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Test Prop from Syno

I know that this has been discussed, I have done the searches on this site and read some answers, just looking for some more input.

I recently did a fina and syno conversion, the fina was real easy and looks great. The syno I had some issues with, its was not that hard of a process if you follow it correctly, but the finished product is cloudy. I have heated it in the oven as suggested and it turns a great clear golden color, but the will become cloudy again hours later.

I have read that you can fix it by re-filtering. I am assuming this means re-filter with a whatman and not re-filter with cloth/coffee filter.

Any other ideas or suggestions would be great cause I don’t want to lose this…

[quote]TheBus wrote:
I know that this has been discussed, I have done the searches on this site and read some answers, just looking for some more input.

I recently did a fina and syno conversion, the fina was real easy and looks great. The syno I had some issues with, its was not that hard of a process if you follow it correctly, but the finished product is cloudy. I have heated it in the oven as suggested and it turns a great clear golden color, but the will become cloudy again hours later.

I have read that you can fix it by re-filtering. I am assuming this means re-filter with a whatman and not re-filter with cloth/coffee filter.

Any other ideas or suggestions would be great cause I don’t want to lose this…[/quote]

try refiltering it thru a sterial whatman.

if that dosent work,then it may be that you didnt dry your powder enough.

the first time I made it I trashed it because it didnt look right but the steps you follow is.

vent with a slin pin and place in oven.
refilter thru whatman
if its still cloudy then do again like that untill its not and after a few trys just sit back and retrace steps and if you cant figure the source toss it and start over its cheap enough to scrap a project.

did you use the estro magic fluid stuff in a kit?
if you dont mind posting up your recipe I can pretty much show ya why its still cloudy.

Basically…

  1. Pellets in Heet
  2. Filtered and rinsed filter with Heet
  3. Added estro solubilizer
  4. Dripped 500ml distilled water to make crystals, contraption took about 1.5-2 hours
    (at this point the solution sat for around 3 hours)
  5. Filtered crystals and rinsed with 2 gallons distilled water
  6. Dried out for about 24 hours
    (my first batch I tried the oven theory and all my nice white clumps melted into the filter)
  7. Added dried powder to oil, and mixed well
  8. At this point it was cloudy, heated it in the oven and it became clear
  9. Filtered through whatman into new vial

I should also mention that one odd thing was when I added the estro ‘magic’ it became a pale yellow, but my crystals were always nice and bright white

Now my solution is cloudy and only looks clear when I take it out of the oven

[quote]TheBus wrote:
Basically…

  1. Pellets in Heet
  2. Filtered and rinsed filter with Heet
  3. Added estro solubilizer
  4. Dripped 500ml distilled water to make crystals, contraption took about 1.5-2 hours
    (at this point the solution sat for around 3 hours)
  5. Filtered crystals and rinsed with 2 gallons distilled water
  6. Dried out for about 24 hours
    (my first batch I tried the oven theory and all my nice white clumps melted into the filter)
  7. Added dried powder to oil, and mixed well
  8. At this point it was cloudy, heated it in the oven and it became clear
  9. Filtered through whatman into new vial

I should also mention that one odd thing was when I added the estro ‘magic’ it became a pale yellow, but my crystals were always nice and bright white

Now my solution is cloudy and only looks clear when I take it out of the oven
[/quote]

for future ref. the “magic stuff” is rumored to be lye.
if it is or not I a not sure.

how warm was the oven,I suspect that the reason why it melted was because the estrodil,which has a lower melting point wasnt all removed.

now with that said I suspect that its just moisture left from the rinsing. hopefully you rinsed all the chemical out of it. I rinse mine with alot more than 2 gallons I am real picky though. you did it just as the old instructions on the net say.

I dont like using the these magic chemicals because the basic premis of it is that you have 2 different esters.
prop and benzoate
now it cleaves the benzoate ester off first making the E water soluable leaving the prop ester.
if it sits too long it cleaves off the prop ester making the test also water soluable and you waste product.or you end up with a mix of test prop and test Susp.

if it dosen’t sit long enough then it dosen’t cleave off the benzoate ester and you still have E in the mix.

sorry for rambling but I do think you just didnt dry it long enough its a common problem if your sure about your method and want to risk it I dont see right off any mistakes.

Nich what is your preferred method for syno conversion?

mine is a simple Recrystallization.

add pellets to heet.filter to make a clear liquid
I used a reusable coffee filter and then the clear liquid thru a .45um whatman
drip ice cold water slowly to make crystals,rinse with alot of ice water.

allow to dry for 2-3 days,do a melting point test,match up with melting point of pure prop if actual temp is too low add heet turn it back to liquid. add more ice water.
keep doing that untill melting point is up to par then add to plain oil first

filter through smallest whatman you can buy,mine was a .22um
then add BB and BA and then refilter into sterial vials.

overall it took me about a week or so to brew but I am sure I did it right cause i am into my second cycle with the same results as Pharm grade prop,less pain though

EDIT: the reason why I added it to oil first is because the remaining estridil is less soulable in oil than the test prop,so alot of whats left gets filtered out.
in theory anyways.

