T Nation

Test Results: Low T, Low Free T, High E


#1

Hi,
Test results are back.

Total T 213
Free T 5.6
Estrogen 106...

Doctor prescribed Androgel... retest in 6 weeks...

22.5% BF most fat upper thighs to lowest rib.

Inflammation issues (tendons in left arm, and plantar Fasciitis in left foot)...
Ideas?


#2

Take lots of fish oil and vitamin D.

Age???

Test thyroid TSH, free T3 and free T4. If you have low thyroid levels, you will not absorb transdermal T.

What is the range for estrogen?
Estradiol=E2 or total estrogens [bogus]

If E is high, then transdermals will make this worse.

Any signs of gyno?

cholesterol?
DHEA-S

Did you talk about HPTA shutdown and fertility - testicular atrophy?


#3

[quote]KSman wrote:
Take lots of fish oil and vitamin D.

Age???

Test thyroid TSH, free T3 and free T4. If you have low thyroid levels, you will not absorb transdermal T.

What is the range for estrogen?
Estradiol=E2 or total estrogens [bogus]

If E is high, then transdermals will make this worse.

Any signs of gyno?

cholesterol?
DHEA-S

Did you talk about HPTA shutdown and fertility - testicular atrophy?
[/quote]

Like ksman said more information needs to be known. jumping on TRT I have found is the wrong step for alot of people. There are many Dr’s that just look at testosterone and compleltely forget about the other hormones that impact testosterone indirectly such as the thyroid and adrenals. One needs to look at lifestyle, nutritional content and balance of diet, sleep hygiene, current stress (emotional, physical, chemical). Alot of Dr’s are pure lazy and play fill the tank with hormones making matters worse. Your dr is not a HRT DR. If you are in the northeastern united states DR Overbeck and my self deal with all these issue, In the mid west Dr Crisler, and west coast DR Mariano


#4

Thank you guys!

I’m 43, 6’ 255 about 22.5% bf. My weight bounces between 245 and 255… High stress life, I have done what I can to eliminate, reduce, cope… Working to get better coping skills. I live in Raleigh…

My Doctor is normal GP. She’s young, open minded, and wants to help. But not knowledgeable about TRT /HRT, particularly in males…

I asked for tests, not complete panel, more like piece meal. Adrenals and Thyroid as well as PSA are in next lot taken last Thursday.

I do take Fish oil, and/or Flax seed. I’m upping it to around 20 grams as some have reported it being as effective in reducing pain from tendon issues… I don’t tolerate high doses of NSAIDS for very long at all. I was supplementing Vitamin D but I now drink a gallon a day of skim milk to help get protein and carb requirements… I am/was insulin resistant. Fasting test comes out at 88, but eat carbs in any meaningful amount and I fall asleep unless I’m depleted. I don’t think the glucose tolerance test is worth ingesting that much sugar to confirm.

I think the E test was total.

DHEA-s was not tested.

Cholesterol was low, decent ratios.

No real signs of gyno. I was rather fat before I started getting back into shape, so some deposits in pecs, but they are small and shrinking. Most fat is carried around the belt and inner upper thighs.

No talk of any other hormones except potential for E conversion, which I brought up.

3 days on Androgel and started to feel better subjectively. Better mood, sleep, libido, less bummed out. Flashes of long dormant motivation…

I worked out heavy twice after 2 weeks off. I upped weights a little, everything felt heavy, much more then the actual increase. Working out felt hard. A number of misses. I am sore as crap. Pecs seem harder, I hit them as hard as I could. Tris and bis also hit hard and are very sore. Tendons held up and are not sore…

If I understand what I read, it seems that some people have an initial response to topical T for a while before the other factors muck things up. With that in mind, I have decided to try and take advantage of this potential window to clean up diet, and increase workouts via higher weight, even if I lose volume.


#5

Hi guys,
I need some advice… Trying top piece stuff together, but there’s a lot out there…

About a month into Androgel I started having feelings of profound sadness without cause.

