T Nation

Test Prop / Anavar First Cycle


#1

I'm new to this forum; this is my very first post. I've been browsing forums for a while now, and decided to join this one. T Nation appears to have very knowledgeable and helpful vets.

I've begun my 7 week test prop / var cycle. I'm 5 days in right now, +2 pounds (water weight, I know). Here's everything I'm running:

Test prop 150 mg EOD (1-7)
Anavar 25 mg ED (3-7)
Arimidex .25 mg ED (may switch to .5 EOD

PCT: Nolva 40/20/20/10

I also recently (about 4 months ago) had shoulder surgery to repair a torn labrum and rotator cuff. Surgery was early March. Soft tissue healing should be complete at this point--according to the doc--but I decided to throw var in to boost collagen synthesis, just to be on the safe side. I'm running the var mostly as a precaution for injury, not looking for it to add any extra strength or size gains.

Other stats:

Height: 6'3
Weight: 235
Bench: 285
Squat: 415
Power Clean: 295
Dead: 515
(maxes pre surgery, obviously -- I did pull 405 for 5 the other day, though.)

Goals for this cycle:

Reach 250 lbs
stay between 15-20% BF

So here are my questions:

I'm also running accutane 80mg ED for another 2 months. Should I get ahold of some TUDCA or UDCA to be safe, since I'll also add in var soon? Lipids have come back completely normal on monthly testing so far.

Is the nolva pct sufficient, or should I add clomid for this cycle as well?

Are my goals for this 7 week cycle realistic?

Thanks for the help, guys. Hope I provided enough info.


#2

Umm I had a torn labrum too. Slap tear…4 months is too soon to really push the weights IMO…6-9 months is when things really feel 100% I imagine you got anchors put in…Too soon for that type of cycle IMO…Try a plan thats moderate like 60-80% high reps low weights…low dose test & hgh over 6months…concentrate on heeling then run cycles…Dont get back on the slab bro that shitv hurts & is hella expensive


#3

I agree, 4 months is too soon to be pushing heavy weight with my shoulder.

That’s why I’m not going anywhere near real weight on bench, overhead press, or anything else involving shoulder work. Don’t want to risk it.

However, I can train legs as heavy and hard as I desire. I can also do speed work without any limitations. And in leu of pushing heavy weight with my upper body, I’ve got light weight, high volume hypertrophy routine that was OK’d by my PT (he actually helped write it) and ortho. I won’t even be attempting any bench press or overhead press over 50% of my max for at least another 3 months.

That’s kind of where I’m coming from… Of course, I don’t want to come across as one of those guys who posts solely for validation and deflects any criticisms immediately. I completely see where you’re coming from, and this is where I’m coming from on the issue.


#4

Totally get it… Loading the bar heavy on squats may put pressure on that shoulder. Also deads are gonna suffer. I worked legs a bunch when I did my shoulder… Leg press, single leg press, leg ext, leg curl, moderate squats & deads… Also a shit ton of calf & ab work… Work on pulling work too… i found face pulls really helped. Those rear delts will be taxed…use this time for mobility, flexibility, and increasing other areas.

Believe me you dont want any of those anchors to not take. i had to redo my slap so trust me Im saving you money and suffering here. Also cardio & diet…slim down & heal…You can hulk up later. I found my healing 2nd time that I got great leg size & finally had diamond cut calves


#5

I’m not going to get into whether or not your shoulder has healed properly… I’d rather just answer your question, and then ask a few of my own.

Your only goal stated was ‘can I gain 15 lbs without gaining much fat’ right? The answer to this is likely yes, especially if this is your first cycle (I don’t know if this is the case). You won’t retain that weight after you stop using, but for a short time, you’ll probably reach that goal.

My questions are as follows: why is this your goal? Are you an athlete? Are you a bodybuilder? powerlifter? strongman? non-competitive but trying to look good? These are the usual reasons why someone would run a steroid cycle, and I don’t see how temporarily adding 15 lbs to your bodyweight will serve any of these goals. You’re not strong enough to be competitive as a powerlifter or strongman in the weight class you’d have to enter, and this isn’t exactly a great cycle for a bodybuilder. Since you’re talking about your numbers in the big 3 though, and referencing percentages of your max and such, you SOUND like you want to be competitive in powerlifting. I don’t think this is the right approach for that goal.

If I’m right about your goal, my suggestion would be to do the opposite of what you’re suggesting, as long as you’re still healing from your injury. Get leaner, rather than heavier, until you’re able to start hitting the weights harder. Try to maintain or drop your weight while getting stronger. This will serve you much better in the long-run, and will prime you for opportunities to grow in the future, and maybe eventually put up reasonably competitive numbers.

