T Nation

Test Replacement


Just as a open discussion. I started on therapy with the gel, like a lot of folks. Like a lot of folks it worked at first and then stopped working. My GP put me on injections. At first 1 cc every 14 days. Well of course after about day 9 I crashed. So I moved myself to .5 cc every 7 days and it really seems to be working well.

My GP did not want to talk about e2 numbers or free test, so I went to a In Shape MD place here in town and talked to the doctor there. He took another blood sample and found my injection schedule and T numbers to be good all the way around. However, he thought my E2 was elevated.

So he replaced my test script with test cyp that has an estrogen blocker in the injection. I had never heard of this or heard anyone talk about it but thought it was great to hear. Has anyone else been able to get this? He was willing to put me on HGC but it was very expensive, very! So i am thinking about going off the rails and ordering it on my own. I have noticed atrophy in my testicles and a considerable decrease in ejaculate.

I am 39 and my wife and I have a great sex life and as vain as it is, the loss of ejaculate volume has been a little disturbing to me. Any thoughts guys?

Protocol is this
1 .5cc injection test cyp 200mg every 7 days (estrogen blocker included in injection)

I plan to add 1 250iu HGC injection 2 days before test, and 250iu the day following test.


Alright so here are my actual numbers. Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Protocol right now is .5ml every third day
250 IU's of HCG every other day.
1ml (?) tablet per week

here re my numbers

WBC 6.4
RBC 5.37
Hemoglobin 15.7
hematocrit 47.2
MCV 88
MCH 29.2
MCHC 33.3
RDW 14.2
Platelets 259
Neutrophils 61
Lymphs 27
Monocytes 8
Eos 3
Basos 1
Nuetrophils 3.9 (absolute)
Lymphs 1.8 (absolute)
Monocytes .5 (absolute)
Eos .2 (Absolute)
Baso 0.0 (absolute)
Immature Granuloctes 0
Immature Grans 0.0 (abs)
Testosterone Surem 1144 (24 hours from last .5 ml injection)
Estradiol 26.1
PSA 1.1

The only thing that makes sense to me is the serum, Estradiol, and PSA #. Everything else is like japanese math.
What can you guys tell me?


The Japanese math as you call it is just a CBC and differential(complete blood count and white blood cell counts). Everything looks typical and you aren't anemic. The main things to watch on Testosterone are your hematocrit because it's common to have increased levels on T though usually on abuse levels. Anything past 52% and you start risking abnormal coagulation which could lead to stroke, heart attack, lung and kidney damage etc... PSA levels since you have a baseline and they look good shouldn't really matter unless you see a sudden rise of a full point or more (1.1 jumping to 2.X) OR if you get anything above a 4. Some people naturally have higher levels of PSA.


Yeah, the doctor seemed to like where I was at and didn't change anything. He said to keep up what I was doing. He did say that after a year or so that the hemoglobin count could increase and that taking some some blood would correct that. I feel so much better than before treatment. The one think that I wish I had done was from the very start was go to a T replacement specialist. I started with my family doctor and we used gel for a year and it worked for a little while then stopped. He would not check my E2 numbers or free T numbers. I started having symptoms, testicular apathy and very low to nonexistent ejaculate. Thats when I changed and the T doctor immediately saw my E2 numbers were high and adjusted everything.

Once I started in HCG I will say that it took a couple months for my symptoms to reverse. It is better now.

In fact the doctor told me that it was not a bad idea to cycle off T for a couple weeks and just do EOD HCG injections to keep those symptoms very minimal. I worry about crashing. However last week I took a break for an entire week and and I actually saw some improvement.

So far so good.


Please read the advice for new guys sticky AND protocol for injections sticky
-- your labs captured a peak level, not very useful
---- results are more a function of timing
-- inject divided doses at least twice per week
-- do labs always 1/2 way between injections

There is no need to combine T+AI, but I have see this done before.

Describe your doses in mg's, not volumes, not all T has same concentrations.

It would be helpful to have info about you, we do not even know your age and that does matter. We see that docs very often get things wrong. See concerns in the advice for new guys sticky.