T Nation

Test Results Not Converting to Anything Sensible

I first saw the doctor back in February, was depressed, irritable, fatigued, that sort of thing. Got my blood work done and after saying everything was normal she tried to get me on antidepressants. I didn’t want to take them so I suggested it might be due to sleep apnea. This eventually led to me getting my tonsils removed in June, which helped my snoring but has done nothing for my mood. I just saw her again today and got her to print out my results for free testosterone, which is at 47.2 pmol/L. The listed range is 30-130 so obviously I’m at the lower end but when I try to convert 47.2 over to a useful measurement I’m getting .0472 nmol/L, which is just absurd. Has anyone else ever received their results in pmol/L, and if so how’d you convert it to a number you can actually reference?

Age:21
Height 6’
weight 230
Carry most of my weight lower down, thighs/pelvic region and also have what I’d consider breasts. Been like this since I was 12.
Body hair is limited, have a small section on my chest that has whispy hairs. Also the hairs on my legs and arms are completely clear with no coarseness. As far as facial hair I can grow sideburns, a neck beard, or my current goatee, but just the sparsest growth anywhere above my jawline.
Just started taking bupropion today.
Diet over this time has ranged from 3500+ calories in February to my current 2000ish of mostly carnivorous items. Was running SS in February and am now doing 5/3/1 attempting to drop down to 205.
I get an ache in the back edge of my left testicle from time to time, started last year in november when it lasted for over a month. Dr. diagnosed it as epidydimitis and prescribed antibiotics which I took til they ran out. Did absolutely nothing and the pain still recurs with no pattern, but the duration is usually less than a day.
Don’t actually remember the last time I woke up with an erection, maybe some time last week but its been getting less and less.

[quote]Tony238 wrote:
I first saw the doctor back in February, was depressed, irritable, fatigued, that sort of thing. Got my blood work done and after saying everything was normal she tried to get me on antidepressants. I didn’t want to take them so I suggested it might be due to sleep apnea. This eventually led to me getting my tonsils removed in June, which helped my snoring but has done nothing for my mood. I just saw her again today and got her to print out my results for free testosterone, which is at 47.2 pmol/L. The listed range is 30-130 so obviously I’m at the lower end but when I try to convert 47.2 over to a useful measurement I’m getting .0472 nmol/L, which is just absurd. Has anyone else ever received their results in pmol/L, and if so how’d you convert it to a number you can actually reference?

Age:21
Height 6’
weight 230
Carry most of my weight lower down, thighs/pelvic region and also have what I’d consider breasts. Been like this since I was 12.
Body hair is limited, have a small section on my chest that has whispy hairs. Also the hairs on my legs and arms are completely clear with no coarseness. As far as facial hair I can grow sideburns, a neck beard, or my current goatee, but just the sparsest growth anywhere above my jawline.
Just started taking bupropion today.
Diet over this time has ranged from 3500+ calories in February to my current 2000ish of mostly carnivorous items. Was running SS in February and am now doing 5/3/1 attempting to drop down to 205.
I get an ache in the back edge of my left testicle from time to time, started last year in november when it lasted for over a month. Dr. diagnosed it as epidydimitis and prescribed antibiotics which I took til they ran out. Did absolutely nothing and the pain still recurs with no pattern, but the duration is usually less than a day.
Don’t actually remember the last time I woke up with an erection, maybe some time last week but its been getting less and less.

[/quote]

Focus on looking for what is causing your T to drop . In younger guys its goes back to piss poor lifestyle choice and not getting the proper sleep. You tell me you sleep 6-8 hours a night sleep is not an issue…Going to smack you in head LOL People sleep but rarely get into the restorative sleep. Average male 20-25 gets about 1/2 -2 hours of quality sleep where they should be getting 4-5 hours. Our society is living sleep depreviation and its causing a shit load of issues I see on a daily basis. Once you get a person sleeping properly through lifestyle changes, modulating neurotransmitters and other factors, testosterone and cortisol in younger guys return to normal levels with in a few months in majority of the cases

Free testosterone is usually listed as pmol/l well mine is anyway. I think you want to know your total test that is referenced as nmol.

might have to call and ask for it

[quote]Hardasnails wrote:

Focus on looking for what is causing your T to drop . In younger guys its goes back to piss poor lifestyle choice and not getting the proper sleep. You tell me you sleep 6-8 hours a night sleep is not an issue…Going to smack you in head LOL People sleep but rarely get into the restorative sleep. Average male 20-25 gets about 1/2 -2 hours of quality sleep where they should be getting 4-5 hours. Our society is living sleep depreviation and its causing a shit load of issues I see on a daily basis. Once you get a person sleeping properly through lifestyle changes, modulating neurotransmitters and other factors, testosterone and cortisol in younger guys return to normal levels with in a few months in majority of the cases
[/quote]

Any suggestions on improving sleep? My room is blacked out and the TV is off half an hour before I go to bed, and I take melatonin. Also to the other poster they only tested me for free test, but the charts I’ve found for free test are in nmol/L, or ng/dl. Whent I convert pmol/L over to those my results are less than a quarter of the very lowest percentile.

[quote]Tony238 wrote:

[quote]Hardasnails wrote:

Focus on looking for what is causing your T to drop . In younger guys its goes back to piss poor lifestyle choice and not getting the proper sleep. You tell me you sleep 6-8 hours a night sleep is not an issue…Going to smack you in head LOL People sleep but rarely get into the restorative sleep. Average male 20-25 gets about 1/2 -2 hours of quality sleep where they should be getting 4-5 hours. Our society is living sleep depreviation and its causing a shit load of issues I see on a daily basis. Once you get a person sleeping properly through lifestyle changes, modulating neurotransmitters and other factors, testosterone and cortisol in younger guys return to normal levels with in a few months in majority of the cases
[/quote]

Any suggestions on improving sleep? My room is blacked out and the TV is off half an hour before I go to bed, and I take melatonin. Also to the other poster they only tested me for free test, but the charts I’ve found for free test are in nmol/L, or ng/dl. Whent I convert pmol/L over to those my results are less than a quarter of the very lowest percentile.[/quote]

I always thought that labs calculate free testosterone with the aid of SHBG,albumin,testosterone, in which case they should have all those readings.

or maybe they have a machine that spits out a free test number??

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:

I always thought that labs calculate free testosterone with the aid of SHBG,albumin,testosterone, in which case they should have all those readings.

or maybe they have a machine that spits out a free test number??

[/quote]
Just double checked my form, she didnt even mark to test my total test, just wrote in free test and insulin up in the corner under other tests. A little offended she thought I might be diabetic seeing as how nothing I told her had anything to do with that.

[quote]Tony238 wrote:

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:

I always thought that labs calculate free testosterone with the aid of SHBG,albumin,testosterone, in which case they should have all those readings.

or maybe they have a machine that spits out a free test number??

[/quote]
Just double checked my form, she didnt even mark to test my total test, just wrote in free test and insulin up in the corner under other tests. A little offended she thought I might be diabetic seeing as how nothing I told her had anything to do with that.[/quote]

I certainly wouldn’t take offense because she checked for diabetes. Today’s rate of obesity and diabetic cases is on the increase.

Doctors try to cover themselves. If you went two or three years down the road and were still using her as your primary physician, then she checked and saw you had 270 glucose reading and a 9.3 A1C you might have cause for a diabetes malpractice. Especially if you had nerve damage or lost a foot or lost nerve sensation in the penis.

Most primary physicians ARE NOT up to date with regards to men’s hormone therapy lab work. Some only check total testosterone. Your doc only checked free T but it’s rare that they also check cortisol levels or E2 or the host of other possible causes of low T such as adrenal fatigue.

After some more googling I’m about 95% sure I have gyneco, and have since I was 12. The wellbutrin might be doing something but I still can barely keep my eyes open and am yawning all day.

[quote]Tony238 wrote:
After some more googling I’m about 95% sure I have gyneco, and have since I was 12. The wellbutrin might be doing something but I still can barely keep my eyes open and am yawning all day.[/quote]

If your tired especially after meals that’s a sign of diabetes and may be the reason your doctor checked that.

If your glucose numbers are good (get a A1C which is a 3 month average)& you’ve had your tonsils removed then I would get another opinion in a sleep apnea study.

Anemia, deficiencies in key nutrients such as potassium or thyroid problems are also cause for excess sleepiness and fatigue.

Melatonin will help for insomnia, but it’s unlikely to improve your sleep architecture (ie, get you more deep sleep), which is essential for proper blood sugar regulation and a host of other things. As far as sleep aids are concerned, I’ve tried them all and have found Neurontin to be somewhat beneficial and pretty benign in terms of side effects (hangover, etc.). I loathe Ambien and its variants. Decent OTC options are Valerian and California Poppy.