Went to doctor. She cut the Androgel from 4 pumps / day to 2… Ordered new tests.

Sadness went away replaced by occasional anxiety.

I just received test results, and see Dr in Thursday to discuss.

LABCORP

Serum test 524 range 241-827
Free test 11.9 range 6.8-21.5
DHEA 722 range 107-745
Estrodial 32 range <52

Thoughts?


#6

E2 could have been kicking your ass. Remember that T–>E2 can occur in the skin. With a-gel, you cover a large area of the skin and more E2 is created. With compounded 20% T cream, less is applied and to a smaller area of skin. That limits E2 to some extent.

But what dose of T does the lab results measure?

FT levels on transdermal T can change a lot by the hour. When was lab result done relative to application. FT levels can be much steadier with injections in terms of hour by hour, and steady day to day with frequent injections.

Your DHEA is high… supplements?
No hCG or Arimidex/anastrozole?


#7

THANK YOU!

The dose was 4 pumps… test was about 4 hours after application…

I will push for HRT protocol next Thursday or get new doctor by seeking referral from local HRT friendly compounding pharmacy.

I will push for self injections.

Supplements:
Multi-vitamin
usually some D and B-complex…
lots of fish oil

Sometimes Melatonin at night

Reading leads me to think my insulin resistance is part of this, maybe cause, maybe symptom or both…
Leads me to believe that I will be injecting something if I don’t get this right… I would rather HRT then insulin.

I also worry about secondary exposure to my little girl and my GF… I probably worry too much about it…

Thryoids (all) have been checked repeatedly over the years as well as current due to family traits. I have always come back ok…

? why is the range for serum t at 847? is it age normalized? I thought range went up to 1100?


#8

Oh…

Appointment this Thursday was just another test. Dosage cut to 2 pumps. But felt worse then I started this.

When dosage first lowered felt a lot of anxiety. Still some unusual sadness. Can’t think, focus, or remember shit. all motivation fled and libido went through the floor.

I called and am back on 4 pumps started yesterday, libido is up, energy hasn’t returned, but outlook is improved.

Missed a lift yesterday. No energy.

Book ordered…

Oh, is it true that physiological dosages won’t cause shrinkage? I’m uh, sore most of the time… less on 2 pumps?


#9

KSMAN:
I received and read the book… Zinc and Saw Palmetto are mentioned as having AI properties rather safely. What are your thoughts on their effectiveness?

thx,
Mike


#10

TRT will shut down your testes. Amount and speediness of shrinkage varies.

The book predates use of Anastrozole. Zinc and Saw Palmetto will not typically work well or achieve optimal levels. There are no safety issues with Anastrozole when dosed properly.

You should have some zinc in your daily vit+mineral supplements.

Saw Palmetto can be part of a product taken for prostate health. Also reduces DHT in the prostate, and perhaps systemically.

Transdermal T creates the highest E and DHT levels compared to other delivery systems. GEls are applied to large surface areas and that has greater effects compared to strong creams applied to smaller areas.


#11

TRT will shut down your testes. Amount and speediness of shrinkage varies.

The book predates use of Anastrozole. Zinc and Saw Palmetto will not typically work well or achieve optimal levels. There are no safety issues with Anastrozole when dosed properly.

You should have some zinc in your daily vit+mineral supplements.

Saw Palmetto can be part of a product taken for prostate health. Also reduces DHT in the prostate, and perhaps systemically.

Transdermal T creates the highest E and DHT levels compared to other delivery systems. GEls are applied to large surface areas and that has greater effects compared to strong creams applied to smaller areas.


#12

Cool…

I get transient PMS like symptoms and thermal regulation issues with a-gel and e2 of 30.

Doctor is willing to change to whatever I can get documents to support. She wants to help and understand. Working o n collection of docs and wanted to finish book.

Will gather documents and deliver to her soon. I will snarf you references and a few of your comments, and other references.

Saw the book was published in 1998…
Thoughts on pellets?