Good deal, sounds like what testolius posted about combining Dazed’s selective recrystalization method with Bill Roberts advice about the oil only.

[quote]Scott M wrote:
Good deal, sounds like what testolius posted about combining Dazed’s selective recrystalization method with Bill Roberts advice about the oil only. [/quote]

I didnt want to name names but Testolius is who I got it from and it worked great so yes I take no credit for this at all he was a huge help,made it simple as making a cake.

I also may add I found I had to sit with a dropper and put the water in drop by drop,because once it stopped turning into crystals I had to stop adding water.
and this was at different amounts each time.

I am hoping it is just moisture, I was afraid to dry in the oven again. I think I had a good yield but my oven is ‘hit and miss’.

I know I should of just purchased an oven thermometer.

SO…plan is to vent and heat, I’m thinkng 250 for 45min??, then refilter into new vial.

If it comes out cloudy I’m gonna toss it and mark it down to learning.

Next time I will make sure I dry completely and also use selective recrystallization instead of the estro solubilizer.

The first conversion was rough, next ones will be smoother

[quote]TheBus wrote:
I am hoping it is just moisture, I was afraid to dry in the oven again. I think I had a good yield but my oven is ‘hit and miss’.

I know I should of just purchased an oven thermometer.

SO…plan is to vent and heat, I’m thinkng 250 for 45min??, then refilter into new vial.

If it comes out cloudy I’m gonna toss it and mark it down to learning.

Next time I will make sure I dry completely and also use selective recrystallization instead of the estro solubilizer.

The first conversion was rough, next ones will be smoother [/quote]

do a search you can find the exact recipe for my method from the names above,its very simple .

if it comes out cloudy again I saw on other boards where people pinned it anyways and it was fine just make sure it dosn’t crash.
me personally I would toss it if I could afford it

but my gear has to be perfect.

I tossed a vial for having a smal peice of the stopper in it from 20g pins.
and also I tossed another vial for droppin it on the floor and causing a very small crack.

update:
I vented the test prop and heated for a while, re-filtered and currently am looking at some beautiful clear yellow test!!!

Thanks Nich

[quote]TheBus wrote:
update:
I vented the test prop and heated for a while, re-filtered and currently am looking at some beautiful clear yellow test!!!

Thanks Nich[/quote]

give it some time make sure no crystals fall to the bottom and it stays clear

if it does over next couple days go for it
then go for it

For future reference, When a solution ‘crashes’ and the solute falls, can you fix that or is it trashed?

Seems like it only happens if too much powder for the solvent, could you just add oil, BA, BB and heat and filter?

[quote]TheBus wrote:
For future reference, When a solution ‘crashes’ and the solute falls, can you fix that or is it trashed?

Seems like it only happens if too much powder for the solvent, could you just add oil, BA, BB and heat and filter?[/quote]

when it crashes,usually its because you are trying to make it too high a concentration.

the solvent and oil is not keeping the powder suspended.

I like to have a 60ml vial of premixed oil,bb and ba.
so if it crashes you just filter and add clean oil to the crashed product.

adding oil and solvent into an already made mix is a pain with the numbers,for me anyways.

but ya you can try that and if not trash it and make more.

thats why I love syno
its cheap and so damned hands on.

[quote]TheBus wrote:
For future reference, When a solution ‘crashes’ and the solute falls, can you fix that or is it trashed?

Seems like it only happens if too much powder for the solvent, could you just add oil, BA, BB and heat and filter?[/quote]

Prop seems to just barely hold in warm oil at 100mg/ml. Many times after it cools down, it crashes.

Rather than heat the entire vial everytime I want to draw a syringe full, I just add a little bit more BB…maybe 1ml at a time (ie add 1 ml BB, see if it holds, if it doesn’t, add another ml, and so forth…usually 3ml extra BB per 50ml of crashing soln does the trick)

FWIW - I just add the BB straight from the vial it comes in…it’s supposed to be pharm grade anyway and I understand it is mildly antiseptic, so I don’t waste a whatman on just another couple mls BB.

oh yeah - be sure to dilute with BB NOT BA, otherwise I will probably hear you scream from here!

haha

interesting

Good info here…
If I may ask another question, Would you guys recommend using an estro solubilizer AND the selective recrystal method, or skip buying the kit and just buy raw material and use the selective method??

I guess if doing multiple conversions, getting larger amounts of products instead of kits would be the way to go.

There is no reason to use a solubulizer. Supersat recrystallization is much better and leaves you with a cleaner product.

B

[quote]brundel wrote:
There is no reason to use a solubulizer. Supersat recrystallization is much better and leaves you with a cleaner product.

B[/quote]