Test Prop for Shorter Cycle (Less Shutdown Time), Opinions?

Pharma / TRT
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Hi everyone. Been lurking the forums for awhile :slight_smile:
About to do my first cycle, however this is more intriguing question as having a slightly different approach to my first cycle.
21 years old, 5’8 178lbs just finished a mini cut sitting around 10% or under.
Been training for 7 years, but seriously so really learning nutrition and proper training consistently for nearly 4.
Want to take a very smart approach to my first cycle.

Cycle:
Wk 1-8 Test Prop @100mg EOD
Wk 9 Come off Test
Wk 10-13 Nolva at 40/40/20/20

Will have Arimadex on hand just in case but rather not use if not needed.
Reason for Test Prop is so it hits me fast and i would rather do a shorter cycle so less shutdown time. Less endocrine system risk in the long run. (Although a cycle simple and basic like this would be very minimal risks). I understand downside is more frequent pinning and have heard PIP frm prop hurts alot more? but to my understanding alot claim this is due to UGL stuff not being brewed optimally.

Also to note all my gear is Pharma so no UGL shiz :wink:

Greatly appreciate anyone’s feedback and advice. Constructive criticism is greatly appreciated too!

Thank you.

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I’m too old to have kids. When I can, I’ll take propionate every other to every 3rd day depending on the budget as long as possible.

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what does that have to do with my cycle HAHA, cheers for that.

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bump can anyone give opinion on the cycle? Also been hearing very conflicting things about PCT, newbie guide suggests Nolva at 40/20/20/20 i see alot of other forums saying so too just nolva at 40/40/20/20 or so but then TONS of others saying clomid is a must, alot of experienced users tell me clomid is a must too…so without on-hand experience its hard to decide. Any suggestions? either way i have both on hand.

Thanks!!!

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Sounds like you are doing pretty well as a natural, I’d probably wait until I was 25 or over when your natty test has peaked. It really depends on what your broader life goals are.
You could see how you go with the prop. Prop stings like shit and is not what I would recommend for a first cycle, but it effects people differently so see how you go. My stuff is homebrewed, and it still stings like a motherfucker. A good anabolic with results, if you aren’t effected by the pain, or you are able to tough it out.
Also 100mg EOD is not much by itself. It might work okay for some people, others might need a bigger dose 125mg-150mg EOD. I don’t really like adex as I find it hard to get the balance between not enough and too much. Nolvadex on cycle is a good alternative if you start to get itchy nipples.
If it wasn’t your first cycle I would stack it with an oral anabolic, eg anavar, dbol, winstrol. Not a good idea to start off with 2 or more different steroids because if you get neg sides you won’t really know which drug is the cause.

1 Like
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you’ll find that older lifters are generally the clomid proponents. Also, there are less informed opinions on a lot of forums outside of Tnation. The nolva-only protocol is superior to nolva+clomid, hands down.

I disagree with beyond: i say go for it. if you’re as lean as you suggest, at that height and bodyweight, you’ve done well for yourself, and you’re likely approaching your natural limits.

I’ve never run prop, and wouldn’t recommend it for a first cycle. i’ve run other compounds that have to be injected EOD, and it’s really annoying. There’s nothing inherently wrong with running prop, but you could run cyp or enth for 8 weeks and still see great results. it will take longer to hit, but it will keep working longer too, so it all ends up being similar at the end of the day. total test used is total test used. similar shutdown.

I would add in an oral like dbol, winstrol or anavar if you’re up for it, for the first 4 weeks of the cycle. I did it for my first cycle, and have run orals in every cycle since then. I believe orals are where the real magic happens. my preferred selection is dbol. makes you feel great, gains come immediately. its an awesome compound.

so basically i disagree with beyond a bunch here. lol. but i respect his opinion, just dont share it.

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Thank you for your response, yea i understand but i don’t think you do one cycle at 21 with proper procedures (i understand there are still risks) that you just destroy your HPTA and mess up your endocrine for life. I understand the risks but i feel to get to being competitive, obv you have to start earlier but being smart about it not abusing it, therefore i did not include a second compound. I think i make decent gains right now but i think a little test can take me a long way even 350mg/wk should give pretty significant gains.