However, if you have sleep apnea, those meds could exacerbate it, so be careful. Bottom line is you should try to get a sleep study done if you suspect apnea.

How long does it take you to fall asleep?
How many sleep disturbances do you have per night?
How rested do you feel when you wake up?
Do you eat or drink anything before bed?
Do you go to sleep when you are tired or whenever you feel like you need to go to sleep?

I use a ZEO sleep monitor. Its an EEG headband unit and when I wake up I place it on the charger/clock and get results from the night before. It tells how long I was in deep sleep, REM, and light sleep. It also tells how many times I was awaken and time until I was asleep. When you register online it has a sleep coaching option and that seems very helpful. Hope this helps when it comes to the whole sleep side of this discussion.

[quote]El Dingo wrote:
How long does it take you to fall asleep?
How many sleep disturbances do you have per night?
How rested do you feel when you wake up?
Do you eat or drink anything before bed?
Do you go to sleep when you are tired or whenever you feel like you need to go to sleep?

I use a ZEO sleep monitor. Its an EEG headband unit and when I wake up I place it on the charger/clock and get results from the night before. It tells how long I was in deep sleep, REM, and light sleep. It also tells how many times I was awaken and time until I was asleep. When you register online it has a sleep coaching option and that seems very helpful. Hope this helps when it comes to the whole sleep side of this discussion.[/quote]

How accurate are they? Is it exactly the same as the sleep study data, have you tried it when you went for a sleep study and compared to their results?

The reason I ask is we all know that those BodyFat scales are absolute crap, so I was wondering if this ZEO is just a gimmick or the real deal?

[quote]iroczinoz wrote:

[quote]El Dingo wrote:
How long does it take you to fall asleep?
How many sleep disturbances do you have per night?
How rested do you feel when you wake up?
Do you eat or drink anything before bed?
Do you go to sleep when you are tired or whenever you feel like you need to go to sleep?

I use a ZEO sleep monitor. Its an EEG headband unit and when I wake up I place it on the charger/clock and get results from the night before. It tells how long I was in deep sleep, REM, and light sleep. It also tells how many times I was awaken and time until I was asleep. When you register online it has a sleep coaching option and that seems very helpful. Hope this helps when it comes to the whole sleep side of this discussion.[/quote]

How accurate are they? Is it exactly the same as the sleep study data, have you tried it when you went for a sleep study and compared to their results?

The reason I ask is we all know that those BodyFat scales are absolute crap, so I was wondering if this ZEO is just a gimmick or the real deal?[/quote]

Im a research assistant and we have 10 that are used for research in my lab so I get to use it for free. Here is a link to a validation study:
www.myzeo.com/sleep/validation

I have a Zeo. I believe it’s useful but it has limitations. You have to make sure the sensor is on really tight and that it’s clean. I mean immaculate. If you’re on any medications it will likely alter the readings. My Zeo has a big problem with false wakes, among other things. It is certainly not “diagnostic tool,” as the company takes great pains to specify.

[quote]Cygnus X-1 wrote:
I have a Zeo. I believe it’s useful but it has limitations. You have to make sure the sensor is on really tight and that it’s clean. I mean immaculate. If you’re on any medications it will likely alter the readings. My Zeo has a big problem with false wakes, among other things. It is certainly not “diagnostic tool,” as the company takes great pains to specify. [/quote]

How old is yours? I have never had any problems and the one that I use is around 2 years old now. However, we also get free replacement sensors so we only use one sensor for a few months. All the studies that use them also have fresh sensors.

I now have more complete test results.
Estradiol 101 pmol/L (<200)
Test AM 18.4nmol/L (10.3-29.5)
Prolactin 5.7 ug/L (<21)
Progesterone 1.9 nmol/L (3.0)
Cortisol 401 nmol/L (120-620)
FSH 2.9 U/L (<7)
LH 5.9 U/L (<12)

Not taking the wellbutrin anymore, walked around all day grinding my teeth and eventually culminated in me crying for the first time since I was 13. The Dr who signed off on this test suggested cushings after seeing me with my shirt off. This test doesnt suggest it but It sounds like I may get to see a specialist.

What was the Wellbutrin dose?