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Test P / D Bol - Cycle with Nolva


#1

Stats:
24y/o
6'8"
240lbs
13%BF

I do quite a bit of cardio every week (50 miles a week), and even with an increased diet my muscle mass is thinning out faster than I can keep it on.

I do strength training in the afternoons 3-4 days a week.

I was hoping with enough protein and a mild test p cycle I could put some of my muscle mass back on. Maybe kickstart with Dbol

WK1-12 150mg TestP EOD
WK1-3 15mg Dianabol ED
WK13 20Nolva EOD
WK14-15 20Nolva E3D

I'll have Nolva in reserve for PCT, but does anyone see any objections for a test only cycle?


#2

Id rather see you run
Test P 100mg/day for 9 weeks
than what you have planned. Shorter cycle better recovery and higher dose for better results


#3

[quote]soontobeIFBB wrote:
Id rather see you run
Test P 100mg/day for 9 weeks
than what you have planned. Shorter cycle better recovery and higher dose for better results[/quote]

x2

Also, instead of nolvadex you should use an AI.

15mg of Dbol is rather low. Will you even notice it if you run 500mg or more of test?


#4

Dont use nolva on cycle for estrogen management.

use adex or letro.

Use more dbol, atleast 30/day.

12 weeks is a little long, 8-10 weeks is probably preferable.


#5

I dont really want the water retention with higher D-bol dosages. I don’t think it’s totally necessary, but if it kicks off the test p then all the better.

If I go with

WK1-9 100mg Test P ED
WK1,2 25mg DBol ED

If I go with Aromasin as an AI should I stick with 20mg a day throughout the cycle? Seems a bit more expensive than doing a Nolva PCT. But that’s why I’m asking. Cause I’m not sure what’s best


#6

The biggest problem I can see is not dosing or SERMs vs AIs, but the fact that you are running 50miles per week and currently losing muscle.

240lbs sounds fine, but then I read 6’8"… That’s pretty skinny! Combined with the above issue I’d recommend that you at least begin to gain weight before you incorporate AAS. The reason being is that all they will do at this point is a) cause water retention so that you think you’re gaining actual bodyweight and b) help to merely slow your muscle loss.

AAS will definitely not turn a “losing” situation into a “gaining” situation. Your general lack of understanding suggests that you’ll be just another statistic to be used against intelligent, responsible users.

I know I sound like a party-pooper, but I urge you to reevaluate.


#7

Understood.

The cardio is not my choice, unfortunately. Physical Training. I’m very aware of my diet and what needs to change in it.

My normal daily Diet looks much like:
(Cardio 6-9 miles)
Breakfast: 1 Bowl Special K in Skim milk (or if I have time 2egg white omelet), 10oz skim milk with a scoop of Syntha-6
Snack:Granola Bar/Protein Bar
Lunch:Turkey/Chicken Deli Sandwich on wheat with low-fat cheese (no mayo or condiments)
(Strength Training + Cardio 2 miles)
Snack:Veggie slices and fat free ranch or fresh fruit in nonfat yogurt
Dinner: Grilled Chicken and Pasta or Lean Ground Beef and pasta.

I usually take 2 Hydroxycut Hardcore in the morning, 1 scoop NoXplode before afternoon workouts, and 1 scoop Anabolic Halo after dinner. Other than the weekends (much needed relaxing,) this is my daily schedule.

I’m wanting to add a clean gainer to my diet throughout the day to compensate, but I also don’t like feeling bogged down from the extra calories. It will take time for my gear to get here, so I’m working on the calorie balance before then.


#8

[quote]SPQA wrote:

I usually take 2 Hydroxycut Hardcore in the morning[/quote]

What?
Why?
Aren’t you struggling to get enough calories as it is?


#9

[quote]SPQA wrote:
Understood.

The cardio is not my choice, unfortunately. Physical Training. I’m very aware of my diet and what needs to change in it.

My normal daily Diet looks much like:
(Cardio 6-9 miles)
Breakfast: 1 Bowl Special K in Skim milk (or if I have time 2egg white omelet), 10oz skim milk with a scoop of Syntha-6
Snack:Granola Bar/Protein Bar
Lunch:Turkey/Chicken Deli Sandwich on wheat with low-fat cheese (no mayo or condiments)
(Strength Training + Cardio 2 miles)
Snack:Veggie slices and fat free ranch or fresh fruit in nonfat yogurt
Dinner: Grilled Chicken and Pasta or Lean Ground Beef and pasta.

I usually take 2 Hydroxycut Hardcore in the morning, 1 scoop NoXplode before afternoon workouts, and 1 scoop Anabolic Halo after dinner. Other than the weekends (much needed relaxing,) this is my daily schedule.

I’m wanting to add a clean gainer to my diet throughout the day to compensate, but I also don’t like feeling bogged down from the extra calories. It will take time for my gear to get here, so I’m working on the calorie balance before then.[/quote]

Special K? Low-fat cheese? Nonfat yoghurt? Hydroxycut? “Clean” gainer? Bogged down??? Argh.

I’m honestly not trying to be a cock (it comes naturally, lol), but if you think the diet listed above is anywhere near ok, then you are sorely mistaken. It just about looks passable for a non-training person, and is absolutely atrocious for a 6’8" individual trying to gain mass.

AAS will not help you at the moment. You will waste time, money, and probably your health (based on your understanding thus far, not due to any inherent “badness” of AAS).


#10

Apologies. I re-read your diet a little more closely, and it’s actually terrible even for a non-training person.


#11

I’m a blatant cock on the otherhand. OP, 15mg will do nothing, IMO. Try 35mg ED. At 6’8 and 240lbs you’ve got alot of work ahead of you, methinks. Damn and I thought I was screwed at 6’2. The amount of calories you eat in a day, I eat by midmorning.

I might be stretching it, but mate that isn’t enough for someone to put on mass on your scale. Why are you taking a “fat burner”. 3 solids and 2 snacky poos.

Dude, I mean come on mate 2 egg white omelet? I know women that eat more than you. Not beating you down mate but you definetly have to rework the diet. You don’t want water retention but want to run test? I have no first hand exp. with prop but regardless it will aromatise and it will lead to some sort of water retention.

With AI admin it will be reduced, but yet again (beating the dying horse) at your size any weight gain should be welcome if your serious enough about your training and physique goals that you’re considering adding AAS.

If I were you I would rework the diet. Add at least 1500-2000kcals to it. That alone will be anabolic enough to put some mass on you. Cheers


#12

A little history.

My last thread previous to this (mid 2008) I was

260lbs
at 16 or 17% bodyfat.

I didn’t post numbers for calories or strength but my goal was to maintain as much strength and cut BF to 12 or 13 percent. I’m really close to being where I want to be “cut” wise and I’m not sure I want to lose that.

My stats when I deployed (nov 2007) were ridiculous. I was 221lbs and 18% bodyfat. All I did was cardio and the fat wasn’t coming off because I didn’t watch my diet versus the amount of cardio we did. I did zee-roow weight training at the time.

I went from being able to hardly put up 165lbs on the bench with a spot in early January 2008. (embarassingly weak) By September 2008 I was 260lbs 15-16%BF putting up 315lbs 1RM. (obviously bench wasn’t my only concern, but just to show the progress I made in 10 months - it’s my example)

Maybe I’m thinking about it wrong, but when I was training I took a Dbol only cycle (15-20mg a day for 4 weeks in August 2008) towards the end of my 10 month training plan for deployment. The drive to workout and eat 4 full meals a day increased substantially when I was taking Dbol and doing strength training.

Is it a wrong train of thought to think my body won’t respond naturally to the test and dbol and increase the urge for more calories
like before?

I’m not saying I’m opposed to changing my diet at all. I’m just saying that I personally feel the need to think, re-think, and over-think any changes I’m making to it.

Maybe I should have posted in the diet section first, but I’d rather have your guys’ opinions about it from this section.

For the record, I don’t think anyone is being a dick. I totally respect the advice you guys have put forth because you’ve been there, and I haven’t.

(As for the Hydroxycut, It’s mostly an energy thing for the mornings - I get up at 5am every morning. Yeah, I got it - thermogenics - but it helps me keep my BF% in check. I guess I’m being stubborn.)

(low-fat/non-fat. I’m not opposed to the calories from protein and carbs, but I’m selective about taking in any more fat than is absolutely necessary. Even in low-fat/protein bars/dinner I can still guarantee I get 100% of daily fat intake if I were on a 2500cal diet.)


#13

We don’t need history or anything, the point is that you are not eating enough NOW. This is not complicated.

In the post above you still sound like one of “them”. By that I mean the general public who run away from fats and do crunches to “lose my belly”. I know you didn’t actually say that, but it’s the very strong impression that I’m getting.

The anabolic diet (Dr. Mauro Di Pasquale) is probably the last thing you need right now, but I suggest you read it anyway to clear up some of this fat-phobia you seem to have.

Honestly, I’d even say that taking creatine is a case of putting the cart before the horse in your situation. By all means take AAS, it’s your body. But you WILL regret it if you don’t get your progress/understanding sorted first.

To the beginner’s section please…


#14

The fat fear is merely keeping my pubescent gyno at bay. I went from 6’2 to 6’5 in one summer when I was 15. My body didnt adjust well to sudden drop in natural test after the growth spurt.

I’m not a fad diet kind of person. Don’t get me wrong, I’d love to rock a 6 pack all year long, but I hardly ever do crunches as it is. I have to do abs for the sit-up portion of my APFT, but in strength training - I do Squats, deadlifts, and romanian dumbell presses for core strength. That’s where I got most of my results.

I was literally eating 3500-4500/day easy for strength training. I don’t fear calories. I’ll read up on the anabolic diet, and maybe I am looking for the fast answer over the right answer.

Excuse my ignorance, I’ll excuse the condescendence.

Remember, I’m not the 16 year old trying to make the Varsity squad. I’m a multi-tour combat veteran who gets little time to get it right between 15 month sandbox trips.

Your opinions are valued, and maybe I’ve got Descarte before the horse…


#15

“The fat fear is merely keeping my pubescent gyno at bay. I went from 6’2 to 6’5 in one summer when I was 15. My body didnt adjust well to sudden drop in natural test after the growth spurt.”

Highlights a major misunderstanding in well… biology. We’ve all been there at some point but please please please educate yourself a little before dreaming of anything as serious as AAS. You ARE hurting your progress and your health by not including fats, and introducing AAS into this sorry state of affairs will only make matters worse.

Educating yourself is not easy, I don’t mean to sound harsh. There is a lot of crap out there regarding nutrition, and it can be hard for a beginner to differentiate fact from fiction. Unfortunately there is a lot of trial and error involved.

As for excusing the condescendence, thank you ever so much.


#16

Not to butt in but I think there is a misunderstanding between consuming dietary fat and body fat accumulation.


#17

You gots to eat with a Jewish New Yorker accent Plain and fucking simple. Eat, and lift. Thats it, theres no secret to it. If the proper stimulus is there you shouldn’t fear fat gain. Maybe its just me. On a side note, Dave…I want your back.


#18

This guy is so screwed he needs to completely redo his program, his diet, and his knowledge on even the basics of health and fitness.

You dont need steroids you need to read twenty or thirty articles on this site.

Your basically doing everything wrong.


#19

So I’m obviously not ready for AAS. Got it.

Thanks for the help.

Guess there’s so many people (normally young kids) who are willing to screw themselves up that your response is mostly a slap in the face.

Maybe there’s more than one way to fitness and health. Obviously that way isn’t good for anabolic growth (as per the responses).

In the Army’s Physical Fitness test - 2 mile run, 2 minutes pushups, 2 minutes sit ups. That’s how physical fitness is measured. Maybe it’s skewed versus reality, but when I score over 100 in each individual category I think I’m doing ok.

If you’re too worried that I’m that guy that’s going to be just another reason for people to frown upon steroids I understand. Other than that, and Dave’s advice with where to meet diet and growth demands first, I’ve been biting my tongue.

I’m absolutely disciplined in what I need to do. When I make the necessary changes for a decent amount of time - I’ll re-evaluate my decision to choose when to try AAS.


#20

After a bit of reading and a good trip to the grocery store I’ve definitely done an overhaul to my diet.

This may not be the best forum to post on, but my eventual goal is to do an AAS cycle, not for mass or bulk, but for strength and definition.

If you veterans can critique this new diet, I’d very much appreciate it. Overall, I’ve added about 1200 calories per day and in the last 3 days have really noticed an improvement in my rebounds (even to my cardio.)

Morning:
Fat burner
(5-10 Miles Carb Depleted Run)
2 Bowls Fiber One w/ 2% Milk
1 Tru-Mass Shake
1 Banana

Snack:
Low Fat Vanilla Yogurt w/ fresh fruit (Banana, Strawberries, Grapes, Honeydew, and Cantalope)
Fiber One Protein Bar

Lunch:
Turkey Sandwich on wheat with extra virgin olive oil and vinegarette, and American (2%)
Multigrain Pasta and 3oz shredded chicken breast
G2 8oz’er

(1 scoop NoXplode w/ G2 - Afternoon weight training 1-1.5hr)

Snack:
Trumass shake
Shot of extra virgin olive oil

Dinner:
Multigrain pasta with full chicken breast or 1lb 93% lean ground beef. Diced tomatoes and green peppers in sauce
10oz Milk 2%
6oz V8

Snack:
2 Hardboiled eggs and albacore tuna with light mayo.
1 shot of extra virgin olive oil

Obviously, there’s still some more room for improvement, but these are my first steps. Now that I’m back from overseas I have a little more control over my diet. My goal is to add 20lbs of muscle before I even consider AAS.

Natural Goal:
260lbs
10-11%BF

While deployed I was on a very dirty bulk and reached 265 at 15%BF. I’m still concerned about the mild gyno that occurs when I’m over 15%BF, but I can definitely see the changes thus far are a vast improvement to my body’s functioning.

P.S. Thanks for being jerks. I’m stubborn.