin issue… i’d suggest letting the doc rule anything there out, before self-medicating.[/quote]

Yes that would be best.


#18

What is really throwing me off is the amount of T you produce compared to the amount of LH stimulation your body is pumping out.

Yes, prolactin can be suppressive to HPTA but that should reflect lower LH as well. Your LH is on the high side. This leads me to think there is some desensitization of Leydig Cells in your testes for the reason beyond my understanding.

Or your test was bunk. Like cycobushmaster mentioned, I would take few days to relax and rest, get some good sleep and have your levels rechecked during morning hours (7-8am) when your levels should be the highest.


#19

[quote]Igs wrote:
What is really throwing me off is the amount of T you produce compared to the amount of LH stimulation your body is pumping out.

Yes, prolactin can be suppressive to HPTA but that should reflect lower LH as well. Your LH is on the high side. This leads me to think there is some desensitization of Leydig Cells in your testes for the reason beyond my understanding.

Or your test was bunk. Like cycobushmaster mentioned, I would take few days to relax and rest, get some good sleep and have your levels rechecked during morning hours (7-8am) when your levels should be the highest. [/quote]

^He’s not likely to be primary. Don’t scare him for no reason.