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Thanks for your response flip! Appreciate it.

Hmm i did consider dbol, im a big advocate for strength training as i believe it is crucial for naturals, ive nvr done 1RM testing as hypertrophy is my goal but my lifts are at bench 245lbsx6, squat 315x5 and i don’t do deads lol. I think the dbol can help but my concern is dosing the Ai, If i run dbol it will be minimal so say 30mg ED for 4 weeks, however not sure how much to dose the adex, do i go .5 eod while on the dbol then taper off to .25 eod? and run the Ai up till PCT. Now another conflicting note i have seen is should i still be running Ai so say .5 e3d of adex even during PCT or just stop all out day out frm PCT.

Appreciate you guys response :slight_smile: i will include some recent pics too so maybe you can understand where im starting at. If all is good and i get more opinions i can start next Monday :smiley:

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if you’re going into it with THIS mindset, you’ve got a problem. What you’re saying here can absolutely happen, and I’ve seen it. You definitely can crash your HTPA and end up on TRT for life, after just one cycle. Just something to be aware. It’s probably more common than you think.

Also, there is no such thing as ‘just one cycle’. You’ll likely be planning your next cycle before you’re even done with your first. You need to be really honest with yourself, and you need to understand what this life is actually like. Just a fair warning :slight_smile:

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Ty for that good piece of advice. Yes indeed, something to really consider but i think at this point it is something im ready to get into because i knew its always a matter of when not if. I think its a pure fact but alot of pros dont just get by starting TRT when they are in their late 20s. Thank you again for your constructive advice, i really appreciate it.

Also food for thought but once you get back up to normal T levels after PCT, say couple weeks after do you continue making gains as a natural? so the same 2-3lbs of muscle per year (is what i generally been putting on in terms of LBM), or are you permenantly “slightly” enchanced with a natural higher base T idk just wondered…ofc it is very individualized but just wanting an opinion :slight_smile:

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Lol, No worries Flip.

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What do you mean by prop hurts alot? Obviously i have not pinned before but people reckon drawing blood hurts more than pinning with a 23g and i don’t really think drawing blood hurts much at all. The prop i have is pharma grade too. also @flipcollar i do want to do this first cycle as a means to “take it to the next level”, by no means do i think ive completely milked out all natural gains but i want to be competing at hopefully a pro level in 2019/2020, while i still do want to have kids and of course want to do this as safe as possible and live a long healthy life. Most bb’ers are in good health and have kids even in their late 40s and 50s and thats with BnCing for 20 over years. also i know that bloodwork mid-cycle is the only way to dial in my Adex dose, but in the mean time since prop kicks in right away, would dosing at 0.5mg(half tab) every 3.5days (Tues,Fri) work? Then if gyno symptoms appear could possibly add in Nolva on cycle to reverse it (40 first week, 20mg all the way up till end of PCT). Included current pics too just to show where im at. @flipcollar

Imgur

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it would be nice if it worked that way. But it works the opposite way.

First off, you almost certainly won’t be fully recovered after 2 weeks. That would be unusual. Expect it to take at least a month for full recovery, if you even get that. More than likely, you’ll recover to about 90%, and never really get better than that.

You’re going to lose all your gains from your cycle eventually, if you don’t run future cycles. You won’t ‘keep gaining the way you have been for years’. Those days will be over. I’m surprised you weren’t aware of this. This is, of course, assuming you’re close to your natural limit. If you happen to have a very high natural limit, this won’t be the case, but most people will run a cycle, lose some gains in PCT, and not really make progress until their next cycle. If you can even MAINTAIN your gains post-cycle, you’ll have done better than most people.

I’ll also address your question about blood draw vs. pinning.

blood drawing doesnt hurt at all. pinning hurts, especially when you’re new to it. and ESPECIALLY prop. think about it. blood drawing just stings when you stick the needle in. That’s nothing. When you pin yourself with steroids, you’re introducing a foreign substance in your body. It can create knots, it can crystallize in the muscle before being absorbed, you might hit a nerve, etc. it’s an IM injection, not IV. There’s nothing to compare between the two things. A lot of people experience flu-like symptoms following their first couple injections.