I would also run the nolva at 20 for all 4 weeks. the taper down is not useful. TUDCA’s not a bad idea, it certainly won’t hurt to use it.


#6

flipcollar,

Thanks for the input, I greatly appreciate it.

I am a competitive athlete (football) and I’m a bit undersized for my position and level of competition, hence the goal of gaining 15 pounds. I’d like to try to take my athletic career to the next level, but it’s not going to happen at 235.

Also, pre op my BF was 14%, which is lower than I’d like it. I want it to stay in the 15-20% range for the purpose of longevity and injury prevention, plus the added mass is nice.

I listed the big 3 because powerlifting is an interest of mine, although I’m not competitive. I just do it for fun.

This is my first cycle, as well. Been training for quite some time, and like I said, I want to make it to the next level. I’ve done a lot of thinking and calculating the potential lifelong risks vs rewards.

Also, I was under the impression that size and strenght gained on gear is not lost after cycle…? I know you lose a lot of water weight once you’re off since E2 is back to normal, but I thought the muscles didn’t actually atrophy?


#7

hebrewhero,

Totally see what you’re talking about. One big advantage I have is that I’m actually close enough with my PT that he trains with me, and like I said, he helped me write the program I’m planning on. I raised a lot of the same concerns with him as you are now in regards to rate of recovery and how soon I can move weight.

He actually spent time with the University of Florida as a Strength coach for the football team, so I trust him 100% on this stuff. Although he doesn’t know I’m on gear, he does know what my goals are for the coming season.

I’ve been doing a lot of the same things you did post op. Lots of single leg squats, back ext, core work, calves, etc. And I did have anchors put in, mine was a bankart tear and slight rotator cuff repair, as well.

The shoulder is my only reason for throwing in var.

Also flipcollar, thanks for the insight on the pct, I’ve read studies from both sides, I think I will go 20/20/20/20, if I end up following through with the cycle.

Does anybody have any insight or experience with tane on gear? The internet is flooded with teens asking, “can I take epi and accutane at the same time?” But I haven’t been able to find much about injectables and tane.


#8

I take solodyn the dosage is based on weight…I take 115mg 1x per day Im 190lbs
Stuff works also try stinging nettle root


#9

[quote]oyweeilie wrote:
flipcollar,

Thanks for the input, I greatly appreciate it.

I am a competitive athlete (football) and I’m a bit undersized for my position and level of competition, hence the goal of gaining 15 pounds. I’d like to try to take my athletic career to the next level, but it’s not going to happen at 235.

Also, pre op my BF was 14%, which is lower than I’d like it. I want it to stay in the 15-20% range for the purpose of longevity and injury prevention, plus the added mass is nice.

I listed the big 3 because powerlifting is an interest of mine, although I’m not competitive. I just do it for fun.

This is my first cycle, as well. Been training for quite some time, and like I said, I want to make it to the next level. I’ve done a lot of thinking and calculating the potential lifelong risks vs rewards.

Also, I was under the impression that size and strenght gained on gear is not lost after cycle…? I know you lose a lot of water weight once you’re off since E2 is back to normal, but I thought the muscles didn’t actually atrophy?[/quote]

I’ll address the last part first. Yes, you lose strength/muscle over time, post cycle. Sometimes fairly quickly. If diet and training are good enough, it may take awhile, but eventually it’s all gone. This is why no one does just 1 cycle.

What level are you trying to get to? I don’t know how old you are, but those lifting stats in relation to that bodyweight make me think you’re in high school. Is that the case? And what position are you playing?

Either Wendler or Tate said the following (I can’t remember which guy it was, doesn’t matter much, they’re right): If you need steroids to get from high school to College level, you’ll never be a pro. If you need steroids to get from the College level to pro, you MIGHT make it but you won’t last for long. Just something to consider.


#10

flipcollar,

I’m a college DE. Ultimately, making the league is my big athletic goal, realistic or not. My goal setting philosophy is to pick goals that seem out of reach and try to achieve them. Ultimately, I know I’ll use gear down the road whether for recreation or competitive power lifting.


#11

hebrewhero,

Unfortunately, antibiotics no longer have any effect on my acne. My accutane is from a prescription, which means I had to go through the process of starting with weak antibiotics and working up to stronger ones… which in my case led to super resistant acne. The results so far have been great, my only concern is keeping lipid levels somewhat tolerable.