Finally… your assertion that ‘most bbers are in good health in their 40s and 50s’ is not necessarily accurate. I’m not sure how you came to this conclusion. This is not a healthy sport, my man. I think you’re looking at it through rose colored glasses. A lot of bbers may project a healthy life, but that’s just not usually the case behind the curtain, so to speak.

EDIT: Just to add to this, I just pulled up your picture. Nice work naturally, you look fucking great. You’ve definitely got potential.

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14

Cheers. Use the prop and enjoy it. You’re gonna shut down. There’s nothing you can do unless you concurrently use HCG. You’ll lose most of your gains anyway.

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Prop unlike most other steroids stings when you inject it(Primobolan does as well). Even after injection, the site can be quite painful for a few days. Not anything that would stop you from doing a workout though. If it doesn’t agree with you, it can cause mild headaches as well. High frequency of injections needed with prop means, as soon as you get over the pain from the last injection, you need to do another one.
Pharma grade gear may be better for negative side effects. However I think some of problem is unavoidable due to the high molecular weight of prop. I started off with 100mg/ml, after one cycle found it quite painful. Next cycle I thought a dilution might help, so I brewed some 50mg/ml Prop.
I found it didn’t make any difference to pain. I had to inject 2mls to get the same amount, so it equals out pretty much.
Then you got all the issues that Flip mentioned, about virgin muscle, and inexperience with administering injections, which can lead to extra pain. Just something to be aware of.

Everyone reacts slightly differently to the same drugs. At the extremes some people don’t react well to certain drugs, other people will have no problems at all. You won’t know until you try. In all likelihood you will probably be able to tolerate it, its just you won’t have the same issues with most other steroids.

Ditto about your good potential for the sport.

1 Like
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Thanks for the feedback! I don’t see why i should lost most of my gains? shouldn’t I still be progressing even after this one cycle? obviously not at the same rate of when i was on cycle…but diet/training is and always will be at a 100%. Shouldn’t my rate of muscle building be where i was usually before cycle etc.

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Thank you for your kind words and feedback! Appreciate it, however

After PCT, wouldn’t i continue making gains as a natural? Obviously not at the same rate on cycle, but so your saying say i put on 5lbs of muscle on cycle, come off, lose maybe half of that, and just continue looking exactly the same? Even if i was to continue training natural id think ill constantly progress obviously at a slower rate as i get closer to my natural limit. But what i mean is wouldn’t i continue making gains as i would naturally regardless if i did the cycle or not? So as long as after PCT, diet/training at a 100%, i will just continue progressing as before i did the cycle. Yea true, maybe im being abit naive about the sport but of course there are risks that you have to be willing to take to go far.

Thanks again for your feedback! Would be great to get more advice :slight_smile:

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Thanks for the response man!

Hmm the pain sorta pushes me away from using prop…however will be only doing 8 weeks so i don’t think TestE would be the best choice?
Also any ideas about using an Ai during PCT? most say just use it up till PCT but some say u might rebound in estro during PCT so it will be wise to use say .25mg ED during PCT or something. Regardless will be using Nolva n clomid 40/20/20/20 n 100/50/50/50

Thanks for your feedback too :slight_smile:

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I personally don’t use AI during PCT. Serms like clomid and nolva, have an antiestrogenic effect it just works a bit differently than a true AI. They should be plenty strong enough for the relatively small amount of test you would have been taking on cycle.

What you could do, is use a slow acting testosterone like enanthate for 60% of your cycle and then switch to prop for the last 3-4 weeks of your cycle. That way if you end up having issues taking prop, it won’t be so bad as you only need to tough it out for 3-4 weeks rather than 8-10 weeks of a full cycle. By the time you hit PCT the slow acting stuff should be out of your system, so hpta recovery should be pretty similar to a cycle of straight prop from week one.

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Hmm i don’t like the idea of mixing esthers esp on first cycle…but yea just trying to go abouts as safe as possible. Will not do dbol and was thinking of doing 125mg EOD the last 4 weeks of the cycle if all is well. Just now abit concerned about continue to make natural gains after the cycle. Any more feedback will be appreciated :slight_smile: